Do people carry guns in zoos in the USA?

[Jana]

I had no idea that there was even that kind of gun culture in the Czech Republic, that really comes as a suprise to me.

We don´t have "gun culture", guns are not celebrated or even visible, we don´t have mass shootings or street gangs. In the 1990s, our country decided for libertarian aproach to "vices" like guns, drugs and sex/nudity. You are free to indulge in them, however if you misuse your liberty to harm other people, expect severe punishment. It works for us, our murder rate is 2x lower than in Germany or the UK.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I really don't think so. A zoo just seems like such an odd spot to target - there are so many "better" places for a mass shooter to try. I honestly do not expect a mass shooting to ever take place in a zoo, though you never know, I guess.

Well you might be right but supermarkets, malls, cafes, schools, casinos, nursery schools, sign making businesses, spas, nursing homes and post offices strike me as an odd place for a mass shooting too and they have happened on many occasions.

Plus there was that case of a deranged PETA activist who shot up a Youtube office a couple of years ago.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

We don´t have "gun culture", guns are not celebrated or even visible, we don´t have mass shootings or street gangs. In the 1990s, our country decided for libertarian aproach to "vices" like guns, drugs and sex/nudity. You are free to indulge in them, however if you misuse your liberty to harm other people, expect severe punishment. It works for us, our murder rate is 2x lower than in Germany or the UK.

I didn't mean a gun culture in the sense of the US with an overt worship of guns but rather in the sense of sale of guns and concealed carry.

I suppose given the historical context of the Czech Republic it makes far more sense for there to be guns or a demand /perceived need for these given the twentieth century history of invasion and occupation by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and regional instability and war in the neighbouring Balkans.

Afterall the Czech people have been subject to genocide before when Heydrich was obliterating any resistance to Nazi rule so given that historical memory and trauma I can quite understand that the presence / availability of guns might seem justifiable to many Czechs to ensure safety.

 

[15399]

Well you might be right but supermarkets, malls, cafes, schools, casinos, nursery schools, sign making businesses, spas, nursing homes and post offices strike me as an odd place for a mass shooting too and they have happened on many occasions.

Plus there was that case of a deranged PETA activist who shot up a Youtube office a couple of years ago.

Keep in mind also that the vast majority of mass shootings in the US happen by people who are mentally ill. For instance, most school shootings are done by former students who believe the school ruined their life in some way and want revenge on the school. I do think nowhere is safe from a shooting, but we do see time and time again the same types of places get targeted (schools, supermarkets, places of worship, nightclubs, etc.). I also agree with what @Arizona Docent said about the National Zoo. If a zoo shooting was to take place (and I hope it doesn't), the most likely zoos are ones that are free and don't have security checks, such as Smithsonian National Zoo, Saint Louis Zoo, Lincoln Park Zoo, etc. Having to pay to get in wouldn't stop a shooting from happening, but that is one more obstacle making it less likely to happen. You also have to keep in mind that most shootings happen for two reasons: wanting to kill the most people possible, or wanting to kill a certain type of person. The first type is where you get shootings at supermarkets, bars, malls, and other places with a lot of people close together. It would be absurd for someone who wants to kill the most people possible to shoot up a zoo, there are places with much bigger crowds. The second type is where you get most of your school shootings, religious fanatics shooting up a church or temple, etc. I also don't really see this happening at a zoo. As much as we dislike PETA and other activist groups, they are not terrorists. I highly doubt you are going to see an Animal Rights group shoot up a zoo, it just doesn't make sense.

On a completely different note, when I started volunteering at my local zoo, one of the first things we went over were all the different drills/emergency scenarios. We went through all the scenarios one would expect- escapes if dangerous or non-dangerous animals, fires, missing child (the only one I've ever actually seen in five years), first aid emergencies, etc. They also covered one for shooter in zoo. As unlikely as it is, shooter in zoo is something there is an actual plan for by a lot of institutions, which while it wouldn't stop a shooting, is integral to limiting the loss of life.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Keep in mind also that the vast majority of mass shootings in the US happen by people who are mentally ill. For instance, most school shootings are done by former students who believe the school ruined their life in some way and want revenge on the school. I do think nowhere is safe from a shooting, but we do see time and time again the same types of places get targeted (schools, supermarkets, places of worship, nightclubs, etc.). I also agree with what @Arizona Docent said about the National Zoo. If a zoo shooting was to take place (and I hope it doesn't), the most likely zoos are ones that are free and don't have security checks, such as Smithsonian National Zoo, Saint Louis Zoo, Lincoln Park Zoo, etc. Having to pay to get in wouldn't stop a shooting from happening, but that is one more obstacle making it less likely to happen. You also have to keep in mind that most shootings happen for two reasons: wanting to kill the most people possible, or wanting to kill a certain type of person. The first type is where you get shootings at supermarkets, bars, malls, and other places with a lot of people close together. It would be absurd for someone who wants to kill the most people possible to shoot up a zoo, there are places with much bigger crowds. The second type is where you get most of your school shootings, religious fanatics shooting up a church or temple, etc. I also don't really see this happening at a zoo. As much as we dislike PETA and other activist groups, they are not terrorists. I highly doubt you are going to see an Animal Rights group shoot up a zoo, it just doesn't make sense.

