Taronga Western Plains Zoo elephant death
- Thread starter jay
- Start date
i thought elephants were supposed to do better in open-range zoos 
why have the greens launched this attack? admittedly two high-profile animal deaths in a week is alot, but spread out over two institutions??? animals die every day in zoos, as much a shame as this is, its a fact of life. domestic animals die every day, animals that have been bred in captivity for thousnads of generations. of course there are going to be hick-ups, and setbacks.
in 2004 a female cotton-top tamarin (imported shorty before from the USA) died at taronga, with both her twins, after eating a slug! ct tamarins are critically endangered, and the breeding program is definitely important(as with indian rhinos, for example). but not one whimper from the greens camp. and this case was publicaly available data.
im not using the ct tamarin so as to draw a comparison between the species and re-open the suitability to captivity debate, merely to reiterate a point i made earlier; that these anti-zoo people only latch on to high-profile animal deaths.
western plains zoo has been keeping african elephants very succesfully now for 30 years, albeit with no breeding success. in the future (ecspecialy if the africans keep dropping off) this expertise could be transferred over to the asian elephants.
why have the greens launched this attack? admittedly two high-profile animal deaths in a week is alot, but spread out over two institutions??? animals die every day in zoos, as much a shame as this is, its a fact of life. domestic animals die every day, animals that have been bred in captivity for thousnads of generations. of course there are going to be hick-ups, and setbacks.
in 2004 a female cotton-top tamarin (imported shorty before from the USA) died at taronga, with both her twins, after eating a slug! ct tamarins are critically endangered, and the breeding program is definitely important(as with indian rhinos, for example). but not one whimper from the greens camp. and this case was publicaly available data.
im not using the ct tamarin so as to draw a comparison between the species and re-open the suitability to captivity debate, merely to reiterate a point i made earlier; that these anti-zoo people only latch on to high-profile animal deaths.
western plains zoo has been keeping african elephants very succesfully now for 30 years, albeit with no breeding success. in the future (ecspecialy if the africans keep dropping off) this expertise could be transferred over to the asian elephants.
Glyn I agree! But don't forget the high profile of elephants at the moment. Anything negative to with elephants is going to be used for poiltical point scoring, especially by the Greens. If, as zoo bioy suggests, that Cherie has health problems then I think Dubbo needs to get this information out to the public ASAP. The major difference between this case and Perths is that The Perth elephants ill health was widely known and acknowladged by the zoo. So when she died the zoo could rightly say that it was no real suprise to any one. I wouldn't kniow about any health problems related to Cheri and this will be used by anti zoo people such as my favourite Greens senator.
the cons to not reporting bad news, small as it may be at the time, to the media maybe? something we have talked about before hey?
glyn - dubbo use the expertise gained in keeping elephants for asians? well not if keeping elephants at dubbo is rediculous, as you state, due to the costs!!!
the only thing thats going to annoy me here is that already the media are reporting statements that imply that cheri, at 35, was old (the oldest in the herd in fact?) and died of age related illness...
illness maybe, age related?, well technically a degenerative illness gets worse with age - but it does come accross as a bit misleading.
glyn - dubbo use the expertise gained in keeping elephants for asians? well not if keeping elephants at dubbo is rediculous, as you state, due to the costs!!!
the only thing thats going to annoy me here is that already the media are reporting statements that imply that cheri, at 35, was old (the oldest in the herd in fact?) and died of age related illness...
illness maybe, age related?, well technically a degenerative illness gets worse with age - but it does come accross as a bit misleading.
theres nothing stopping the staff at western plains zoo from transferring their skills to asian elephants through staff transfers, publications and communications. in the future, if a bachelor herd of asian elephants was established at dubbo, then again, dubbo's elephant keeping skills would be called upon.
