Cape mountain zebra

[Dicerorhinus]

I think the "Quagga Project" is another example of a miss-guided and irrelevant "conservation" (“Barbary Lions”)

There are many endangered species/sub-species which could benefit from these resources should they be re-allocated.

 

[Maguari]

I think the "Quagga Project" is another example of a miss-guided and irrelevant "conservation" (“Barbary Lions”)

There are many endangered species/sub-species which could benefit from these resources should they be re-allocated.

In fairness to the Quagga Project, there's nothing to say the funds would go to conservation if reallocated. I've no idea where their funding is from, but it may well be corporate sponsors or goverment resarch funds - in which case it would probably not be used directly for conservation if the Quagga Project were to be stopped.

In any case - the argument of 'there's better things to spend money on' is a bit of weak one, in my mind. Where does it end? We could spend loads on conservation with money spent on (say) the Queen's Birthday celebrations for a decade, or the Olympics, or the Arts Council budget, or the European Space Program. But we do these things because humans get pleasure from them, or they broaden our understanding, or encourage development in other areas (education, employment...). In any case - there's plenty would argue that the money shouldn't go to conservation anyway, but used to fight poverty in southern Africa. And once you have that argument, why spend money repairing city roads when people are hungry? Why spend money on public schools? It's an endless argument. There will always be massive amounts of money spent on 'non-essentials' such as these, because the cultural benefits are there.

If there are scientists interested to see if they can breed something close to a Quagga and they've bene able to fund it then I say power to them.

 

[Pertinax]

I tend to agree with Pertinax in that what they are breeding are Damara Zebras with fewer stripes which might end up looking similar to a Quagga .

Quagga had a rich chestnut brown body colouration which the Project admit they have not succeeded in introducing at all yet. But I think the Quagga's coat pattern was unique to this 'race' and not at all the same as other zebras- it was almost an 'inversion' i.e. the neck stripes(also brown, not black) had very narrow white(almost Bongo -like) bands in between. The broad black and white banding on Damara Zebras' body, head and neck is quite different.
I do think this is an interesting project but all the scientific measuring of reduced striping etc isn't going to lead them to the original, I don't think.

 

[Jurek7]

Quaggas were variable. The specimen of female from Mainz for example is more striped than some of bred animals:
The Quagga Project :: South Africa

I wonder how project quaggas will look in few years time. So far, they bred only 3-4 generations and achieved very visible result.

Anyway, the website gives contact info and lists of reserves where animals are kept. I would also be very interesed in report from the field

 

[Pertinax]

Quaggas were variable. The specimen of female from Mainz for example is more striped than some of bred animals:
The Quagga Project :: South Africa

I wonder how project quaggas will look in few years time. So far, they bred only 3-4 generations and achieved very visible result.

The Quagga in Tring Museum, UK, is another of the 'striped' Quaggas. But it is still completely different to Damaraland Zebras.

There is one animal(see photos in Quagga Project website) that has been produced so far which is completely stripeless on the hindquarters. It is a very visible result but I don't think it takes them nearer to the appearance of the original Quaggas. I cannot see how they can achieve that from the existing stocks.

 

[Dicerorhinus]

In fairness to the Quagga Project, there's nothing to say the funds would go to conservation if reallocated. I've no idea where their funding is from, but it may well be corporate sponsors or goverment resarch funds - in which case it would probably not be used directly for conservation if the Quagga Project were to be stopped.

In any case - the argument of 'there's better things to spend money on' is a bit of weak one, in my mind. Where does it end? We could spend loads on conservation with money spent on (say) the Queen's Birthday celebrations for a decade, or the Olympics, or the Arts Council budget, or the European Space Program. But we do these things because humans get pleasure from them, or they broaden our understanding, or encourage development in other areas (education, employment...). In any case - there's plenty would argue that the money shouldn't go to conservation anyway, but used to fight poverty in southern Africa. And once you have that argument, why spend money repairing city roads when people are hungry? Why spend money on public schools? It's an endless argument. There will always be massive amounts of money spent on 'non-essentials' such as these, because the cultural benefits are there.

If there are scientists interested to see if they can breed something close to a Quagga and they've bene able to fund it then I say power to them.

Im not sure I understand your argument. Most applicable governments/NGOs have budgeted resources which for various reasons are but allocated to conservation; these are finite. Projects like this will(and again im not sure where the funding comes from) divert funding/man power away from more urgent causes.

Unfortunately a lack of funding plagues almost every mid-level conservation program. In truth im not sure where the funding is coming from for this but I do know that both sub-species of Mountain Zebra need work. With a population in decline and no research being conducted into why captive breeding is failing. If (for example the funding was coming from SANParks) it would be directly channelling money away from Brown Hyena research (among many others).

