Noah's Ark Zoo Farm Creationist Zoo causes dismay

[CZJimmy]

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Bristol | 'Creationist' zoo causes dismay

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It appears that some other people share similar views to those on this forum about Noah's Ark

 

[zoogiraffe]

Quote from the report "Tourism body Visit England has said it only checks the zoo under its Visitor Quality Assurance Scheme and has no opinion on content."
I dread to think what sort of quality they check for as this is the only zoo in the U.K I would not be sorry to see closed!!!!

 

[James27]

I think they judge it as an attraction, not on enclosure quality etc which most of the gripes have been on. My aunty called it "lovely" the other day...

 

[zoogiraffe]

I think they judge it as an attraction, not on enclosure quality etc which most of the gripes have been on. My aunty called it "lovely" the other day...

Lovely is not a word I would ever use to describe the place,have to admit the Childrens play areas are good but the rest of it is about as bad as it gets in the U.K.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I suppose that at Noahs Ark their philosophy seems more prominent than animal welfare or good husbandry and management.

I would not qualify that as lovely .... at all! Given the vehemence with which some animal welfare activists "attack" zoos and given some respected members on this forums' private beliefs on this matter ... lovely is kinda peculiar ... don't you think?

 

[karenZOO]

Treads carefully not to offend anyones beliefs!

But why were they then trying to 'play god' with that poor tiger cub! Surely as another zoo did (sorry hopeless at details) over with the polar bear cub, shouldn't it have been left with its mother, as natures way!!

Surely they would also only need 2 of each animal!

 

[CiaranDUK]

How on Earth can you have a zoo that believes in a creationist and design?! That completely goes against what all other Zoos have been teaching (especially since Darwin's 200th!) I would hate to be a Keeper there and feel very sorry for the Keepers that are there!

Look at this! The Noah's Ark story @ Noah's Ark Zoo Farm

Now even if the theme of the Zoo IS Noah and the Ark - which is fine - they should NOT be telling the story of the how the Ark came to be and about the Flood. This will confuse children that are now taught about Evolution in school.

EDIT: I have seen the funniest thing ever look at this link of the animals at the Noah's Ark Farm Zoo, http://www.noahsarkzoofarm.co.uk/pages/visiting/attractions/animals.php , and scroll down to 'Y' hahaha, you'll know what I'm talking about.

 

[johnstoni]

For starters, I am an atheist.

But to who exactly does Noah's Ark Zoo Farm cause 'dismay'? To the humanist association? The only people who are criticising it in the article. Fine, on this forum there are many legitimate criticisms of the place, but the premise for this article is that a representative of a group who are always going to be opposed to creationist teachings thinks that, what, the zoo shouldn't exist?

The equivalent would be a general article about a zoo causing 'dismay' to an animal rights group for continuing to suggest they are contributing to conservation.

I would rather live in a country where you are free to express your views than be told to shut up if your view isn't popular. I believe in evolution and would choose to take my family to Bristol zoo if I lived that way, but obviously 120,000 visitors are making a different choice every year.

Things have a way of working themselves out though, when the NCWP opens Noahs Ark had better get their animal welfare up to scratch if they are to survive alongside them. That said, NCWP had better come up with a good play area ; )

Has anyone thought of lodging a complaint with BIAZA if they have seen anything which breaks guidelines in terms of animal husbandry?

 

[redpanda]

For starters, I am an atheist.

But to who exactly does Noah's Ark Zoo Farm cause 'dismay'? To the humanist association? The only people who are criticising it in the article. Fine, on this forum there are many legitimate criticisms of the place, but the premise for this article is that a representative of a group who are always going to be opposed to creationist teachings thinks that, what, the zoo shouldn't exist?

The equivalent would be a general article about a zoo causing 'dismay' to an animal rights group for continuing to suggest they are contributing to conservation.

I would rather live in a country where you are free to express your views than be told to shut up if your view isn't popular. I believe in evolution and would choose to take my family to Bristol zoo if I lived that way, but obviously 120,000 visitors are making a different choice every year.

