European (Tea)Cup - League C - Cologne vs London & Whipsnade

Cologne vs ZSL

  • Cologne 5/0 ZSL

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ZSL 3/2 Cologne

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ZSL 4/1 Cologne

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ZSL 5/0 Cologne

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

TeaLovingDave

Moderator
Staff member
15+ year member
The final contender yet to take part in a match steps forward; their rival now an old hand in the Cup, and the category in which they are to be judged is WATER - for the full parameters of this category I suggest you check the recent Zurich vs Basel match!

As usual, discuss and debate, and then decide :)
 
Initial thought is that Cologne wins quite easily. Substantial aquarium with both freshwater and saltwater fish, the best waterfowl collection in Europe and an excellent hippo/croc building. Having said this, the penguin and sea lion exhibits aren't great and waterfowl, flamingos etc. are (almost) all flight-restricted I believe, except for the Pink-eared ducks etc in the wired aviaries.

On the flip side London has a fantastic penguin exhibit but precious little else to really show in this category (couple of ducks and a couple of relevant terraria and aquaria in the reptile house and BUGS. Whipsnade has a few not particularly standout exhibits for hippos and penguins, plus an aquarium of their own which I don't believe is on the same level as Cologne's.
 
Initial thought is that Cologne wins quite easily. Substantial aquarium with both freshwater and saltwater fish, the best waterfowl collection in Europe and an excellent hippo/croc building. Having said this, the penguin and sea lion exhibits aren't great and waterfowl, flamingos etc. are (almost) all flight-restricted I believe, except for the Pink-eared ducks etc in the wired aviaries.

On the flip side London has a fantastic penguin exhibit but precious little else to really show in this category (couple of ducks and a couple of relevant terraria and aquaria in the reptile house and BUGS. Whipsnade has a few not particularly standout exhibits for hippos and penguins, plus an aquarium of their own which I don't believe is on the same level as Cologne's.

Doesn't London also have otters? Asian small clawed? Regardless I voted 4-1 Cologne before anyone commented because I also feel ZSL has very little compared to what I know about Cologne.
 
Cologne is amoung the hidden favourites to win this competition and looks like they will start strong.

One of the best Waterfowl collections in Europe. And again one of the best Zoo Aquariums anywhere. The amphibian collection in particular is one of the biggest and most interesting amoung the 24 teams. Both amphibian and fish species numbers are twice as bigger as what ZSL has to offer. Legendary Hippo house with Nyala, two species of Otters and we can probably count even the Nile Lechwe exhibit for this category ?

I am curious to hear more about London's new Secret Life of Reptiles and Amphibians building. It looks like a state of art educational display. Both ZSL Zoos have a decent Penguin exhibits and Aquariums and I actually keep good memories from the Common Hippo/ Pygmy Hippo exhibit at Whipsnade and Pygmy Hippos at London.

I am also thinking more about 4 -1 for Cologne, than 3 -2, but open to change my vote.
 
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The closure of London's aquarium means there isn't really much of a contest against Cologne which has overall strength in this category. But ZSL's vastly superior 2 penguin exhibits and plenty of other good ones means it deserves at least a point.
Cologne v Berlin would have been a much better fight !
 
Cologne v Berlin would have been a much better fight !

I'd guess Cologne vs. Burgers' Zoo in this category would have been even better. Half of Berlin's aquarium is under renovation and it is a very similar approach as Cologne anyway.

I am surprised about the order of matches anyway, this already being ZSL's fourth, but Cologne and Burgers' have been only once. I would have liked the order of matches to be a bit more bakanced.
 
I am surprised about the order of matches anyway, this already being ZSL's fourth, but Cologne and Burgers' have been only once. I would have liked the order of matches to be a bit more bakanced.

That's the problem with random chance, it can cause unintended clumping :rolleyes::D to avoid any accusations of leaning on the scales when allotting match position or category (for instance, front-loading the Cup with more exciting matches to ensure early participation, or to ensure one collection or another had a time-based advantage) both values were assigned randomly before things kicked off.

Which has it's downsides, but also has its upsides!
 
Cologne is amoung the hidden favourites to win this competition and looks like they will start strong.

Indeed!

