European (Tea)Cup - League E - Chester vs Zoo Berlin

Chester vs Zoo Berlin - ASIA

  • Chester 5/0 Zoo Berlin

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chester 4/1 Zoo Berlin

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Zoo Berlin 4/1 Chester

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Zoo Berlin 5/0 Chester

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .

TeaLovingDave

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Staff member
15+ year member
This time round, we take a look at a pair of collections which are regarded by many zoo enthusiasts as the best in their respective countries - and indeed as candidates for the best zoo in Europe as a whole. As such, this match has a lot of potential to have a massive impact on the overall result of the Cup as a whole.

The category at hand is a very broad one, with plenty of scope for discussion, debate and analysis - ASIA. I look forward to seeing how everyone responds to this match!
 
This is definitely a close call and it all depends on what you value as a whole. However, I do think Chester has a slight (3-2) edge. Not to discount Berlin, of course, as they have some pretty impressive Asian species (and what I think may be considered one of the, if not THE, best Giant Panda exhibits in Europe), but I feel like what lets it down is a lack of real theming. The closest I could find were the Asian wing of the Bird House, which didn't really have any stand-out exhibits IMHO, and the new Rhino Pagoda, which I've already seen criticisms about. I guess the eagle section also qualifies to an extent.

And then you've got Chester, who also has a good selection of impressive Asian exhibits, but where it really shines is the theming, with dedicated zones. The Himalayan section wasn't complete when I went there last, but even beyond that, just look at what's on offer. Dragons in Danger? Realm of the Red Ape? Islands!? These don't just create exhibits for their Asian species, they take the theme and run with it. Islands in particular really stands out in this aspect. And, as a side note, whilst neither is super great (Whipsnade is my favourite for the species, at least for what I've seen), Chester has a better elephant enclosure, so there's that.

TL;DR - A very close vote, but I'm going for Chester because it has good themes along with good exhibits.
 
Not to discount Berlin, of course, as they have some pretty impressive Asian species (and what I think may be considered one of the, if not THE, best Giant Panda exhibits in Europe), but I feel like what lets it down is a lack of real theming.

And then you've got Chester, who also has a good selection of impressive Asian exhibits, but where it really shines is the theming, with dedicated zones.

Which all goes to show the impact that personal taste can have on the overall impact and appeal of a collection, as one of my favourite things about Zoo Berlin is that it isn't over-themed :rolleyes::D and although a lot of the recent developments at Chester *have* been very good, I have nonetheless felt that a lot of the potential has been spoiled by the desire to prioritise theming above all else!

As far as this match goes, it's a bloody close thing - at the moment I have parked my vote at 3:2 Chester but reserve the right to change my mind entirely on further consideration :p
 
Yea this is really close, I'm going to preemptively vote Chester as I think there is generally a higher standard across the board exhibit wise but I could definitely be swayed.
 
Arguably your toughest match so far, TLD :D - Having visited both collections, the vastness of taxa from Asia residing in both collections is very impressive. If this had been between Chester and Tierpark Berlin, I'd be more inclined to go with Tierpark for their superb Asian hoofstock.

Chester's taxa is vast, exhibit wise it also holds up with Islands and the smaller exhibits such as the Asian lion, Indian rhino and snow leopard exhibits really delivering for me. Islands really elevated Chester (IMO) to the next level of modern zoo exhibits, it is the pinnacle of a really well done zoo exhibit. A multitude of taxa, excellent signage and the breeding success Chester have now achieved since the exhibit has opened has to be highlighted. Chester have bred Malayan tapir, Malayan sun bear (first UK breeding), Javan green magpie, Sumatran orangutan, babirusa, Javan banteng, Sumatran tiger and the list goes on.

The Asian hoofstock at Zoo Berlin still peaks my interest, takin, ibex, blackbuck, Visayan warty pig, water buffalo etc are still in contrast, more unique than hoofstock species more commonly held in captivity. The Welt der Vogel exhibit features various continents, and although very impressive, in regards to this conversation, doesn't hold up to an exhibit such as Islands. Zoo Berlin's new Rhino Pagoda is the only exhibit I have not yet seen in person, therefore, further swaying my decision towards Chester.
 
