Elephants in british circus

Meg-T said:
After reading news articles etc. on the topic it all reminds me too much of a certain other circus containing elephants in the 80s-90s. I really hope that history will not be repeated...
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Don't get me started :p
Sad, one person gives this whole thing a bad name. At least he's been dealt with. Is it legal for them to put up a hidden cam like that though?
 
If only it was just one, Ashley-h!

I personally am not against circuses using animals per se. However certain spp. I think should not be used, and lions/tigers/elephants feature on this.

What I am definately against is poor care for the animals or even abuse, I think the circuses should be monitored VERY closely to ensure that a repeat of what I mentioned in my last post does not happen.

I think that some members of the family are still working in the sector, but I am not sure on this. And I very much doubt it is legal, but journalists and investigators are not likely to care! :p
 
I actually meant just this one guy from the GB circus, I know there's obviously other trainers who take the biscuit in other circuses. I think elephant's a controversial as it is, on the road even more so.
And yeah, great :rolleyes: Imagine if this got filmed in a zoo, oh the uproar lol.
 
People see photos of hotwired playing fields and elephants calmy being led to the seashore or a lake and think they must have a better life than in a zoo. Unfortunately the latest research on UK zoo elephants was not done with circus elephants being present in the UK, but unless their joints, gait and average longevity is significantly better than zoo animals, I wouldn't say there is much going for a circus lifestyle. They will have many hours confined to travelling wagons. Head weaving and other stereotypic behaviour is very common in circus elephants.
 
I think it's swings and roundabouts, circus elephants are confined to the wagons, but they're probably not there any longer than zoo elephants are indoors. And we should remember that one of the oldest eles in the UK is in a circus.
 
I read about this in a newspaper this morning:

Daily Express | UK News :: Beaten and hit with hooks, cruel fate of our circus elephants

but it is far more interesting to hear the defence at the bottom, it is stated there that the elephants on average travel for 3 hours once a fortnight I was amazed at this and thought it was very good considering. the circus debate already has its own specific link however I'd just like to add that apprt from individual trainers (ie the one in the article) the life of the circus elephant doesn't seem to bad so ong as certain liberties are taken (for example swimming in wild rivers etc).
 
@ Ashley: You don`t want to compare top-of-the-art, spacious elephant houses like the one in Chester with a circus wagon, won`t you? Even Whipsnade`s old barn is much more spacious for an elephant then any wagon or any tent (which requires that the elephants are chained during the night anyway). Plus many zoos let the elephants outside during the night. Howlett`s elephants don`t see the barn for months in summer.
 
They don't sleep in wagons, they sleep in a tent. A lot of zoo elephants are chained at night (including Chester's as I heard them being unchained). I know there's differences, but see other thread for my details as I can't be bothered to type them out.
 
ashley-h said:
They don't sleep in wagons, they sleep in a tent. A lot of zoo elephants are chained at night (including Chester's as I heard them being unchained). I know there's differences, but see other thread for my details as I can't be bothered to type them out.
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It would be hard to unchain them then. The zoo uses protected contact now, so the keepers don't go into the pens when the elephants are in there (hence the expensive CCTV and electric door system)

Perhaps the noise you heard was one of the doors opening?
 
Nope, no doubt about it. They were definitely being unchained, also seen them chained on zoo days. Probably went before the PC switchover.
 
Since many years Chester`s elephants are no longer chained at night, not even in the old house. And certainly not in the new house. The females and calves spend all nights together in the big indoor yards with sand floor and when the weather allows, the doors stay open so that the eles can choose whether sleeping indoors or outdoors. Plus they have lots of space for socialising, playing ect. which is important since elephants don`t sleep more then 4-6 hours each night. I think Chester was one of the first zoos in europe to realize how bad it is for elephants to lock them into small stalls during the night, or chain them which is even worse.

Some zoos (not sure about Chester) chain the elephants in the morning for an hour or so to give them a bath, footcare ect. YOu may have seen/heard that.

There is not even a SINGLE zoo left in the UK which chains the elephants overnight - the last may have been Woburn in the old house, but I am not sure about this and it is certainly no longer necessary in the new, very big house! Nowadays you have to search long and hard to find a zoo which still chains elephants overnight - in Germany, at least a dozend of zoos have stopped overnight chaining in the last years and now there are very few - maybe 5 or less!) left who still do that over here.
 
Fair enough, but then explain what I saw on zoodays which was filmed in the new house? All the adult females were chained to the floor whilst they were training a young male.
 
You must have seen the morning training/bath, during which most zoos that use direct contact chain the elephants for a short period of time for easier handling/medical procedures. I think not too long ago Chester changed to protected contact so I believe even that is no longer happening.
 
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