I also want to highlight Colognes work with the Philippine crocodiles. Breeding without incubator and the work for releasing the offsprings to the wild.
 
Have only been to ZSL of the two, but this seems like a comfortable win for Köln, which all but entirely spells elimination for ZSL, even if they do win their final fixture against Beauval. In the previous tournament that used this six-per-group system, no zoo progressed with fewer than three wins, and ZSL has been able to claim just one of four - a particular shame seeing as they were surprisingly close in both of their first two. In theory, it is still possible to qualify, but very unlikely. As lintworm points out, the order of the matches is random, so keeping track of the standings is impossible.

Even still, I am, for the time being, going to give two consolation points to the English collection as opposed to one. The Whipsnade aquarium is brilliant - very small, but all tanks tastefully done, and the focus on smaller, rarer fish very welcome, with the same applying to the few relevant offerings in the adjacent Butterfly House. On balance between visitor and animal experience, Whipsnade also has the best hippo enclosures that I have seen for both species. London has a coral reef tank and a few other notable displays in 'Tiny Giants' (invertebrate house), as well as some very nice aquatic offerings in SLoRA (the new reptile house), a great penguin enclosure, and some really nice walkthroughs throughout (there are even some waterfowl in the main portion of 'Blackburn Pavilion,' which should render my all-time favourite zoo exhibit eligible). That said, both ZSL zoos, especially Whipsnade, have one major downside which has to be taken into account - an abundance of pinioned birds. I doubt that Köln is any different in this regard, and hence I haven't marked ZSL down for it, but if I am wrong in that assumption then it could be the final straw in prompting me to switch to a 4-1.

A few photos for ZSL to hopefully prompt some others to switch to 3-2.

Aquarium (Whipsnade):

full

@MagpieGoose - Madagascan tank.

full

@MagpieGoose - part of the semi-onshow 'breeding rooms,' where endangered fish such as pupfish are kept and bred.

Although it is small (only around ten to fifteen main tanks and a myriad of smaller ones), the whole aquarium is very tastefully done. Never overstocked, but fish always in large enough numbers. The focus is on endangered smaller species most of which breed here, and the landscaping is usually perfect. In several of the paludariums (can't remember whether or not the Madagascan one pictured above is one of them) small reptiles roam the terrestrial portion.

Hippo enclosures (Whipsnade):

full

@Green_mamba - larger of the two Common Hippo outdoor enclosures. I know that Köln has underwater viewing, but from what I can tell there is no grass, and the outdoor area doesn't even have a pool! Whipsnade's is huge with plenty of grass coverage, multiple, very deep pools and good separation options.

full

@MagpieGoose - larger (I think) of the two Pygmy Hippo outdoor enclosures, both excellent.

Penguins and waterfowl:
Spread throughout the zoo and sadly mostly pinioned (flightless penguins being an exception, of course), but in aesthetically appealing enclosures.

full

@Green_mamba - Northern Rockhopper enclosure, shared with a few ducks including European Eider. The whole area is a netted, walkthrough aviary, but as the ducks predate the netting (an avian influenza precaution) they are sadly still flight-restricted. Hopefully future generations of ducks will not be. African Penguins are also kept in a similar enclosure nearby.

full

@MagpieGoose - huge Wattled Crane (formerly moose) enclosure.

Tiny Giants (London):

full

@gulogulogulo - coral reef tank, some live, some replica.

full

@yousuf89 - Sunburst Diving Beetle enclosure, a personal favourite of mine with a sliding magnifying glass for better viewing.

Blackburn Pavilion (London):
Have already covered this in a previous thread, I will quote my description of it there here. This time, the species which render the main walkthrough viable are Hottentot Teal, Sunbittern and Black-winged Stilt. Some will, understandably, perceive it as less significant due to a relative low abundance of category relevant species, but I disagree as, with a large water feature in the centre and all three species kept in large numbers, they tend to constitute a great deal of my enjoyment of the walkthrough on visits. Blacksmith Lapwing are kept in some of the zoo's external aviaries.

