European (Tea)Cup - PRESTIGE LEAGUE - Paris Zoo and Menagerie vs Antwerp and Planckendael

[TeaLovingDave]

A very interesting match to end the round with, as the French duo and Belgian duo - neither of which, I suspect, were expected to come as far as they did within the Cup - finally come face to face, with the pivotal question being which is superior when it comes to the category of LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN.

Enjoy

 

[Père Damian's Deer]

I would love to vote for Antwerp and Planckendael as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure it can hold itself up against the power of having 2 dedicated South-american areas in Vincennes. I will however start off with a showcase for Antwerp and Planckendael. Antwerp does have more to it than meets the eye at first. So I myself might still change my vote ever so slightly.

Zoo Antwerp
Mammals:

@KevinB & @Kalaw (3rd picture) - Colombian Spider Monkey who have gained acces to the largest mandrill indoor enclosure, so they now have access to three large indoor enclosures.

@KevinB - Lots of enclosures for small Callichtrids, every species has access to two enclosures except for the Goeldi's Monkey. They are the studbook holder for the Golden-headed Lion Tamarin and do research in Brazil.
Species: Geoffroy's Tufted-ear Marmoset, Bearded Emperor Tamarin, Pygmy Marmoset.

@KevinB - A fantastic enclosure for Coypu, who have access to two sides by swimming underneath the bridge.

@Père Damian's Deer - Enclosure for one domestic animal and one small rodent.
Species: Alpaca, Patagonian Mara
Birds:

@KevinB - Fantasticly renovated aviaries for mostly parrot species. 3 enclosures count here with one of them being the fantastic tall aviary for Macaws. This area also contains a pretty sizeable indoor space for the birds to retreat to.
Species: Sun Conure, Ultramarine Grosbeak, (1st enclosure) Military Macaw, Red-billed Curassow, (2nd enclosure), Blue Ground Dove, Lilacine Amazon.

@KevinB - Large aviary for two Hyacinth Macaws

@KevinB - Fantastic aviary for 4 relevant species.
Species: Green Oropendola, Grey-winged Trumpeter, Socorro Dove, Ultramarine Grosbeak.

@KevinB - 3 South american aviaries in the Birdhouse. The 2 smallest are for Turqouise Tanager/Spangled Cottinga fledglings. The biggest one has 5 species
Species: Sunbittern, Spangled Cottinga, Brazilian Tanager, Swallow Tanager, Turqouise Tanager

@KevinB - there is also a small enclosure for Blue Dacnis

 

[Père Damian's Deer]

Reptiles:

@KevinB - Two places that have Green Iguana living in between them.

@KevinB - Antwerp has a nice wall of Frogs in some well designed terrariums.
Species: Anthonys Poison-arrow Frog, Blue Poison Dart Frog, Dyeing Dart Frog, Golden Poison Frog, Green and Black Poison Dart Frog, Imitating Poison Dart Frog, Amazon Milk Frog, Variable Poison Dart Frog, Yellow-banded Poison Dart Frog, Rio Cauca Caecilian.

@KevinB

@Toddy

@vogelcommando - A big amount of reptiles in the house are relevant to this category who have good well designed enclosures.
Species: Caiman Lizard, Cuban Iguana, Brazilian Rainbow Boa, Common Chukwalla, Gilamonster, Rio Fuerte Beaded Lizard, Guatemalan Spiny-tailed Iguana, Emerald Spiny Lizard, Red-footed Tortoise, Common Spiny-tailed Iguana, Desert Iguana.
Fish:

@KevinB - A nice few tanks are relevant to this category with some notable species.
Species: Black Pacu, Red-tailed Catfish, Red-bellied Piranha, White-blotched River Stingray, Ocellate River Stingray, Ripsaw Catfish, Silvery Arowana, more.

After writing this report I feel it might be closer than I first thought due to the amount of species in the reptile house and aquarium. I do think the Manatees, Jaguars and Sea Lions could be a decider. Planckendael showcase will follow.

