European (Tea)Cup - League D - Tierpark Berlin vs Leipzig

[TeaLovingDave]

During the Cold War, a pair of East German collections rose above all others within that (relatively) short-lived country - Tierpark Berlin and Zoo Leipzig. Even now, I think few zoo enthusiasts would disagree that of the former East German zoological collections these are the very best of their kind, and now they come face-to-face within the current Cup.

The category is one we have already dealt with previously, and therefore needs no introduction or explanation - TEMPERATE FOREST AND WOODLAND.

I look forward to the discussion to come!

 

[twilighter]

Some of the Tierpark's Berlin strongest exhibits are most likely on the border between this category and Mountains and Poles, but they have some very distinctive features here as well. The two memorable opening paddocks with Woodland Bisons and Wisents, few species and subspieces at the Deer woods plus the Moose, Siberian Musk Deer etc The Wolves and Lynxes are gone now and the Red Panda is probably the only carnivore the could fit in this category? The Panda and the Tufted Deer have stunning exhibit, but they are debatable, because it is in the Himalaya zone. When I think of the bird collection, the Owls and Pheasant exhibits scatered around the park instantly come to mind, but there are definitely more at the enormous zoo grounds.

Leipzig has no North American or European zones, but the beautiful Siberian Taiger Taiga and Amur Leopard Valley fit well in this category. They also have Red Panda/Tufted Deer and Musk Deer exhibits, very nice Asian birds walktrough aviary and Koalas could play here as well.

Leipzig probably could survive in this category against some of the other Zoos in the competition, but the Tierpark is practically 140 hectares Temperate forest. It is more 4:1 than 3:2, unfortunately.

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

It's been years since I last went to Tierpark Berlin (I think it was back when they still had the American Black Bear visible from outside the entrance), but I do remember it had a very strong collection of... shall we say, colder-climate animals, many of which could definitely fit under Forests and Woodlands. Least we forget the "Deer Woods", as I call them, quite close to the entrance, with a pretty sizable collection. Even outside that, a good chunk of the zoo is basically set within a forested area if I remember correctly, so the aesthetics is there.

 

[SivatheriumGuy]

The Wolves and Lynxes are gone now and the Red Panda is probably the only carnivore the could fit in this category?

I guess the yellow-throated martens can qualify for this category?

 

[twilighter]

I guess the yellow-throated martens can qualify for this category?

Good point, especially the particular ssp. They have a well planted pair of exhibits too.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Anyone prepared to post a breakdown of what Leipzig has to offer in this regard?

If not, I'll have a crack at it sometime tomorrow.

 

[lintworm]

Tierpark Berlin isn't exactly unlucky when it comes to the categories they draw with each opponent

Zoo Leipzig really doesn't have too much to offer here (had it been grasslands, rainforest or water, Tierpark Berlin would have had a much bigger fight ).

Leipzig's strongest area is probably the tiger taiga. It isn't the largest tiger enclosure, but the 2 enclosures still hold up pretty well and the amount of off-exhibit separation here is impressive too.

Part of the larger exhibit

@Zebraduiker

Part of the smaller exhibit

@Toddy

This complex also has 2 small mammal enclosures for reed vole and Swinhoe's striped squirrels.

Adjacent is a newer pair of Amur leopard enclosures, which look great on pictures, but on closer inspection are actually quite small with few high climbing opportunities:

@devilfish

Other bits and pieces throughout the zoo include:

a red panda & tufted deer exhibit

@MagpieGoose

A quiet corner of the zoo has large musk deer & crane enclosures (as well as uncountable Eld's deer):

@LaughingDove

It is worth mentioning that Zoo Leipzig is the only reason why there are still musk deer in Europe, they have bred this species annually for decades, whereas many other zoos just fail.

Species wise the highlight in Leipzig is their pair of pangolin, which are kept in a pair of enclosures in the basement of the elephant house:

@LaughingDove

The former primate house has been changed into a koala house, with a modern interior and the classical look still very much present outside

@RonBurrgundy

@FunkyGibbon

There is a walkthrough with red-necked wallaby:

@Maguari

And in the tunnel to Gondwanaland the zoo keeps eastern quoll. Just as with the musk deer, Leipzig is the only reason this species is present in Europe, breeding large numbers of them and still being the only reliable breeder in Europe.