For me, Blackburn Pavilion is one of the best-executed zoo exhibits of all time, with the brilliant repurposing of an old Victorian building into a modern bird house that maintains the beauty of older, traditional bird houses (use of wire rather than glass, for example, so that the wingbeats and calls of the birds can echo throughout the hall). The main walkthrough section seems to be quite a bit larger than either of the Frankfurt ones (hard to judge from photos, though, so I could be wrong), and offers the birds plenty of retreats and flight space. It is incredible to watch laughingthrushes flying around a huge aviary around your head, which the typical 'pheasantry' style enclosures so many zoos present them in will never offer.

I will admit that Blackburn does have one weakness - its geographical inconsistency, and for biome-based categories some members may view that as a weakness as it is not actually representing a temperate forest. But for those who don't, it is, for both the visitors and animals, one of the very best enclosures around for temperate climate birds and is probably (although I am no doubt looking through my all-time favourite zoo exhibit through rose-tinted sunglasses) better than Frankfurt's temperate bird offerings.

full

@amur leopard - entrance

full

@Dr. Loxodonta - entrance hall / lobby

full

@Crowthorne - main walkthrough

SLoRA (London):

I am curious to hear more about London's new Secret Life of Reptiles and Amphibians building. It looks like a state of art educational display.

SLoRA (an abbrieviation of 'the Secret Life of Reptiles and Amphibians') is indeed a very strong display educationally with detailed signage and semi-onshow breeding rooms. The most noteworthy features outstanding landscaping and at times abnormally large size of the enclosures are the most striking features, as well as the fact that many of the animals are endangered and some of them (Laos Warty Newts, Mallorcan Midwife Toad, Sardinian Brook Salamander and Big-headed Turtle being relevant here) breed at the zoo.

Another great feature is actually the water quality throughout, funnily enough! Clearly, a lot has been spent on filtration, and I suspect the Bristlenose Catfish that inhabit a few of the tanks also have a part to play.

The following photos are probably less than a third of what counts for this category at SLoRA:

full

@amur leopard - very good Philippine Crocodile pool.

full

@Maguari - pair of outstanding Chinese Giant Salamander enclosures.

full

@Dr. Loxodonta - housing the only Lake Oku Clawed Frogs in Europe and some very interesting algae.

full

@amur leopard - Roti Island Snake-necked Turtle enclosure with a very deep pool.

full

@amur leopard - Mallorcan Midwife Toad, with tadpoles in the pool and adults visible carrying eggs on their back on land.

Bird Safari (London):

full

@twilighter - a simple, but very large and well-stocked walkthrough aviary for a few pelcaniformes and ducks, backdropped by the historic Stork and Ostrich House.

Penguin Beach (London):

full

@amur leopard - huge Humboldt Penguin enclosure.

Into Africa (London):

full

@MagpieGoose - one of two similarly sized and very nice Pygmy Hippo enclosure. As only one individual is currently held, I believe both areas can be accessed and they therefore have double the space seen above.

The above overview doesn't show anywhere near the entirety of either zoo's offerings, but it does show the most noteworthy features. Other than the pinioned waterfowl, nearly everything ZSL has here is really good, with several rarities, breeding successes, and evocative displays. ZSL also performs a great deal of in situ conservation work around the River Thames. Couple that with some areas of weakness for Köln (many pinioned birds of its own, seemingly weak sea lion and penguin enclosures), and I feel as though ZSL definitely deserves two points, although I may change to 4-1 if someone provides a similar overview for Köln.
 
Have only been to ZSL of the two, but this seems like a comfortable win for Köln, which all but entirely spells elimination for ZSL, even if they do win their final fixture against Beauval. In the previous tournament that used this six-per-group system, no zoo progressed with fewer than three wins, and ZSL has been able to claim just one of four - a particular shame seeing as they were surprisingly close in both of their first two. In theory, it is still possible to qualify, but very unlikely. As lintworm points out, the order of the matches is random, so keeping track of the standings is impossible.