On a completely different note, when I started volunteering at my local zoo, one of the first things we went over were all the different drills/emergency scenarios. We went through all the scenarios one would expect- escapes if dangerous or non-dangerous animals, fires, missing child (the only one I've ever actually seen in five years), first aid emergencies, etc. They also covered one for shooter in zoo. As unlikely as it is, shooter in zoo is something there is an actual plan for by a lot of institutions, which while it wouldn't stop a shooting, is integral to limiting the loss of life.

Well I agree that it is unlikely but it isn't impossible and I guess that was what I was trying to convey with my comment that the rates of mass shootings are going up all the time and are happening in all kinds of locations and for all kinds of motives.

For example, back in the 1980's and 1990's up until the Columbine incident it appeared that most mass shootings were occuring in post offices / the postal service and "going postal" incidents where former employees who had often been subject of abusive workplace practices such as mobbing (obviously I am not condoning the shooters but rather pointing to the investigations which concluded that many of the root causes were very destructive labor-management relations).

Now it seems like these kinds of shootings are endemic and happening everywhere, in every setting and for every kind of reason / "motive" from white supremicists to Islamic fundamentalists, from guys who can't get laid to sex addicts, from disgruntled ex-cops to ex-employees who were laid off work, from kids who were bullied at high school to very ill individuals suffering from schizophrenia etc.

I think that if I was in the United States I wouldn't feel particularly safe anywhere and nor would I feel that any place is invulnerable from these kind of incidents.

I should say too that I wasn't implying that PETA activists would get involved in a mass shooting (that would be far too bad press) but rather just pointing out that there was a case of an individual activist who evidently was quite unwell who shot up a Youtube office.

That said, while typically non-violent there is an extremist fringe amongst the animal rights movement that have in the past advocated assasinations and bombings and so I don't think it is an impossible scenario for an extremist of an animal rights group to commit an act of extreme violence.

 

[15399]

Well I agree that it is unlikely but it isn't impossible and I guess that was what I was trying to convey with my comment that the rates of mass shootings are going up all the time and are happening in all kinds of locations and for all kinds of motives.

For example, back in the 1980's and 1990's up until the Columbine incident it appeared that most mass shootings were occuring in post offices / the postal service and "going postal" incidents where former employees who had often been subject of abusive workplace practices such as mobbing (obviously I am not condoning the shooters but rather pointing to the investigations which concluded that many of the root causes were very destructive labor-management relations).

Now it seems like these kinds of shootings are endemic and happening everywhere, in every setting and for every kind of reason / "motive" from white supremicists to Islamic fundamentalists, from guys who can't get laid to sex addicts, from disgruntled ex-cops to ex-employees who were laid off work, from kids who were bullied at high school to very ill individuals suffering from schizophrenia etc.

I think that if I was in the United States I wouldn't feel particularly safe anywhere and nor would I feel that any place is invulnerable from these kind of incidents.

I should say too that I wasn't implying that PETA activists would get involved in a mass shooting (that would be far too bad press) but rather just pointing out that there was a case of an individual activist who evidently was quite unwell who shot up a Youtube office.

It's also worth noting that "gun culture" varies a lot state to state. I live in Massachusetts, a state with strict regulations on firearms and has never had a mass shooting incident. If you were to look at a list of mass shootings, the vast majority of mass shooting incidents happen in a handful of US states, like Texas and Ohio. Of course a shooting could happen anywhere and I'm not saying Massachusetts is immune from having a shooting, but I never fear for my life from a shooting since the gun culture is not nearly as big of a deal here.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

It's also worth noting that "gun culture" varies a lot state to state. I live in Massachusetts, a state with strict regulations on firearms and has never had a mass shooting incident. If you were to look at a list of mass shootings, the vast majority of mass shooting incidents happen in a handful of US states, like Texas and Ohio. Of course a shooting could happen anywhere and I'm not saying Massachusetts is immune from having a shooting, but I never fear for my life from a shooting since the gun culture is not nearly as big of a deal here.

Yes, I'm sure you are right that it is more common in some regions or states due to differing legislation than in others.

I don't mean to come across as if I'm stereotyping or generalizing about the USA and I'm sorry if it comes across that way, not my intention at all.