Which all goes to show the impact that personal taste can have on the overall impact and appeal of a collection, as one of my favourite things about Zoo Berlin is that it isn't over-themed :rolleyes::D and although a lot of the recent developments at Chester *have* been very good, I have nonetheless felt that a lot of the potential has been spoiled by the desire to prioritise theming above all else!

When the animal collection itself is fairly equal, sometimes you have to look outside the box, y'know?
 
For me, nothing in Berlin exactly screams Asia. It took me a little while to think of anything Asian in the zoo actually because of the layout and how taxonomic it remains. You do definitely see good things here and there in this category: Empire of Cats is great and has a couple of Asian species, one of the halls in World of Birds too, the Rhino Pagoda is pretty good for the most part despite there not actually being space outdoors for all the rhinos iirc (?), the panda exhibits are exceptional, the coastal aviary too and of course there's the ibex rock.

On the flip side, the rest of the Asian collection is essentially a bunch of deer and swine patterned about, the elephants and a few of the primates in that area too. Unfortunately, particularly the latter two series of exhibits are pretty awful.

On the flip side, Chester has pretty much entirely modern exhibits of a very high standard (as is the case throughout the zoo really) and a strong breeding record. Hard to vote against it really, especially given the size of Islands. I think if you cobble together all of Zoo Berlin's Asian exhibits into one macro-exhibit a bit like Islands, it would feel a lot tighter in my head despite the shortcomings with the elephants and primates, but the reality in my view is that there are very few things that Berlin does better than Chester in this category, and lots that Chester does better than Berlin. Conversely, you could say if you value breadth of habitats that Berlin is better in this respect, thanks to ibex, macaques, the shorebirds and so on. I'd much rather be an Asian animal at Chester though.
 
There are at least two points missing at the discussion about Berlin. The bovine section has a lovely south east asian themed house and this is (maybe) the only zoo with Gaur, Banteng and Anoa next to each other. And the aquarium also offers something for this category (e.g. the gharials at the crocodile hall)
 
There are at least two points missing at the discussion about Berlin. The bovine section has a lovely south east asian themed house and this is (maybe) the only zoo with Gaur, Banteng and Anoa next to each other. And the aquarium also offers something for this category (e.g. the gharials at the crocodile hall)

I did consider the Gharial enclosure, but whilst it is the rarer (literally and in terms of captivity) Indian Gharial at Berlin, I still feel Chester counters quite nicely with its Sunda Gharial enclosure being part of the aforementioned Islands.

I just want to reiterate, I don't think Berlin Zoo has bad Asian exhibits as a whole - far from it. At their best, they're absolutely amazing. But I just personally like Chester's a little bit more and the fact that many of them are themed does genuinely help.
 
Just a question for clarification, does Indonesia count in the Asia geographic category? I ask this because I am sure I have seen it used in the 'Islands ' category? An area cannot count in 2 geographic zones surely?
 
Just a question for clarification, does Indonesia count in the Asia geographic category? I ask this because I am sure I have seen it used in the 'Islands ' category? An area cannot count in 2 geographic zones surely?

It does, much the same as Madagascar counts within the Africa category and the Caribbean islands count within the Latin America and Caribbean category - I have a feeling I explained the reasoning elsewhere in the current Cup, but definitely did in the previous Cup,:

As noted elsewhere in this thread (and in previous threads where the category of Africa came up and I emphasised that Malagasy fauna and flora were permissible for consideration) I have been treating biogeographic categories in a more broad sense to allow the maximum chance for collections to get a fair crack at proving their worth.

so Madagascar is applicable to both Islands and Africa, Caribbean is applicable to both Islands and Central/South America, and the Philippines and Greater Sundas are applicable to both Islands and Asia.