Even still, I am, for the time being, going to give two consolation points to the English collection as opposed to one. The Whipsnade aquarium is brilliant - very small, but all tanks tastefully done, and the focus on smaller, rarer fish very welcome, with the same applying to the few relevant offerings in the adjacent Butterfly House. On balance between visitor and animal experience, Whipsnade also has the best hippo enclosures that I have seen for both species. London has a coral reef tank and a few other notable displays in 'Tiny Giants' (invertebrate house), as well as some very nice aquatic offerings in SLoRA (the new reptile house), a great penguin enclosure, and some really nice walkthroughs throughout (there are even some waterfowl in the main portion of 'Blackburn Pavilion,' which should render my all-time favourite zoo exhibit eligible). That said, both ZSL zoos, especially Whipsnade, have one major downside which has to be taken into account - an abundance of pinioned birds. I doubt that Köln is any different in this regard, and hence I haven't marked ZSL down for it, but if I am wrong in that assumption then it could be the final straw in prompting me to switch to a 4-1.

A few photos for ZSL to hopefully prompt some others to switch to 3-2.

Aquarium (Whipsnade):

full

@MagpieGoose - Madagascan tank.

full

@MagpieGoose - part of the semi-onshow 'breeding rooms,' where endangered fish such as pupfish are kept and bred.

Although it is small (only around ten to fifteen main tanks and a myriad of smaller ones), the whole aquarium is very tastefully done. Never overstocked, but fish always in large enough numbers. The focus is on endangered smaller species most of which breed here, and the landscaping is usually perfect. In several of the paludariums (can't remember whether or not the Madagascan one pictured above is one of them) small reptiles roam the terrestrial portion.

Hippo enclosures (Whipsnade):

full

@Green_mamba - larger of the two Common Hippo outdoor enclosures. I know that Köln has underwater viewing, but from what I can tell there is no grass, and the outdoor area doesn't even have a pool! Whipsnade's is huge with plenty of grass coverage, multiple, very deep pools and good separation options.

full

@MagpieGoose - larger (I think) of the two Pygmy Hippo outdoor enclosures, both excellent.

Penguins and waterfowl:
Spread throughout the zoo and sadly mostly pinioned (flightless penguins being an exception, of course), but in aesthetically appealing enclosures.

full

@Green_mamba - Northern Rockhopper enclosure, shared with a few ducks including European Eider. The whole area is a netted, walkthrough aviary, but as the ducks predate the netting (an avian influenza precaution) they are sadly still flight-restricted. Hopefully future generations of ducks will not be. African Penguins are also kept in a similar enclosure nearby.

full

@MagpieGoose - huge Wattled Crane (formerly moose) enclosure.

Tiny Giants (London):

full

@gulogulogulo - coral reef tank, some live, some replica.

full

@yousuf89 - Sunburst Diving Beetle enclosure, a personal favourite of mine with a sliding magnifying glass for better viewing.

Blackburn Pavilion (London):
Have already covered this in a previous thread, I will quote my description of it there here. This time, the species which render the main walkthrough viable are Hottentot Teal, Sunbittern and Black-winged Stilt. Some will, understandably, perceive it as less significant due to a relative low abundance of category relevant species, but I disagree as, with a large water feature in the centre and all three species kept in large numbers, they tend to constitute a great deal of my enjoyment of the walkthrough on visits. Blacksmith Lapwing are kept in some of the zoo's external aviaries.



SLoRA (London):



SLoRA (an abbrieviation of 'the Secret Life of Reptiles and Amphibians') is indeed a very strong display educationally with detailed signage and semi-onshow breeding rooms. The most noteworthy features outstanding landscaping and at times abnormally large size of the enclosures are the most striking features, as well as the fact that many of the animals are endangered and some of them (Laos Warty Newts, Mallorcan Midwife Toad, Sardinian Brook Salamander and Big-headed Turtle being relevant here) breed at the zoo.

Another great feature is actually the water quality throughout, funnily enough! Clearly, a lot has been spent on filtration, and I suspect the Bristlenose Catfish that inhabit a few of the tanks also have a part to play.

The following photos are probably less than a third of what counts for this category at SLoRA:

full

@amur leopard - very good Philippine Crocodile pool.

full

@Maguari - pair of outstanding Chinese Giant Salamander enclosures.

full

@Dr. Loxodonta - housing the only Lake Oku Clawed Frogs in Europe and some very interesting algae.

full

@amur leopard - Roti Island Snake-necked Turtle enclosure with a very deep pool.

full

@amur leopard - Mallorcan Midwife Toad, with tadpoles in the pool and adults visible carrying eggs on their back on land.