 

[Arizona Docent]

...I think that if I was in the United States I wouldn't feel particularly safe anywhere and nor would I feel that any place is invulnerable from these kind of incidents...

You are correct in the sense that no place is invulnerable and it could happen anywhere (even at a zoo, though I never feel unsafe there). However the idea that you can't feel safe anywhere is not I think a sense that most Americans have on a regular basis (certainly not me). I mean we know it theoretically could happen any time but it's just not something we think about going through our daily lives. Just as when we are driving (which most Americans do daily) we don't think about getting into a car accident, even though the average American is far more likely to be injured or killed in a car accident than to be shot. We also don't think on a daily basis about what will happen if I get cancer, even though we all know someone who has. As long as your daily experience is one of normalcy, you don't think much about tragic events like this (which is a good thing IMO because you would be crippled with fear and unable to function normally if you did think too much about it). I am NOT saying this to minimize the shootings in any way; I am the first to admit we have a problem. I am just saying the average person does not go around in fear of being shot. For a balance of perspective (NOT saying this makes it any better), but as I think someone pointed out earlier in the thread, most gun deaths (or even non-gun murders) are not mass shootings but individual killings where the victim is killed by someone they know who has singled them out for a specific reason.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

You are correct in the sense that no place is invulnerable and it could happen anywhere (even at a zoo, though I never feel unsafe there). However the idea that you can't feel safe anywhere is not I think a sense that most Americans have on a regular basis (certainly not me). I mean we know it theoretically could happen any time but it's just not something we think about going through our daily lives. Just as when we are driving (which most Americans do daily) we don't think about getting into a car accident, even though the average American is far more likely to be injured or killed in a car accident than to be shot. We also don't think on a daily basis about what will happen if I get cancer, even though we all know someone who has. As long as your daily experience is one of normalcy, you don't think much about tragic events like this (which is a good thing IMO because you would be crippled with fear and unable to function normally if you did think too much about it). I am NOT saying this to minimize the shootings in any way; I am the first to admit we have a problem. I am just saying the average person does not go around in fear of being shot. For a balance of perspective (NOT saying this makes it any better), but as I think someone pointed out earlier in the thread, most gun deaths (or even non-gun murders) are not mass shootings but individual killings where the victim is killed by someone they know who has singled them out for a specific reason.

Yes, of course, none of us have the thought of our own mortality in mind all the time anywhere in the world and the citizens of the USA are no different.

Also agree with you that fear of mass shootings shouldn't paralyse with fear to the point that normal life cannot continue.

But from an outsider perspective these incidents do seem particularly horrifying both considering that these are not occurring in a war / conflict zone and by how regularly they are happening.

 

[Zooplantman]

But from an outsider perspective these incidents do seem particularly horrifying both considering that these are not occurring in a war / conflict zone and by how regularly they are happening.

You cannot discount the way info comes to you. Sitting here in New York, I have been given the distinct impression that to walk through Rio is to invite robbery and attack. What sane person would venture there? But my Brazilian friends say that I am sort of correct yet not really correct. I could also conclude that if visiting France I might very well be killed by a knife-wielding Islamist. My French friends don't appear to stop their lives because of that. And let's not even talk about northern Mexico!
But people do go about their daily lives and most make it home at night

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

You cannot discount the way info comes to you. Sitting here in New York, I have been given the distinct impression that to walk through Rio is to invite robbery and attack. What sane person would venture there? But my Brazilian friends say that I am sort of correct yet not really correct. I could also conclude that if visiting France I might very well be killed by a knife-wielding Islamist. My French friends don't appear to stop their lives because of that. And let's not even talk about northern Mexico!
But people do go about their daily lives and most make it home at night

Yes of course, again I agree that impressions from the outside do not often match reality and that the reality is more complex that the image projected in the media and also that ordinary everyday life shouldn't grind to a halt because of this.

That said, I think that the difference is that these mass shootings are not occurring in favelas with dire socio-economic conditions nor are they being commited by terrorist organizations or drug cartels so to speak (though they undoubtedly do terrorize the population) but rather are occurring everywhere and occur almost everyday.

 

[Zooplantman]

Yes of course, again I agree that impressions from the outside do not often match reality and that the reality is more complex that the image projected in the media and also that ordinary everyday life shouldn't grind to a halt because of this.

That said, I think that the difference is that these mass shootings are not occurring in favelas with dire socio-economic conditions nor are they being commited by terrorist organizations so to speak (though they undoubtedly do terrorize the population) but rather are occurring everywhere and almost everyday.