Things have a way of working themselves out though, when the NCWP opens Noahs Ark had better get their animal welfare up to scratch if they are to survive alongside them. That said, NCWP had better come up with a good play area ; )

Has anyone thought of lodging a complaint with BIAZA if they have seen anything which breaks guidelines in terms of animal husbandry?

I think the problem comes when the zoo promotes these ideas as fact. I apologise if anyone finds this insensitive but genesis is simply not true (at least from a scientific stand-point) so saying that it is undermines the idea of zoos as educational institutions. If the owners wish to believe this, then fine - the problem is that they try and force it down other peoples (particularly childrens) thoats.

 

[johnstoni]

But they're not forcing anything, people go there voluntarily! And if they weren't aware of before visiting or disliked the creationist slant, the numbers would have tailed off by now.

My point was not to defend Noah's Ark for one moment, what I am saying is that it's a stupid article. Of course some group somewhere opposes a zoo. But since when does that turn into a zoo causing general 'dismay'. Far more constructive would be an article detailing the whole tiger breeding fiasco.

In terms of fact, many zoos still routinely convey to visitors that the only hope for many species in their care is to be held in zoos. This is clearly as false to me as teaching creationism. Thankfully the more progressive ones are now fully engaged in flagship species conservation and fundraising for in situ projects. But I don't expect those lesser zoos to be silenced just because I think their message is off.

 

[taun]

I think the problem comes when the zoo promotes these ideas as fact. I apologise if anyone finds this insensitive but genesis is simply not true (at least from a scientific stand-point) so saying that it is undermines the idea of zoos as educational institutions. If the owners wish to believe this, then fine - the problem is that they try and force it down other peoples (particularly childrens) thoats.

Science still has its flaws and unknowns but will still spout them as FACT and we our forever learning something new or disproving theories.

Yes they may want to tone it down a bit but it is what they believe is fact and we'll you cannot argue against that.

 

[redpanda]

Yes they may want to tone it down a bit but it is what they believe is fact and we'll you cannot argue against that.

When traders first discovered the greater bird of paradise, they sent examples back to Europe, however, these specimens had been prepared by natives and, so that they could be used as decorations, the wings and feet had been removed. This led scientists of the day to believe that they never landed but floated on their plumes (incidentally, the latin name for the GBOP is Paradisaea apoda, the latter part literally meaning "without feet"). Does this mena that we should present this as fact on information boards - should we tell visitors that despite the fact it is clearly wrong it is still true? My point is that just because some (even a lot of) people believe something to be fact, does not make it so and nor does it mean I cannot argue with it. Yes, there are problems with science today but evolution is the most current theory to explain our planet's diversity of species and no-one has yet found compelling evidence to disprove it (and many have tried).

 

[Cat-Man]

How on Earth can you have a zoo that believes in a creationist and design?! That completely goes against what all other Zoos have been teaching (especially since Darwin's 200th!) I would hate to be a Keeper there and feel very sorry for the Keepers that are there!

Look at this! The Noah's Ark story @ Noah's Ark Zoo Farm

Now even if the theme of the Zoo IS Noah and the Ark - which is fine - they should NOT be telling the story of the how the Ark came to be and about the Flood. This will confuse children that are now taught about Evolution in school.

EDIT: I have seen the funniest thing ever look at this link of the animals at the Noah's Ark Farm Zoo, Animals @ Noah's Ark Zoo Farm , and scroll down to 'Y' hahaha, you'll know what I'm talking about.

and all of the animals come from britain

 

[James27]

Fair enough, but as the bible says that we are above the rest of the animal kingdom (and can therefore do what we want with it) I find that this sort of ignorance is counter-productive to conservation (as well as education, of course). However, I suppose it is wasted breath - these people are too narrow-minded to except that what they believe is rubbish so why bother arguing with them?

Actually I'm sure the bible says something like the animals are there for the humans to look after and the plants are there for humans to eat. But then I think it goes on to contradict itself later on... I rest my case lol.