Bird Safari (London):

full

@twilighter - a simple, but very large and well-stocked walkthrough aviary for a few pelcaniformes and ducks, backdropped by the historic Stork and Ostrich House.

Penguin Beach (London):

full

@amur leopard - huge Humboldt Penguin enclosure.

Into Africa (London):

full

@MagpieGoose - one of two similarly sized and very nice Pygmy Hippo enclosure. As only one individual is currently held, I believe both areas can be accessed and they therefore have double the space seen above.

The above overview doesn't show anywhere near the entirety of either zoo's offerings, but it does show the most noteworthy features. Other than the pinioned waterfowl, nearly everything ZSL has here is really good, with several rarities, breeding successes, and evocative displays. ZSL also performs a great deal of in situ conservation work around the River Thames. Couple that with some areas of weakness for Köln (many pinioned birds of its own, seemingly weak sea lion and penguin enclosures), and I feel as though ZSL definitely deserves two points, although I may change to 4-1 if someone provides a similar overview for Köln.

Good summaries there.

I think prior to your post ZSL is being talked down in this thread to an almost zero point status, but I'd argue the hippos and penguins at Whipsnade should garner more credit as should the Aquarium, which while clearly not as 'big' as Cologne, is well laid out and has some species functionally extinct in the wild where ZSL is leading conservation efforts.

Worth noting that the former Sitantunga enclosure is now home to Blue Cranes with a wetland like space with pond and rushes (the Blue Cranes bred in 2024 and White Stork were also housed there along with a young Red Crowned Crane in 2023). The Flamingoes also have an excellent breeding record and the flock also hosts the oldest Whipsnade resident. New blood was recently added to the group with four new arrivals from Chester being hand raised to join the flock.

Whipsnade has also made the move to feather clipping vs the entirely pinioned collection for some of the birds which, while requiring more handling and still not allowing flight in uncovered aviaries, has restored the potential to move birds into flighted aviaries if they move to other collections. It comes up on Keeper talks and you can see the different 'styles' of restriction on the birds in the lake (and the Eiders sharing with the Penguins) and some of the Cranes as they bathe and stretch. I think it's a positive to move away from so much permanent restriction.

The Whipsnade lake was also recently stocked with Bar headed and Emperor Geese as well as White Stork and Wattled Crane, Swan Goose and Mandarin Duck, which improved that space for waterfowl after the Pelicans moved on.
 
On the hippo enclosures, Whipsnade outdoors I would place as well above Cologne , but indoors Cologne is way better than Whipsnade. But London & Whipsnade both have above average pygmy hippo exhibits against nothing for Cologne
 
A tough one. They have some solid reps and both Cologne and Whipsnade have really solid hippo enclosures, albeit for different reasons. The aquariums are both pretty solid too.

Eh, maybe a slight edge towards Cologne.
 
Cologne really does have a lot to offer in this category, I don't have time for a complete rundown, but here are some highlights:

- A fantastic aquarium. It looks old-fashioned but has 50+ well-designeds tank with a very strong focus on endangered freshwater fish. The highlight is a large tank for Australian lungfish, which shows just how active these fish are, when given appropriate space

- The reptile section of the aquarium focuses mainly on SE-Asia and with breeding Philippine crocodile, some turtles and a fine selection of newts and frogs there a lot of strength here too. It is probably one of the very few zoos to house a species named after a current employee with the Ziegler's crocodile newt, named after their current curator who does a lot of fieldwork in Vietnam.

- The bird collection is one of the strongest on the continent. Apart from the 100+ duck species there is a large selection of waders from all over the world. Too many ducks are kept in open-topped exhibits, but the aviaries are well-designed

- The Hippodom which is a large and impressive house for common hippo, nile crocodile and others. I am not sold on the hippo exhibit itself, which lacks land area (as usual), but overall still a strong building.

- Bits and pieces for mammals throughout the zoo from nile lechwe to Californian sea lion in an historic exhibit.

Cologne certainly isn't flawless, but nevertheless has a lot of mass, and more important quality.
 
The opening match for Cologne proved to be an auspicious one:

Cologne - 89/125 points - 71.200%
ZSL - 36/125 points - 28.800%

Time will tell how the remaining matches will treat both competitors here, however!
 
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