Investing time and expense to create a Chapman’s Zebra with a phenotype similar to that of a Quagga is utterly senseless (Yes I know the Quagga is a Sub-Species).

Regarding your last sentence, I doubt any self respecting scientist would be seen anywhere near this project (at least I hope).

 

[Chlidonias]

Im not sure I understand your argument. Most applicable governments/NGOs have budgeted resources which for various reasons are but allocated to conservation; these are finite. Projects like this will(and again im not sure where the funding comes from) divert funding/man power away from more urgent causes.

Unfortunately a lack of funding plagues almost every mid-level conservation program. In truth im not sure where the funding is coming from for this but I do know that both sub-species of Mountain Zebra need work. With a population in decline and no research being conducted into why captive breeding is failing. If (for example the funding was coming from SANParks) it would be directly channelling money away from Brown Hyena research (among many others).

Investing time and expense to create a Chapman’s Zebra with a phenotype similar to that of a Quagga is utterly senseless (Yes I know the Quagga is a Sub-Species).

Regarding your last sentence, I doubt any self respecting scientist would be seen anywhere near this project (at least I hope).

you really are opinionated aren't you? From your posts everything appears to be simple black and white in your world. I personally agree with you that the attempt to bring back the quagga is pointless (all they're doing to my mind is trying to breed zebras that look like quaggas, and where's the point in that). However, if you are going to argue about something at least do a couple of minute's research on Google. The Quagga Project gets NO funding from the government, it is entirely funded by donations and sponsorships, largely from businesses and hunting groups. It is in no way drawing money away from legitimate conservation efforts because the money (probably) would simply not be provided for those. The only funds that have come from SANP were for translocation of animals to the Karoo.

And regarding your last sentence, is your view of the world really that blinkered? For the record there are a number of "scientists" in connection with the project. Have a look at the project's history and current operation.

 

[Dicerorhinus]

you really are opinionated aren't you? From your posts everything appears to be simple black and white in your world. I personally agree with you that the attempt to bring back the quagga is pointless (all they're doing to my mind is trying to breed zebras that look like quaggas, and where's the point in that). However, if you are going to argue about something at least do a couple of minute's research on Google. The Quagga Project gets NO funding from the government, it is entirely funded by donations and sponsorships, largely from businesses and hunting groups. It is in no way drawing money away from legitimate conservation efforts because the money (probably) would simply not be provided for those. The only funds that have come from SANP were for translocation of animals to the Karoo.

And regarding your last sentence, is your view of the world really that blinkered? For the record there are a number of "scientists" in connection with the project. Have a look at the project's history and current operation.

?

Im sure I said I dont know where the funding comes from and used SANP as an example. I certainly wasn't suggesting the government had anything to do with it.

A considerbale amount of the money that has helped see SWR boom in South Africa came from the private sources you state.

Can you tell me where they have been published ?

 

[Maguari]

Im not sure I understand your argument. Most applicable governments/NGOs have budgeted resources which for various reasons are but allocated to conservation; these are finite. Projects like this will(and again im not sure where the funding comes from) divert funding/man power away from more urgent causes.

My point is exactly as Chlidonias points out:

The Quagga Project gets NO funding from the government, it is entirely funded by donations and sponsorships, largely from businesses and hunting groups. It is in no way drawing money away from legitimate conservation efforts because the money (probably) would simply not be provided for those.

The project is drawing funds from sources that would not be providing finance for conservation anyway. AND it's leading to the protection of large areas of scrubland as refuges for smaller animals.

Regarding your last sentence, I doubt any self respecting scientist would be seen anywhere near this project (at least I hope).

Why would no 'self-respecting' scientist be involved? It's (scientifically speaking) potentially a very interesting project.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

My point is exactly as Chlidonias points out:



The project is drawing funds from sources that would not be providing finance for conservation anyway. AND it's leading to the protection of large areas of scrubland as refuges for smaller animals.



Why would no 'self-respecting' scientist be involved? It's (scientifically speaking) potentially a very interesting project.

Again, I tend to agree with Dicerorhinus on conservation budgets (which are tight by any standards). I am familiar with the project and the Quagga breed back .... (it is said to be merely a mutative gene and not a subspecific issue ... although more research in zebra taxa would be called for as recently E.African and S.African plains have been identified as having significant separate genetic make-up).

I would also appreciate reverting to the original subject matter of the thread ... which is Cape Mountain Zebra - a species (along with the second Mountain Zebra ssp.) requires significant research attention from both ex situ and in situ managers. A more robust species recovery programme for both is called for. PHVA et cetera and species plans need to be developed by SANPARKS and Namibian conservation agency.

