Werribee Open Range Zoo Changes at Weribee Zoo! (lions)

[m575]

So as people may have heard / seen, there is now only one lioness remaining. The other two died recently from age related illness. So what does this mean? Well for starters, the males now dominate the front section, female at rear... but the better news? Seems WORZ had a ban on breeding due to space and 'fear' of males. Well, due to the recent events, I've got a hunch that breeding may begin early...

 

[Steve Robinson]

What does "'fear' of males" mean please?

 

[PAT]

I think it has something to do with finding housing for extra male cubs. I would like to see some breeding at Werribee but their exhibit isn't the best for that sort of thing and on Zoolex there is a photo of just how steep the exhibit sides are.

 

[phoenix]

i assume "fear" of likely even of male births that can't be housed long term. zoos victoria already has six male lions between melbourne and werribee.

 

[m575]

correcto about the males. Yes, I assume some changes will be made to the enclosure.. and I think first 'male and female encounters' will happen off display.

 

[CGSwans]

I don't see that the risk of cubs being primarily males should be a huge problem. There is surely no great shortage of places for male lions to go. The list of zoos keeping lions in the region is as long as your arm - Taronga, Dubbo, Melbourne, Werribee, Monarto, Perth, Auckland, Wellington, Orana, Cairns, Canberra, Mogo, Darling Downs, Mansfield, Richmond, Darwin... not to mention places like Australia Zoo, Altina and even Nowra that have expressed an interest in acquiring lions.

Having said that, it is of course irresponsible to breed unless they know that a zoo will take any male off-spring. Perhaps the lack of females in Victoria can be made up from somewhere like Mogo or Cairns, which each have an abundance of lions.

 

[m575]

I haven't looked into it, but don't most of the Zoo's you mentioned already have males? If that's the case, then it's a no go. On top of this, WORZ would be a bit paticular in which zoo's THEY'D want the cubs to goto, though this shouldn't be an issue. Finally, they have been waiting to breed, so it was in the plans anyway Also, I do believe it's cheaper / easier to breed than to buy :} (maybe not cheaper)

 

[CGSwans]

I haven't looked into it, but don't most of the Zoo's you mentioned already have males? If that's the case, then it's a no go. On top of this, WORZ would be a bit paticular in which zoo's THEY'D want the cubs to goto, though this shouldn't be an issue. Finally, they have been waiting to breed, so it was in the plans anyway Also, I do believe it's cheaper / easier to breed than to buy :} (maybe not cheaper)

Another point that I should have made in my previous post is that Werribee has absolutely no shortage of space. They, like the other open range zoos, should be taking responsibility for building up the spaces available for managed species by building off-display enclosures for surplus animals. Making them off-display means making them much cheaper, and it will certainly be to the benefit of the species in Australia.

Now, it's quite possible that lions aren't in need of any such action at the moment - I know, for instance, that more than 20 individuals are entering the ARAZPA system at Cairns. I have no doubt that Werribee will be able to acquire the 2-3 females that it would be seeking. But we shouldn't be ignoring the abundance of space available at the three statutory open range zoos for maintaining larger numbers of managed species.

 

[m575]

Funny you should say that. That is basically the direction WORZ seems to be taking. All about protecting and conserving animals, in particular endagered species.. ie, Oryx, Bandicoot, przewalski.. And it's true, it seems there are enough lions now, but I do believe they are getting old and we could see a sudden drop.. ie, Werribee lost two in a matter of months.. the four at Melbourne will go around the same time as well.. so better to prepare now than be sorry later!

 

[jay]

Aren't the four males at Melbourne the brothers of the remaining females at Werribee. Would this make them around 10 years of age?

 

[Monty]

Why would the zoos not just donk the male cubs on the heads at birth, if there is no place for them.

I am sick of this political correctness bull. Who cares if a few Greens supporters get upset, they are against zoos anyway.

 

[m575]

" Aren't the four males at Melbourne the brothers of the remaining females at Werribee. Would this make them around 10 years of age?"

Remaining female .. umm possibly. I think Gespah (?) was the mother of the four at melbourne and the two / or one of at werribee. So not sure.....

"Why would the zoos not just donk the male cubs on the heads at birth, if there is no place for them.

I am sick of this political correctness bull. Who cares if a few Greens supporters get upset, they are against zoos anyway."

That defeats the purpose of conservation..

 

[jay]

Why would the zoos not just donk the male cubs on the heads at birth, if there is no place for them.

