Elephant haven, European elephant sanctuary

There are at least two places in the UK talking about doing something like this too- Longleat and Noah's Ark(though the latter have talked about a breeding group also) I wonder if there are enough Elephants in this category in Europe, to justify these plans.
 
Their website claims "hundreds of elephants across Europe" but doesn't give one example.

There are already two huge open-range elephant places in Spain (Carbaceno and Benidorm).
Zoos in Europe already take ex-circus elephants (how many circus elephants remain in Europe at all, BTW?)
They seem to have no expertise to take juvenile captive-bred bulls from EEP and no interest in cooperating with EEP.
They cannot easily take elephants from East European zoos outside EU, due to the complex veterinary regulations.

So I think this is a solution without a problem?
 
Cabarceno is a breeding group and won`t accept anymore needy elephants, certainly none which are non-breeding or having social problems. Terra Natura had due to economic reason to downsize its elephant population and moved most of their older females out. They only kept the 4 youngest females and the proven breeding bull. I don`t know if they are in any position to take new elephants now, but you bet that they would only take females in breeding age to "use" the potential of Luka.
From what I have heard, Noah`s Ark will also house a group of 2-3 related females and a bull- ergo ANOTHER breeding group.

There is definately a big, big problem in europe to house older, non-breeding females, especially those who have been exposed to diseases like TB or herpes and who are difficult to integrate into existing groups due to their character (f.e. very dominant).
All zoos with good/ new enclosures want to breed, which is good and much-needed, but that leaves only zoos with old, outdated facilities for non-breeding females. Given that older females are often dominant and often have social problems due to their life histories, they are bad candidates for those small, outdated enclosures that can house 2-3 elephants max. What usually happens now is that these older females (either from zoos where they are not compartible with the group or from circusses) - due to a lack of alternatives - are placed in zoos with outdated enclosures and when she doesn`t get along with the other elephant(s), well, one has to move again. And again. This is not a good situation. Just look at the situation in Burgers Zoo. It`s good that they are taking older females, but a good place for older females should have at least 2 good-sized outdoor enclosures so that females like Rupa can stay and don`t have to be moved through half Europe to the next zoo, even though it is totally unkown if Rupa will get along with the elephant she is housed with in Italy.

It seems to me one of the founders of this project is an (ex?) elephant keeper from Antwerp Zoo, so there is at least one person who has a lot of hands-on knowledge with elephants, incl. a bull.
 
basically this plan soumd to me like animal rights are involved. ie PAWS are involved in this . I dont know where they get the idea that its its needed in Europe unless its the personnel opinions of the people involved.One of the people involved is also involved in a ducth animal rights group which are trying to stop circuses . . As we know the standard in Europe for elephants has improved over the years .
 
Another note im sure we all aware of what happening in Toronto where the elephants have to move to animal sanctuary just because a tv host and a group of unknowledgeable councilors think its a good idea . This sanctuary could be another situation like that , where ther would like to have an elephant because they think its a good idea where its so further from the truth
 
Yassa, if you claim this elderly elephant issue is a big issue in Europe where are the candidates that would qualify?

If it is not down to factual examples of elephants that are now surplus to or are not being accommodated in EAZA accredited institutions I just fail to see any of them. Similarly, in respectable non EAZA zoos I do not see that many elephants to make it work either.

Similarly thanks to new legislation circus elephants are fast becoming an 'endangered species" themselves and perversely actually might put circus elephants at the mercy of those managing these elephants. Without any income no quality elephant animal welfare (just look at what mahouts across South and Eastern Asia do with out-of-work or "underperforming" elephants).

The only significant source could be illegal elephant live imports and these are far and few. Being a high profile animal elephants are less likely ignored in transport and as CITES species' will make most customs authorities scrutinize any paperwork.

I really would love to see where the candidate elephants would come from to make the argument for a private sanctuary to be established in Europe one that will work. Real examples please!

My final question: in what manner does this planned sanctuary work with elephant management from EAZA and the EEPs' for Asiatics and Africans?
:confused:
 
Actually, I think it is a very good idea to move the Toronto elephants to PAWS. And I am not anti-zoo. I am not even against keeping elephants in zoos. But please, if you do keep elephants, do it under better conditions then in Toronto.
If you read my post above, you`ll see why non-breeding elephants have to live in substandart conditions in many, many European zoos. Those who mainly benefit from all the new enclosures and improvements are elephants fit for breeding.
 
The first "real" candidates could be the 2 TB-infected elephants from Lyon Zoo. Lyon wants to get rid of them, but no zoo will take them and the zoo actually announced last year they would be euthananized if the circus where they originally came from doesn`t take them back. Neither has happened yet.
There are a number of older females in zoos all over Europe in not so good situations which may have to move again due to social problems - or be kept alone for the rest of their lifes.
 
French planning officials have given the green light for the centre, with the first animals expected to arrive sometime in 2018.

YESSSSS!!!
 
I helped the couple who started Elephant Haven to create the building on site. I am a mammalian biologist/ecologist but the second string to my bow is green construction. I investigated materials, the design and requirements from the people's point of view but primarily from the elephants point of view. I tried to give the project owners something that was a professional yet environmentally minded building that they could be proud of. With more environmentally friendly heating, a larger preparation area, materials that could easily be maintained by the owners etc.
I have read most of the posts here and there seems to be a question mark over the real reason for the project. I feel that the couple involved feel strongly about their idea. They are passionate about wanting to give elephants a better future. They care deeply about wildlife. I spent many months with this couple and my conclusion is that they are genuine. They may make choices based on emotion at times and can sometimes allow things to get personal. But we are all humans and have our own faults. Looking at the financial side of things. I feel that money was not spent in the wisest way only because they were duped by the first contractor. Staying with them would have been immensely expensive in the end and they would have basically ended up with a steel cowshed.
There are about 100 elephants, theoretically looking for a solid home in europe. Two years ago EH nearly had their first elephant but by hook or by crook, the Spanish owners 'found' that she had a fall and had to be put down. All very suspicious from my point of view. The project owners also believe in respect for the present owners of elephants needing homes. Other sanctuaries, for example, in Tennessee, have a different strategy. One of aggressively chasing down the people who won't give these animal up to a good home.
I would like to think that after such a drawn out start up, EH will actually get a break and get the elephant in. Once this is done they then have to prove their professionalism and show they can do what they say they can do. This complete, they can then raise more money and awareness and hopefully start phase 2.
 
wissent said:
The project owners also believe in respect for the present owners of elephants needing homes. Other sanctuaries, for example, in Tennessee, have a different strategy. One of aggressively chasing down the people who won't give these animal up to a good home.
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The chasing, harassing, and lack of respect to the previous owners is the main reason why I despise many sanctuaries. This place might have gotten my respect (not that it matters much)
 
PossumRoach said:
The chasing, harassing, and lack of respect to the previous owners is the main reason why I despise many sanctuaries. This place might have gotten my respect (not that it matters much)
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It also depends on the organization that runs the sanctuary the Tennessee elephant sanctuary is run by PETA and the IDA and their a bunch of fanatics so I think that's the reason why so many people hate sanctuaries.
 
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