So not nothing, but compare that to all the pheasants, owls, hoofstock and carnivores of Tierpark Berlin, it is far too little to make it really competitive. So for me it is between a 3-2 and a 4-1, but given it is not really close, I am leaning towards 4-1, thank all the pheasants & laughingthrushes for that

 

[remar]

The Wolves and Lynxes are gone now and the Red Panda is probably the only carnivore the could fit in this category?

The dholes?

 

[twilighter]

The dholes?

Yes, I believe Chinese ssp can count also . I actually forgot that we count the Spectacled Bear as well.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

So not nothing, but compare that to all the pheasants, owls, hoofstock and carnivores of Tierpark Berlin, it is far too little to make it really competitive. So for me it is between a 3-2 and a 4-1, but given it is not really close, I am leaning towards 4-1, thank all the pheasants & laughingthrushes for that

Unless things have improved at Tierpark Berlin since my last visit in 2023, the number of aforementioned pheasants and laughingthrushes has *plummeted* in the last decade or so, and as such are perhaps not as massive a factor as you imply - at the time of my last visit the old Pheasantry and surrounding environs were full of empty and/or barely-occupied aviaries!

Tierpark Berlin isn't exactly unlucky when it comes to the categories they draw with each opponent

Looking ahead, there's a very brutal and unlucky match in the future for the Tierpark

 

[twilighter]

Unless things have improved at Tierpark Berlin since my last visit in 2023, the number of aforementioned pheasants and laughingthrushes has *plummeted* in the last decade or so, and as such are perhaps not as massive a factor as you imply - at the time of my last visit the old Pheasantry and surrounding environs were full of empty and/or barely-occupied aviaries!





Looking ahead, there's a very brutal and unlucky match in the future for the Tierpark

I also been there in 2023 and twice in 2024 and I didn't have the same impression, tbo. The collection seemed solid to me. With some duplicated but none unoccupied, nicely planted aviaries. Maybe we arrived at different moments ? I believe the species list was stronger in the past, but this is what I saw:

Temminck's tragopan / White crested laughing thrush

White eared pheasant / Spotted Dove

Coolorade Hill Partrage / Mt Omei liocichla

Blue crowned Laughing trush / Blue eared pheasant

Mikado pheasant

Cabot tragopan / Hwamei Melodious laughing thrush

Red billed blue Magpie

Black-troated laughing thrush

White crested laughing thrush

Cheer pheasant / Chinese Babax / Red-tailed laughing thrush

Swinhoe's pheasant / Black-headed Greenfinch / Taiwan liocichla

Mikado pheasant / Hwamei Melodious laughing thrush

Lady Amherst's pheasant / Golden pheasant / Mt Omei liocichla

Pekin robin / Vietnam Pheasant

White eared pheasant / Azure-winged Magpie

Himalayan Monal

Eliot's pheasant / Black-breasted Thrush

Vietnam Pheasant/ White-browned laughing thrush

Reeve's Pheasant/ Oriental Turtle Dove

Himalayan Monal/Red billed blue Magpie

Brown-eared pheasant / Red-faced liocichla

Silver pheasant / Chestnut - winged laughing thrush




Are Tierpark facing Plzen on Miscellaneous mammals ?

 

[twilighter]

Hopefully Leipzig have a chance to redeem themself and catch the last train for the Semis, but meanwhile Tierpark Berlin, without Lions, Hippos, Elephants, Rhinos or Great Apes gaining more and more points. And they haven't even draw their strongest categories yet !

To follow up the previous post: Tierpark Berlin has 14 species of Pheasants, 14 species of Laughing thrushes and 14 species of Owl currently. Many but not all qualify for this category.

Some of Berlin's strong sides for the current game:

Welcoming Wood Bison paddock. There is similar Wisent paddock just across the path.






Deer forest with Altai Maral, Bukhara Deer, Barbary Stag and Manitoba Elk







Moose exhibit


There are also Siberian Musk Deer, Mesopotamian Fallow Deer and Forest Reindeer at the Park


Red Panda/ Tufted Deer exhibit



Yellow-throated Marten two connected exhibits


Spectacled Bear / now with more enrichments and shared with Bush Dog exhibit.


Tasmanian forest kangaroo exhibit

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Another fairly open-and-shut result, but still an interesting discussion

Tierpark Berlin - 80/110 points - 72.727%
Leipzig - 30/110 points - 27.273%
.