the national abc media coverage wasnt as detailed as the local dubbo report-see that one where the zoo's veterinarian is more than transparent about the issues surrounding cheri. you have to consider too, the zoo wouldnt be able to, even if it wanted to, hide anything like this. dubbo is one big country town with strong ties to the zoo, and the zoo has an active and disproportinately large volunteer network, and with cheri, yum yum and cuddles being such long-time dubbo residents their welfare is a high-profile community issue. consider these elephants dubbo's equivelent to rigo
the national abc media coverage wasnt as detailed as the local dubbo report-see that one where the zoo's veterinarian is more than transparent about the issues surrounding cheri. you have to consider too, the zoo wouldnt be able to, even if it wanted to, hide anything like this. dubbo is one big country town with strong ties to the zoo, and the zoo has an active and disproportinately large volunteer network, and with cheri, yum yum and cuddles being such long-time dubbo residents their welfare is a high-profile community issue. consider these elephants dubbo's equivelent to rigo
over the years most of our big zoos have come under some level of sustained attack and scrutiny from NGOs like the RSPCA. In the late 1980s a spate of un-related animal deaths at Western Plains Zoo triggered an inquiry, which found that the zoo was in no way at fault. Similarly, the births of three western-lowland gorillas at Melbourne in the late 1990s were marred by allegations that the zoo was euthanasing animals, citing mandrills as an example to cut costs. Again, no further action seemed to occur. When Taronga's female gorilla Frala became pregnant in 1998/1999 an accussation was made that if the pregnancy testing found that Frala was carrying a male embryo that the pregnancy would be terminated. And now, we have the most recent scandal, along with previous problems with the Black Rhinoveros program's shaky start and our Asian Elephant saga.
The pattern is that the zoos have consistently emerged free from blame. I am not saying that zoos should not be held accountable, but as they play such a unique role i think some many of their decisions should be scrutinised in a more practical, contextual apporach, and less of the 'gaga, i love fluffy' attitude.
of course, animal cruelty is another thing. but beyond keeping 'wild animals' in exhibits which some people see as cruel, can anyone think of an example of cruelty in their zoo??? i cant
The pattern is that the zoos have consistently emerged free from blame. I am not saying that zoos should not be held accountable, but as they play such a unique role i think some many of their decisions should be scrutinised in a more practical, contextual apporach, and less of the 'gaga, i love fluffy' attitude.
of course, animal cruelty is another thing. but beyond keeping 'wild animals' in exhibits which some people see as cruel, can anyone think of an example of cruelty in their zoo??? i cant
cruelty in zoos
It wasnt that long ago when there was the thread about the animal trainer using physical punishment against the cheetah ( that was the allegation ) at Wellington Zoo .
The actions ( or lack of ) by Wellington Zoo after the allegations came out , and the pathetic response by the zoo to my email , suggests to me that there is some truth in the allegation .
Please note that just because it is the closest zoo to where I live , I do not condone them in this instance .
It wasnt that long ago when there was the thread about the animal trainer using physical punishment against the cheetah ( that was the allegation ) at Wellington Zoo .
The actions ( or lack of ) by Wellington Zoo after the allegations came out , and the pathetic response by the zoo to my email , suggests to me that there is some truth in the allegation .
Please note that just because it is the closest zoo to where I live , I do not condone them in this instance .
just because the zoo didnt answer you doesnt mean it happened. i think the zoo should be answerable to the public, as we support them, and in australia by rights (freedom of info) we can obtain any information. but within reason. given the nature of the allegation, the zoo probably decided, quite rightly, to ride out the storm, issue a blanket statement if need be, and thats it.
from what I gather , the zoo tried to cover it up and keep it "hush hush"
The city councillor who deals with zoo was only told of the allegation through myself .
There was no public statement by the zoo on the issue -- it seems that they sent a bland response to anyone like myself who challenged them about it .
It is true that I am not 100% sure that the incident DID happen , but the zoos response ( or lack of ) was not very convincing .
I agree that the zoo should have made a blanket statement ( public ) to give their side of the story , and carry on with running the zoo . But they didnt .
The city councillor who deals with zoo was only told of the allegation through myself .
There was no public statement by the zoo on the issue -- it seems that they sent a bland response to anyone like myself who challenged them about it .
It is true that I am not 100% sure that the incident DID happen , but the zoos response ( or lack of ) was not very convincing .