For added context, back in the original run of the Zoochat Cup helmed by @CGSwans , the category pretty much *only* included Madagascar and Indonesia, and didn't even include Australia or New Zealand!
 
Hopefully someone or other will provide a solid breakdown of both collections soon - failing this, I will try to get something written up tomorrow night!
 
Have visited Chester, but not Berlin, although it is probably the zoo I am yet to visit which I feel most well-informed on.

As a whole, Berlin's offerings appeal to me far more than Chester's in this category. Other than RotRA (the best orangutan enclosure that I have seen), their incredible work with Babirusa and the huge hornbill aviary in the elephant house, most of their Asian exhibits left me a little cold (the Eurasian Black Vulture aviary, which counts, was also brilliant, although most of the species are European). Monsoon Forest was closed on my visit, and as a result Islands felt really disjointed, with a lot of backtracking required, and not many animals seen. It also felt as though a lot had been spent on theming, and yet not for a single second was I convinced that I was anywhere other than rural Northern England. My visit was in winter, no doubt playing a part in the vegetation, but it was a very sunny day regardless. Other than that, I liked the new lion enclosure (the theming here struck me as far better-executed than in Islands, perhaps somewhat controversially) and the outdoor elephant enclosure, although I thought the indoors was a little poor, something that I am always surprised not to see other enthusiasts talk about. Most of the Asian hoofstock enclosures throughout were good, but nothing that I hadn't see done very similarly, often better, at most other British zoos; that said, the thick sandy substrate rather than dusty concrete in the Onager and camel enclosure was a nice touch. Dragons in Danger is mostly category species in solid enclosures, and I was pleased to see some nice aviaries for Asian birds throughout (the ones opposite the chimpanzees, for instance).

It is evident that Chester has a lot of real quality in this category, and I have no doubt that the circumstances of my visit are a big reason as to why I didn't take to most of it all too fondly. Aviaries with wave machines and steep, rocky exhibits for mountain bovids are two of my favourite exhibit types, and Berlin has excellent examples of both of them which are certainly on my bucket list. The Asian section of Welt der Vögel looks nicely done and probably has just as many rarities as Chester's various Asian aviaries. I also adore the look of those cattle houses and the fact that within them are both male and female gaur, which is such a hard thing to come by these days. The Aquarium no doubt adds a lot of real interest, too.

For all those above reasons I am really tempted to vote for Berlin here, and have done previously, but have switched my vote to Chester for the same reason that I leaned so heavily against Berlin in the Beauval thread: the Rhino Pagoda, and specifically the fact that some rhinos have to be locked indoors. Why any zoo would knowingly build an enclosure and then proceed to acquire more animals than it can handle without providing any means for separation other than locking an animal indoors is beyond me. The elephant enclosure is also poor and the orangutan one, while not awful, doesn't look great and is far inferior to either of Chester's.

For those reasons I am, very reluctantly, voting 3-2 Chester. Very much open persuasion.
 
but have switched my vote to Chester for the same reason that I leaned so heavily against Berlin in the Beauval thread: the Rhino Pagoda, and specifically the fact that some rhinos have to be locked indoors. Why any zoo would knowingly build an enclosure and then proceed to acquire more animals than it can handle without providing any means for separation other than locking an animal indoors is beyond me.

This claim keeps being repeated by you, but I have to say that on my two visits to the collection since the Pagoda opened (September 2023 and April 2025) I don't recall seeing any rhinoceros within the indoor portion of the exhibit at *all* - let alone rhinoceros being locked inside.

On a side-note, you'd really dislike Dvur Kralove on this account - as a *lot* of their exhibits are time-shared between occupants :p:D especially when it comes to some of their mid-size carnivores.
 
Haven't been to Berlin zoo as an adult and have been to Chester but having had a look at the galleries have voted for Chester at this point. I could be persuaded the other way as it seems both collections have a good offering for this particular category but Chester appears more comprehensive, so far.