Not really. The chances of encountering such incidents is quite low. Car travel remains more risky. In some parts of the USA where COVID-denial is high, a trip to a restaurant is more risky.
I'm wondering what we are really doing with this discussion. Americans are telling you that we deplore the situation but do not live in fear. You appear to be insisting that we ought to live in fear. Can you succinctly state your point?

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Not really. The chances of encountering such incidents is quite low. Car travel remains more risky. In some parts of the USA where COVID-denial is high, a trip to a restaurant is more risky.
I'm wondering what we are really doing with this discussion. Americans are telling you that we deplore the situation but do not live in fear. You appear to be insisting that we ought to live in fear. Can you succinctly state your point?

No, I'm not saying you guys should live in fear, quite the opposite actually as I think ordinary life should continue in defiance of these kinds of incidents.

I'm not making a point as such but rather stating simply that these events are on the rise that this is quite bizarre and that I think it highlights some underlying societal problems which are concerning.

What I do think should happen is soul searching within the country and culture itself to ask why this phenomenon is happening and on the rise.

 

[Zooplantman]

No, I'm not saying you guys should live in fear, quite the opposite actually as I think ordinary life should continue in defiance of these kinds of incidents.

I'm not making a point as such but rather stating simply that these events are on the rise that this is quite bizarre and that I think it highlights some underlying societal problems which are concerning.

What I do think should happen is soul searching within the country and culture itself to ask why this phenomenon is happening and on the rise.

Living in fear may seem unacceptable, even inconceivable to we privileged people but for the majority of humans it is the norm. What woman doesn't walk the streets in fear? Enter her male boss' office in fear? What poor person doesn't fear every day for feeding the family or being killed by cops? In countries such as USA and UK what person of color doesn't live in fear of what the next encounter with white authorities will bring him?
What older person doesn't live in fear of cancer or whatever doom shall bring? With authoritarian regimes restricting life in Brazil, Poland, Hungary, much of Africa, China, Myanmar and beyond who is free of fear?
If you are not living with fear you are not paying attention.
So I think fear is not the issue at all.
Indifference to human life is an issue. The corrupt power of greed is an issue. A culture that leaves plenty of angry white men with vengeance on their mind is an issue.
When I was a kid some disgruntled student climbed a bell tower in a Texas University armed with a sniper rifle and started shooting. That was over 50 years ago. The following years in the USA at least four of the brightest voices for change were publicly assassinated. Then cities were overturned by rioting and outrage. If you look only at the incidents of the past ten years you cannot understand the real arc of history. The gun debate in the USA has, for 75 years been a cover for a deeper divide over values and culture. Solve that and guns will only be a threat to deer.
These issues are worldwide. This is how they play out in the USA but we are but one example.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Living in fear may seem unacceptable, even inconceivable to we privileged people but for the majority of humans it is the norm. What woman doesn't walk the streets in fear? Enter her male boss' office in fear? What poor person doesn't fear every day for feeding the family or being killed by cops? In countries such as USA and UK what person of color doesn't live in fear of what the next encounter with white authorities will bring him?
What older person doesn't live in fear of cancer or whatever doom shall bring? With authoritarian regimes restricting life in Brazil, Poland, Hungary, much of Africa, China, Myanmar and beyond who is free of fear?
If you are not living with fear you are not paying attention.
So I think fear is not the issue at all.
Indifference to human life is an issue. The corrupt power of greed is an issue. A culture that leaves plenty of angry white men with vengeance on their mind is an issue.
When I was a kid some disgruntled student climbed a bell tower in a Texas University armed with a sniper rifle and started shooting. That was over 50 years ago. The following years in the USA at least four of the brightest voices for change were publicly assassinated. Then cities were overturned by rioting and outrage. If you look only at the incidents of the past ten years you cannot understand the real arc of history. The gun debate in the USA has, for 75 years been a cover for a deeper divide over values and culture. Solve that and guns will only be a threat to deer.
These issues are worldwide. This is how they play out in the USA but we are but one example.

Totally agree that is the underlying issues that are the problem and that these are part of the human condition and not restricted to the USA.

 

[Terry Thomas]

For foreigners who don’t understand why we have and carry so many guns let me explain. It started during our revolution when guns were banned so our very second amendment ever created was the freedom to own guns. The black panthers were an African American militia group who carried around guns to protect African American people from police officers. Guns are very rooted our culture and as some people know America can be very volatile and a large amount of people need to protect themselves from each other and others.

Rules and laws, made several hundred years ago when life and times were very different, surely should be updated to reflect the present. Cowboy and Indians mentality belong in the distant past! A nation that lives in the past, belongs in the past! (Just my thinking, and no offence meant).

 

[elefante]

You can say what you want about the gun laws in the USA, but one thing is for sure-the USA is the safest country in the world as long as 5 year old children are handcuffed there. Avert the beginnings...

What's that even supposed to mean?