Can you please transfer the Quagga discussion into a separate thread please, Sim/Mark????

 

[Bele]

South Africa Trip

Back from an exciting trip to South Africa . I did get to see some Cape Mountain Zebra in the Bontebok National Park - a few pictures in the South Africa - Wildlife - Gallery . An interesting day spent with an English guy who had previously managed the Bontebok NP and had since set up a one-man tour business . He knew the Park inside out and showed us fascinating fauna and flora .

There is a picture of the Quagga foal in the Cape Town Museum on the South Africa - Other - Gallery .

The only collection visited was the excellent Two Oceans aquarium in Cape Town . Highlights were a big living Kelp Forest tank and another with about a dozen Giant Spider Crabs - most of the other exhibits were local to the South African Atlantic and Indian Oceans . There are many small animal attractions along tourist routes - similar to the USA I imagine .

The bird life was amazing . Friends we stayed with near Knysna live in ancient woodland with a herd of Bushbuck resident to the housing estate . Amongst the many birds coming to their feed station were Knysna Touraco , several sunbird species , white-eyes , Cape weavers , Fork-tailed Drongoes , Black-headed oriole , Cape bulbul , Olive thrush . Hadeda ibis ( very common ) , Guineafowl and Spotted thick-knees were seen on the ground .

 

[MARK]

Is there any idea on the zebra numbers in the park?

 

[Bele]

There are about 50 Zebra in the Park , Mark . They were very inbred with health issues but new stallions were introduced which solved the problem . They apparently keep away from the areas of the Park where most vistors frequent . After driving around for ages we finally found the group of about 10 in a quiet corner . They did not seem over-concerned by the vehicle . I asked if I could get out to get better photos but was told they would be off immediately if I did . They were quite spread out , certainly not in a tight herd , not certain of the sex ratio , no small foals though one mare looked to be very pregnant .

 

[700]

What is d major threat to d survival of zebras

 

[^Chris^]

I am off to Cape Town on holiday in April . It seems that Cape Mountain Zebras can be found in quite a few reserves in the area so it is one species I certainly hope to see .
Unfortunately it is the wrong season for Whale Watching and I am certainly not intending to go Great White Shark cage diving .

There appears to be a good Aquarium in Cape Town -The Two Oceans Aquarium - but no other particularly exciting captive collections . I am a bit wary about some of the safari attractions in the area - all of the large mammals they have are brought as they were hunted out from the area long ago .

Have any Zoochatters got experience of a visit ?

Sorry to be a bit late on this one, but I was lucky enough to see Cape Mountain Zebra last summer in Mountain Zebra NP in Eastern Cape. They have a fairly large population there I believe (hence the park's name) but for some reason that is beyond me they also have a deliberately introduced population of Plain's zebras. I don't know if they hybridize but I suppose they can. It seems stupid to me.

It's a good national park though, I recommend it. Amazing habitat-a sort of Africa I'd not seen on TV before. I may have some pictures somewhere. Missed cheetah but apparently they have them there.

Glad you've had a good time, Bele. I'm desperate to go back to SA, I absolutely loved it.

 

[Tim May]

Sorry to be a bit late on this one, but I was lucky enough to see Cape Mountain Zebra last summer in Mountain Zebra NP in Eastern Cape. They have a fairly large population there I believe (hence the park's name) but for some reason that is beyond me they also have a deliberately introduced population of Plain's zebras. I don't know if they hybridize but I suppose they can. It seems stupid to me.

Yes plains zebras and mountain zebras can hybridise; zoo born hybrids have been recorded. This has been discussed on another thread:-

http://www.zoochat.com/43/cape-mountain-zebra-hybrid-foal-144560/

I think it unlikely, though, that the two would hybridise when mates of their own species were present.

 

[^Chris^]

Yes plains zebras and mountain zebras can hybridise; zoo born hybrids have been recorded. This has been discussed on anther thread:-

http://www.zoochat.com/43/cape-mountain-zebra-hybrid-foal-144560/

I think it unlikely, though, that the two would hybridise when mates of their own species were present.

I assumed that to be the case. We saw mountain zebra and the plains grazing side by side but I hope you're right that they won't hybridize.

 

[Pertinax]

I assumed that to be the case. We saw mountain zebra and the plains grazing side by side but I hope you're right that they won't hybridize.

They won't hybridise if they have their own kind. Hartmann's & Damara(plains)Zebra are sometimes found together in Etosha, and Grevys/Grants(plains) together in some areas of the Grevy range, when they can even associate in 'mixed' herds(but remaining seperate within those herds) but without hybridisation taking place.

The social dynamics of all three species are sufficiently different to (normally) prevent such an occurrence.