 

[Maguari]

EDIT: I have seen the funniest thing ever look at this link of the animals at the Noah's Ark Farm Zoo, Animals @ Noah's Ark Zoo Farm , and scroll down to 'Y' hahaha, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Guessing this is referring to the Yellow Labrador - certainly at the time of my 2006 visit the most unfortunate animal in the whole place - it was on exhibit tied to a fence in the farm barn with a basket and a water bowl. And nothing else. In a busy public pathway. May well be different by now, but it's pretty ghastly.

Photo evidence: http://www.zoochat.com/211/yellow-labrador-noahs-ark-zoo-farm-38543/

 

[tetrapod]

Has anyone thought of lodging a complaint with BIAZA if they have seen anything which breaks guidelines in terms of animal husbandry?

Has there been any real evidence of breaking husbandry guidelines? BIAZA do not produce any specific husbandry guidelines but obviously direct collections towards the national guidelines which cover exhibiting animals (which they should have already been well aware of to be functioning as a 'zoo'). These guidelines are fairly vague and mostly point to not causing pain and respecting health and safety (yes, I realise that sounds very simplified). If we take note of the various cases where exhibits at Noah's Ark (rhino and giraffe barriers) seem to be unsatisfactory then this is primarily the domain of H&S from the local council. The officer can make or break a collection (I believe it was the similar council position that precipitated the turnover of ownership at Dartmoor WP). If they are not happy with a particular exhibit then either it must be fixed pronto, animals must be moved or the establishment will be closed to the public until the problem is sorted out. H&S officers across the country differ greatly in experience, so they may not be particularly vigilant.

However it is from an educational direction that I think that BIAZA should be pulled up over their admittance of Noah's Ark. BIAZA members must follow the general ethos of teaching scientific fact. Nobody forced Noah's Ark to join BIAZA, and likewise BIAZA did not have to admit this collection.

As for the saga over the tiger cub and it's mother. I think unfortunately that we have been witness to a general lack of experience and the tigers have paid the price. It does happen from time to time due to inexperienced staff, lack of managerial leadership, funds or even difficult individuals in a species. I don't condone what happened and wish that they sort out their problems ASAP by talking to people who know their staff.

 

[zebedee101]

Also an athiest here but I think the zoo serves a niche market, much like Christian book shops in the high street, you never see anyone in them but they must be making sales to stay open. Its possible people with strong Christian beliefs would travel further to visit this zoo rather than attend traditional zoos on their doorstep.

Its also a well known fact that the majority of zoo goers go for entertainment rather than education. A large percentage wont read the signage, except for possiblythe name of the species and will have no idea they visited a creationist zoo!

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Also an athiest here but I think the zoo serves a niche market, much like Christian book shops in the high street, you never see anyone in them but they must be making sales to stay open. Its possible people with strong Christian beliefs would travel further to visit this zoo rather than attend traditional zoos on their doorstep.

Its also a well known fact that the majority of zoo goers go for entertainment rather than education. A large percentage wont read the signage, except for possiblythe name of the species and will have no idea they visited a creationist zoo!

Zoo philosophies are fine ... just the criteria that should be met are minimum standards of animal husbandry, exhibitry and management.
Sadly, NAZF seems to disqualify itself here.

Example: I fail to see how a 1.1 white rhino+sub-standard exhibit can contribute to the long term survival of the species either at NAZF or in captivity in general - given its documented social structure and reproductive ecology - nor its value in terms of conservation education or edutainment.

 

[CiaranDUK]

and all of the animals come from britain

an Unknown locatin in Britain! Also they have Jacob Lambs, but no Jacob Ewes or Rams, Jersey Calfs, but no Jersey Cows or Bulls and the most popular of all Zoo animals... Cordon Bleu!

 

[Theloderma]

I think johnstoni and zebedee101 have summed this one up quite nicely - why is it always the atheists that speak the most sense in religious debates! NAZF has numerous problems but as has been pointed out, most zoo visitors don't read the signs so i'd hazard a guess that most visitors either don't really notice the creationist slant or have decided to visit because of them. Would also remind folks to check their facts before pointing fun and taking the proverbial p***. The cordon bleu is actually a rather popular zoo animal - its a type of waxbill (Uraeginthus cyanocephala).