De Brazza's Guenons

Ara

Well-Known Member
Isis shows 6 male and 3 female De Brazza's guenons still in the region as follows; a pair each at Melbourne and Taronga; 2 males and a female at Mogo and 2 males at Canberra. I'm aware that they are slated for phase-out, and wondered if there are others in the region, at smaller zoos which don't report to ISIS.

Anyone know of any? Alma Park, maybe, or anywhere in New Zealand? (Many years ago there were some at a small animal park at Port Macquarie, but probably long gone now.)
 
fortunately australia have a second guenon species breeding at werribee that may have a higher likelihood of persisting in the region.

but they are hardly comparable to the beauty of the de brazza's.
 
without a new bloodline i have written the vervets off too.
the decision to phase out de'brazzas in favour of colobus is one decision i do disagree with, particularly as saving the colobus meant hybridizing them anyway.
 
Ara said:
Anyone know of any? Alma Park, maybe, or anywhere in New Zealand?
none at Alma Park, and none in NZ. The only ones that ever came into NZ (at least in recent times) were three to the North New Brighton Zoo in Christchurch in the late 80s from Taronga. There were two left when the zoo closed in the early 90s. I don't know where they went.
 
There are, or were, one or two at the previously discussed privately owned primate collection in north-western Sydney.
 
There are, or were, one or two at the previously discussed privately owned primate collection in north-western Sydney.

Steve, I'm sure the one animal privately held in NSW that I heard about circa 2001 must be dead by now. In fact it may have died before this date.

I too am disappointed that the ASMP have given up on yet another species. There was a long running discussion about which guenon to concentrate on for the region, mostly between Dianas and De Brazzas (the species, not the discussion!). The argument tended to fall towards keeping De Brazzas as they were already there, but the problem was obtaining new founders. Personally I think the problem was not enough zoos were willing to put their hands up for 'yet another monkey' and nobody wanted to display West African species. The fact that one could probably keep colobus and De Brazzas within the same exhibit seems to miss people by. It would definitely make for a better display...
 
. The fact that one could probably keep colobus and De Brazzas within the same exhibit seems to miss people by. It would definitely make for a better display...

Now that would be interesting, two very differnet looking but attravtive monkey species. Could they also be combined with other animal species? eg Red River Hog or bongo?
 
No I don't mean here, but could they be combined in places where they can get the pigs?
 
Another ARAZPA phase out decision I cannot understand. DeBrazzas have been in Oz in good numbers, so seems worth to preserve them. :confused:

ARAZPA really needs to focus on zoogeographical areas where its component collections have representative animal collections from, e.g. Africa and SE Asia and Australia-NZ. Second, it requires an intensive working on Biosecurity to allow for imports and exports of exotics to and fro the continents I have mentioned.
 
don't worry - with the amount of backflipping that goes on with its member institutions i'd take any phase in/out decision made by ARAZPA with a grain of salt.
 
Presumably the two or three female DeBrazza's left in Australia are no longer capable of reproducing? If they were still able, it would be surely be worth trying to resurrect the population while you still have them. But if they are post-reproductive they will phase themselves out anyway...
 
I think it would make more sense to hold onto and breed species until we can import more then we should decide what we arent and what we are keeping because we will have more choice then and instead of letting animals die out why not export them to other zoos.
 
I think it would make more sense to hold onto and breed species until we can import more then we should decide what we arent and what we are keeping because we will have more choice then and instead of letting animals die out why not export them to other zoos.

Affirmative and fully accepted. Be realistic, be brave and - afters - bold(er)!

E.G., Biosecurity is not cracked in 2 seconds (UNFORTUNATELY)!!! :rolleyes:
 
Now that would be interesting, two very differnet looking but attravtive monkey species. Could they also be combined with other animal species? eg Red River Hog or bongo?

Yes I don't see why one couldn't mix the two primates with either hoofstock species. The downside with the pigs (obviously never to see the light of day down under) is the damage they do to the substrate turning it into mud. Not the most sensible for a semi-terrestrial species like De Brazzas. The downside with the bongos is that they require so much more space than the primates - however Woburn mixed various primates successfully with hoofstock in large (drive-through?) exhibits.
 
don't worry - with the amount of backflipping that goes on with its member institutions i'd take any phase in/out decision made by ARAZPA with a grain of salt.

It is is true, but it comes with inherent problems for all member institutions. If institution A is interested in maintaining a species that they currently house, then A needs to convince the TAG and members B & C to come on board to assist in the increase of the population. If they don't then A has to make a decision: do I carry on with the species alone or let it die out. If the species in question is a slow reproducer that lives for a long time, then institution A may have time on their side for opinion to change. Unfortunately the constant back-flipping by the ASMP has led to the demise/near demise of a number of good species (clouded leopard, golden cat, sulawesi macaque) and the hasty import to bolster up others (serval, mara, crested porcupine).
 
tetrapod - the worst thing is it not only effects any said species but has repercussions for others as well. in australia we had two exotic dog species in decent numbers (for australia) - maned wolves and wild dogs. wild dogs were being managed properly whereas only melbourne and western plains kept maned wolves. dubbo had bred so many that they actually were actually well in surplus and the new zoos were desperately needed to come of board, hold the species and have the program upgraded to a proper level of management.

but taronga zoo (who own western plains mind you) decided they wanted dhole. this is despite the fact that they no longer kept the species and had previously let it die out of their collection.

melbourne and adelaide agreed they too wanted dhole and the maned wolf was looking destined for phase-out in favour of a no more interesting (i would argue less) species, not even in the country that looked strikingly similar to our own native species of wild dog. why? for the simple fact that unlike the south american maned wolf - dhole were an asian species. and asian species are "in" at the moment with australian zoos.

and so only a few years ago when zoos should no better and we are supposed to be consolidating and initiating rescue packages for species, not making the same mistakes again, the a-typical scenario played out, proving our zoos are really no closer to being responsible with species management than they ever have been.

taronga imported only one pair of dhole and no more, despite initially declaring intention for a couple of pairs.

adelaide pulled out of their commitments. so too did melbourne. taronga bred their pair anyway, but since they have no additional unrelated animals can't continue past the first generation.

the program is downgraded.

so what have taronga done? well they have taken two endangered cambodian dhole and effectively "dead ended" their genetic lineage. thus not only have they failed at establishing a dhole breeding program it could be said that they have actually been counter productive to any other potential program as well by removing animals from the population.

in adddition the maned wolf population has now lost four valuable potential spaces that are being taken up by dhole which could have instead serviced them.

this didn't happen a decade ago. it happened recently.
 
Altina Wildlife park keep maned wolves...I don't know how many or if they breed.
 
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