To continue the debate on the theming point I actually like the Islands theming. I am not a theme park zoo fan in general but in Chester's case I find it contextual and I like the conservation messages and the layout which with the exception of a couple of choke points, keeps everyone spread out. And I so love the aviaries there, I could move in. Even though the boat ride thing is slightly daft, you get nice ground level views of the enclosures from it. I enjoy the mix of aviaries and I like the fact Chester mixes the exhibits up to include all sorts of animals as well as having the more traditional spaces near the chimps. The only slight down side for me is the recent snow leopard enclosure - it is a large and well constructed space but I found it a tad underwhelming and a bit 'have seen that before' but it's not to it's detriment I just found it less spectacular than it might have been, which probably says more about the high standard Chester sets than the enclosure itself.

Berlin's world of birds does sound and look great in the pictures and I like the hoofstock mix, but so far Chester seems to have a bit of the edge for me. Great match up though, something of a clash of the titans zoo wise.
 
This claim keeps being repeated by you, but I have to say that on my two visits to the collection since the Pagoda opened (September 2023 and April 2025) I don't recall seeing any rhinoceros within the indoor portion of the exhibit at *all* - let alone rhinoceros being locked inside.

On a side-note, you'd really dislike Dvur Kralove on this account - as a *lot* of their exhibits are time-shared between occupants :p:D especially when it comes to some of their mid-size carnivores.
You’re hyperbolising rather a lot. :p I’ve mentioned it on only one thread in the past, and that was in response to another member who, unlike myself, has visited Berlin, and brought it up. I will take your word for it, as you have a lot more experience with the collection than I do, and switch my vote back to 3-2 Berlin as this was the only thing preventing me doing so in the first place. If you’re correct, then I am very, very glad to hear this.

And yes, it sounds like I would dislike Dvůr Králové in that particular aspect quite a lot. It strikes me as wholly unnecessary (although there are of course circumstances where zoos can’t really avoid overpopulation). But it is irrelevant to this discussion as Berlin, most thankfully, don’t seem to perpetrate it any more. ;)
 
I loved Berlin zoo when I went in 2017, but I am afraid exhibit wise Chester will win every time.
Yes Berlin has giant pandas, gaur and gharial, which probably save it from a 4-1 vote from most that voted 3-2 Chester. Primate and carnivore exhibits will never be better in a city zoo
 
Berlin has the wonderful looking pagoda and while their indoor accomodation might be better looking, Berlin has so many rhinos only 2 can be outside any given at any time and 2 are locked indoors... Compare that with Beauval which doesn't have more rhinos than it can cater for...

I will take your word for it, as you have a lot more experience with the collection than I do, and switch my vote back to 3-2 Berlin as this was the only thing preventing me doing so in the first place. If you’re correct, then I am very, very glad to hear this.

The above post by lintworm is where I got that from in turn - and for what it's worth I did see two rhinos inside when I visited two years ago. Would be good to have confirmation from a Berlin regular though, maybe @markmeier knows?
 
But it is irrelevant to this discussion as Berlin, most thankfully, don’t seem to perpetrate it any more. ;)

Or alternatively, it's something that happens on a "as and when required" basis and I merely didn't observe it happening myself. My point is that the initial claim - that two animals are held indoors at all times - doesn't seem to tally with my observations.

Yes Berlin has giant pandas, gaur and gharial, which probably save it from a 4-1 vote from most that voted 3-2 Chester. Primate and carnivore exhibits will never be better in a city zoo

Given the fact that giant panda *are* a carnivoran, and even those who don't particularly like the species (cough myself cough) admit that the Berlin exhibit is excellent, your two sentences don't entirely tally with one another :rolleyes::D at any rate, I think that painting the match as "it's only saved from being a Chester 4-1 because Berlin has three species oddities" is severely unfair to both sides - if it were possible to vote 2.5-2.5 I know that I wouldn't be the only one choosing that option, and suspect that would be the majority choice overall.

Although time is growing short I'll try to get a selection of photos posted to show how close it really is :D
 
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