MARK
Well-Known Member
@Taccachantrieri
Wow, somebody in Zoobeat who reads scientific articles. Rarer than baby sumatran rhino!
For someone who has only been the forum for a short time what do you base this statement on?, please explain this
Elephants or 20 sp. of smaller animals?
- Thread starter Taccachantrieri
- Start date
For someone who has only been the forum for a short time what do you base this statement on?, please explain this
Oh sorry.
I don't assume that people on a forum about what they seen in a zoo should read
scientific articles. Or that it is some special flattery/unflattery that somebody reads/doesn't read them.
It was mostly relief to Taccachantrieri that you can talk about more specialized things. Without explaining basics e.g. "what is flagship species" or "zoos support national parks in Africa".
I don't assume that people on a forum about what they seen in a zoo should read
scientific articles. Or that it is some special flattery/unflattery that somebody reads/doesn't read them.
It was mostly relief to Taccachantrieri that you can talk about more specialized things. Without explaining basics e.g. "what is flagship species" or "zoos support national parks in Africa".
Taccachantrieri
Well-Known Member
On Vancouver island to the west of Vancouver, B.C., Canada in central montane areas lives the severally endangered Vancouver Island Marmot (The Vancouver Island Marmot - Canada's Most Endangered Species). In 2003 their total population was roughly 100 individuals, only 30 of which remained in the wild. The biggest threat for this species is logging. The marmot can still live, feed and reproduce in these areas and in fact is attracted to them over its traditional alpine meadow habitat. Predators too are attracted to these areas, like wolves, coyotes, and golden eagles. Denser vegetation in the margins of these small logged or cleared areas compared to alpine meadows gives the predators better cover and increases the efficiency of marmot hunting. As a result these areas act as a population sink drawing individuals from healthier populations in greater numbers than these disturbed areas can provide back. The Vancouver Island marmot population has always been too small to significantly support predator populations. If the marmots were to become extinct their predators will just make the slightest of dietary shifts to other species without a discernible negative impact on their populations. A conservationist just trying to preserve wolves in this area wouldn't need to worry about maintaining populations of Vancouver Island marmots. The same conservationist would also see greater importance in preserving sink areas for marmots because those same areas are source populations for wolves! If this area isn't close to other protected areas a wolf conservationist would think that money would be better spent to link up other mainland areas because Vancouver Island forests are more valuable to forestry than colder mainland areas with slower tree growth and smaller trees.
Reserves for Florida panthers may protect other species, but they may not be doing an efficient job of it as shown by Sandy J. Andelman, and William F.Fagan (2000. Umbrellas and flagships: Efficient conservation surrogates or expensive mistakes?. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America Volume: 97 Issue: 11 Pages: 5954-5959).
As for flagship species Okapikr said that "A species does not need to be large to be a flagship species, but many are", but in the same post and earlier ones listed off a lot of good smaller animal flagship species. Is the Montreal Biodome's conservation messages that hindered by the fact that they choose to exhibit flagship species such as beavers, and St. Lawrence fishes, instead of blackbears and beluga whales? It certainly costs them much less to exhibit the former, money that could be spent on research and conservation! Similarly why couldn't arctic Alcidae be used as flagship species for the arctic instead of polar bears? The great auk is one of 6 Canadian vertebrate species to become extinct, and the kittlitz's murrelet is critically endangered while the marbled murrelet is endangered (2007 IUCN Red List – Search). The polar bear is listed as vulnerable on the basis of decline in area or quality of habitat and a projected decrease in population- not on actual observed population declines. Penguins are often listed as megacharismatic species so the convergently similiar Alcidae could potentially be as well. Also, doesn't the desire for displaying large charismatic fauna drive Zoos to create zoogeographic areas like the African savanna or American Rockies which aren't under as much threat as other areas like the California Floristic Province or the Coastal forests of Eastern Africa?
Close to the Montreal Biodome is the AZA accredited Granby Zoo, which houses gorillas, african elephants, giraffes, and many other species. The Parc Aquarium du Quebec is also closeby and exhibits Atlantic and Pacific walrus, polar bears, harp seals, harpour seals, grey seals, and a main building holding aquatic displays from the Great Lakes to the Pacific Ocean. Both the Bowmanville Zoo (a private Zoo which supplies trained animals to media) and the somewhat appalling MarineLand are reasonably close to Toronto. I have also discussed the similiarities between the Toronto Zoo and the Montreal Biodome on an earlier post (Hint).