I am sick of this political correctness bull. Who cares if a few Greens supporters get upset, they are against zoos anyway.

I think you would find that it would be a bit more than a few greens that would protest. Didn't you learn anything from the ruckus over the dubbo selling antelope furor?

 

[phoenix]

sheesh, this is quite a topic.

jay - i'm pretty sure you are correct. i remember there being five cubs born four males, one female. the males stayed at melbourne, the female went to werribee and two new males were brought in form auckland (i think) to join the werribee "pride". this makes teh lone female full sibling of melbournes animals - but i'm pretty sure the plan was to eventually breed her to tonya and tombi (?).

monty - i'm no animal liberationist but i am a greenie. and yes, i vote green. i hate that a few renegades in the party keep sticking their uneducated nose in issues that only helps to polarise the party from the mainstream public (by reinforcing the unfair image of a greenie being an animal loving tree hugging hippie) - however i am TOTALLY AGAINST euthanasia as a population management tool and i think that ARAZPA needs to draw up some more appropriate policies regarding such, where they draw a line and stick to it.

putting down baby lion cubs is a great way of gaining some mainstream negative press and it'll be with more than just a greenie or two.

anyhow. there are so many possibilities regarding what werribee may or may not do that i wonder the point of even speculating. whatever happens it'll be at the recommendation of the studbook keeper oh, and

m575 - ARAZPA zoos don't sell eachother animals, especially not common ones such as lions.

 

[m575]

I'm not sure about the story behind the males, I can't remember.. but there was three.. Dad and the two boys..... I wont pretend to know anything about trading between zoos but I will say this is a little more than speculation

 

[jay]

I think you would find that it would be a bit more than a few greens that would protest. Didn't you learn anything from the ruckus over the dubbo selling antelope furor?

I would like to add to my comment before I am accussed, quite rightly of sloppy arguement.

I think that we can say that for the majority of urban Australians that the idea of euthanising otherwise perfectly healthy cubs simply because they were the wrong gender is simply unacceptable.
If a zoo was to do such a thing then the RSPCA would have to investigate the zoo for its practices.
For a zoo to breed cubs knowing that they couldn't provide adequate homes if they were male, and then killing the unwanted ones is unethical.

 

[Monty]

I believe conservation is the sustainable use of resources. I place more value on the population as a whole than the individual. I believe zoos already do this with other species. The Blackbuck for example are in herds at zoos with a lower % of males. Are those missing males not already euthanized.

In the wild male cubs have higher death rates than females as they are forced out of prides as they mature, and in a constant battle to either take another males pride or protect their own pride. Zoos are an unnatural environment and due to this the gender balance is upset. What I proposed is a humane solution which is far from the pain and suffering of the natural system. I believe our society has divorced most people from the reality of nature and death, which gives unrealistic expectations.

monty - i'm no animal liberationist but i am a greenie. and yes, i vote green. i hate that a few renegades in the party keep sticking their uneducated nose in issues that only helps to polarise the party from the mainstream public (by reinforcing the unfair image of a greenie being an animal loving tree hugging hippie)

I consider myself a Greeny, but not the political party as they are only green on the outside, red under the skin. I fence off areas for revegetation and plant trees. In my time off I camp and walk in the bush and protect our native species by killing introduced pests. This also reduces my carbon output as I can the provide my own organic free range meat. I am having rabbits for tea tomorrow.

 

[CGSwans]

Monty, ultimately zoos, whether public institutions or privately owned, need to be responsive to the expectations of the community. And people will not accept the idea of breeding animals and then euthanising the ones that turn out to have the wrong reproductive organs. That's pretty much what it comes down to.

 

[m575]

I believe conservation is the sustainable use of resources.

In terms of zoos, it's about building up numbers. This is the whole reason why they have been waiting to breed. They knew they couldn't handle any males, so they didn't do it.. but now that the tables have turned, if more males come, it'll be fine. So as long as it's preplanned and thought through, there is no need to cull the cubs. And it's true that in the wild lion cubs have a higher death rate.. but it's also true that people go out and hunt them, or for example, other animals, and ultimately kill them. You can't really sit there and say that poachers are 'evil' but zoos killing males because they don't want to find the space are ok.. ?

 

[boof]

And people will not accept the idea of breeding animals and then euthanising the ones that turn out to have the wrong reproductive organs. .

I would have no problem with it. Monty's argument makes sense.