I agree that the zoo should have made a blanket statement ( public ) to give their side of the story , and carry on with running the zoo . But they didnt .
i would like to see taronga zoo post a response to these claims on their website, which has become quite good lately in terms of updates but at the moment has nothing defending the zoos position.
however, the zoo does have a capable and very media-savvy pr/communications dept, so i trust their call and judgement on this issue. its my opinion though, that as the zoos website is the first port of call for anyone doing their own research into this topic, that Taronga should get in first and tell their side of the story.
for example, The Age ran a story following these cruelty allegations about a keeper resigning from the zoo because WPZ was making its African elephants climb onto rocks for treats, in front of the public. Now for starters, these arent boulders, theyre slabs of bedrock only one or two foot high, at the maximum. this kind of exercise cannot be bad for an elephant, particularly ones like Cheri who suffered from mild athritis and for who this kind of exercise, i imagine, would be a valuable tool in managing her condition.
similarly, the allegation concerning heman's death and the connection with Burma. Burma is an aggressive animal, who's plight ha slong been debated on this forum. Hard to handle, difficult to integrate with other animals and still essentially owned by a circus. Its not hard to understand the zoo's decision to relocate her to Dubbo, where, in facilities specialy designed to keep her and Heman seperate, she will live out her days. Sadly, it does appear that Burma did injure Heman in the months before he died. However, these two animals had frequently been displayed together in the past, for short periods of time, and the zoo was under constant criticism about keeping the animals seperate from welfare groups. As Hmean and Burma were not to be integrated with the Thai elephants, attempts to introduce these individuals in the hope of acheiving a level of compatability could be seen as the zoo trying its best to compromise and acheive at least some sort of acceptable outcome for these two animals.
However, it would appear that the introductions failed, and this could of had an effect on Hemans health. The zoo should explain its position on this. I believe, that despite the tragedy surrounding these deaths, that the animals welfare always comes first. And i believe it is this imperative and not the commercial one which governs the zoo. What finacial gains were supposed to be made from keeping two asian elephants togethe ron display rather than seperate and next to one another i will never know. Which is why i find these sorts of stupid remarks so stupid.
however, the zoo does have a capable and very media-savvy pr/communications dept, so i trust their call and judgement on this issue. its my opinion though, that as the zoos website is the first port of call for anyone doing their own research into this topic, that Taronga should get in first and tell their side of the story.
for example, The Age ran a story following these cruelty allegations about a keeper resigning from the zoo because WPZ was making its African elephants climb onto rocks for treats, in front of the public. Now for starters, these arent boulders, theyre slabs of bedrock only one or two foot high, at the maximum. this kind of exercise cannot be bad for an elephant, particularly ones like Cheri who suffered from mild athritis and for who this kind of exercise, i imagine, would be a valuable tool in managing her condition.
similarly, the allegation concerning heman's death and the connection with Burma. Burma is an aggressive animal, who's plight ha slong been debated on this forum. Hard to handle, difficult to integrate with other animals and still essentially owned by a circus. Its not hard to understand the zoo's decision to relocate her to Dubbo, where, in facilities specialy designed to keep her and Heman seperate, she will live out her days. Sadly, it does appear that Burma did injure Heman in the months before he died. However, these two animals had frequently been displayed together in the past, for short periods of time, and the zoo was under constant criticism about keeping the animals seperate from welfare groups. As Hmean and Burma were not to be integrated with the Thai elephants, attempts to introduce these individuals in the hope of acheiving a level of compatability could be seen as the zoo trying its best to compromise and acheive at least some sort of acceptable outcome for these two animals.
However, it would appear that the introductions failed, and this could of had an effect on Hemans health. The zoo should explain its position on this. I believe, that despite the tragedy surrounding these deaths, that the animals welfare always comes first. And i believe it is this imperative and not the commercial one which governs the zoo. What finacial gains were supposed to be made from keeping two asian elephants togethe ron display rather than seperate and next to one another i will never know. Which is why i find these sorts of stupid remarks so stupid.