If people don't just come to Zoos for the animals wouldn't those people be impressed by one of the largest avairies in the world and the only one with significant water exhibits and underwater acrylic tunnels? If people are looking for different presentations isn't that exactly what a massive unexpected arctic bird avairy with hundreds maybe even a thousand individuals supplies?
Finally I spoke of some North American exhibits only housing large animals NOT one species. However, I was incorrect in this statement. Besides the large megafauna of elephants, tapirs, capybaras, lions, jaguars, camels, and zebras at the San Diego Zoo they will also use less than a sixth of the area to display sloths, secretary birds, pronghorn, and California condors. I also suppose that besides elephants the Los Angeles Zoo might have a couple of token small animal exhibits. Who knows if these small animals will make it to construction completion, after all the snowy owls, tundra swans, and grebes, were cut from the Detroit Zoos Arctic Encounter displaying polar bears, seals, and arctic foxes. Those small animal exhibits do make convenient cuts for budgets that are slightly higher than projected without hurting animal welfare or impacting visitor amenities.
As a bit of an interesting side note my local Calgary Zoo is involved in Vancouver Island marmot recovery programs, and has successfully bred many individuals that have been released into the wild.
Reserves for Florida panthers may protect other species, but they may not be doing an efficient job of it as shown by Sandy J. Andelman, and William F.Fagan (2000. Umbrellas and flagships: Efficient conservation surrogates or expensive mistakes?. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America Volume: 97 Issue: 11 Pages: 5954-5959).
As for flagship species Okapikr said that "A species does not need to be large to be a flagship species, but many are", but in the same post and earlier ones listed off a lot of good smaller animal flagship species. Is the Montreal Biodome's conservation messages that hindered by the fact that they choose to exhibit flagship species such as beavers, and St. Lawrence fishes, instead of blackbears and beluga whales? It certainly costs them much less to exhibit the former, money that could be spent on research and conservation! Similarly why couldn't arctic Alcidae be used as flagship species for the arctic instead of polar bears? The great auk is one of 6 Canadian vertebrate species to become extinct, and the kittlitz's murrelet is critically endangered while the marbled murrelet is endangered (2007 IUCN Red List – Search). The polar bear is listed as vulnerable on the basis of decline in area or quality of habitat and a projected decrease in population- not on actual observed population declines. Penguins are often listed as megacharismatic species so the convergently similiar Alcidae could potentially be as well. Also, doesn't the desire for displaying large charismatic fauna drive Zoos to create zoogeographic areas like the African savanna or American Rockies which aren't under as much threat as other areas like the California Floristic Province or the Coastal forests of Eastern Africa?
Close to the Montreal Biodome is the AZA accredited Granby Zoo, which houses gorillas, african elephants, giraffes, and many other species. The Parc Aquarium du Quebec is also closeby and exhibits Atlantic and Pacific walrus, polar bears, harp seals, harpour seals, grey seals, and a main building holding aquatic displays from the Great Lakes to the Pacific Ocean. Both the Bowmanville Zoo (a private Zoo which supplies trained animals to media) and the somewhat appalling MarineLand are reasonably close to Toronto. I have also discussed the similiarities between the Toronto Zoo and the Montreal Biodome on an earlier post (Hint).
If people don't just come to Zoos for the animals wouldn't those people be impressed by one of the largest avairies in the world and the only one with significant water exhibits and underwater acrylic tunnels? If people are looking for different presentations isn't that exactly what a massive unexpected arctic bird avairy with hundreds maybe even a thousand individuals supplies?
Finally I spoke of some North American exhibits only housing large animals NOT one species. However, I was incorrect in this statement. Besides the large megafauna of elephants, tapirs, capybaras, lions, jaguars, camels, and zebras at the San Diego Zoo they will also use less than a sixth of the area to display sloths, secretary birds, pronghorn, and California condors. I also suppose that besides elephants the Los Angeles Zoo might have a couple of token small animal exhibits. Who knows if these small animals will make it to construction completion, after all the snowy owls, tundra swans, and grebes, were cut from the Detroit Zoos Arctic Encounter displaying polar bears, seals, and arctic foxes. Those small animal exhibits do make convenient cuts for budgets that are slightly higher than projected without hurting animal welfare or impacting visitor amenities.
As a bit of an interesting side note my local Calgary Zoo is involved in Vancouver Island marmot recovery programs, and has successfully bred many individuals that have been released into the wild.