 

[Père Damian's Deer]

@KevinB - Fantastic Butterfly house that contains some relevant species.
Species: Blue Morpho, Malachite Butterfly, Glasswing Butterfly, Tiger Longwing, Red Postman Butterfly,...

 

[Père Damian's Deer]

Planckendael:
Mammals:

@KevinB - Nice large forested enclosure for Bush Dogs

@KevinB - Great enormous enclosure for two small primates.
Species: White-faced Saki, Golden-headed Lion Tamarin.

@KevinB - Enclosure for Giant Anteater and Black-rumped Agouti

@KevinB - Enclosures for a few category relevant species. The two camelids have recently switched enclosures.
Species: Capybara, Southern Vicuña, Darwin's Rhea and Guanaco.

@Tiger - A nice mix of species.
Species: Chacoan Peccary, White-nosed Coati

@KevinB - Walkthrough for Patagonian Maras
Birds:

@snowleopard

@KevinB - Probably the highlight of the Americas area. Containing many different flying birds as well as two of the most famous birds.
Species: Humboldt Penguin, Chilean Flamingo, American Flamingo, Scarlet Ibis, Inca Tern, Black-faced Ibis, Black-necked Stilt, Black-necked Swan, Magellanic Steamer Duck, Chaco Chachalaca.

@KevinB - Military Macaw enclosure, with an additional aviary for Guira Cuckoo, Giant Wood-rail.

@KevinB - The Orangutan greenhouse contains a decent amount of Latin American butterflies. The vegetation also looks a bit better than the 2nd picture.
Species: Blue Morpho,...

 

[remar]

Can anyone do a quick summary for Paris. It seems like another quite close match to me

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I rather suspect that one of the main reasons people are voting for Paris is the mere presence of manatee - however, I am not entirely sure how much weight this should be given.

The exhibit - although not bad by any means - is definitely inferior to all but one of the other currently-extant exhibits for the species I have seen in Europe (Madrid is worse from my memory, but Burgers, Wroclaw and Duisburg are all better), and I was left somewhat unimpressed by the tropical greenhouse as a whole.

 

[pipaluk]

I rather suspect that one of the main reasons people are voting for Paris is the mere presence of manatee - however, I am not entirely sure how much weight this should be given.

The exhibit - although not bad by any means - is definitely inferior to all but one of the other currently-extant exhibits for the species I have seen in Europe (Madrid is worse from my memory, but Burgers, Wroclaw and Duisburg are all better), and I was left somewhat unimpressed by the tropical greenhouse as a whole.

It is not just manatees that gives Paris the edge here. For mammals I make it 30-16 for Paris , a total which includes Jaguar, puma, fur seal , bearded saki and woolly monkey amongst others not present at the Belgian zoos

 

[Philipine eagle]

Paris clearly wins on mammals.

And for birds: black-headed grossbeak, blue-backed manakin, Blue grossbeak, Green honeycreeper, blue crowned chlorophonia, Burnished-buff tanager, Large-billed seed finch, Yellow-knobbed curassow, Chestnut-bellied seed finch, Lazuli bunting, Ochre-marked parakeet: that's quality Antwerp can't match with Swallow tanager and Spangled cotinga.

I'm leaning towards 4-1 in favor of Paris.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

It is not just manatees that gives Paris the edge here. For mammals I make it 30-16 for Paris , a total which includes Jaguar, puma, fur seal , bearded saki and woolly monkey amongst others not present at the Belgian zoos

I very specifically didn't say that the manatees were the only thing of note which the Paris collections had - merely that I suspected most of the voters at the time of writing were starting and stopping at that point, given the fact very little had actually been said about the collections in question no different to your assumption in a previous round that the only reason people were voting for Leipzig was the presence of pangolin!

It should be noted that you (and subsequently @Philipine eagle ) were the first person to actually bother providing any detailed information about what the two Paris collections have to offer, and that having done so, further people have now shifted in that direction - so overall I reckon the discussion has gotten a lot more interesting.

That said, I would continue to hold that the Belgian duo are superior in terms of exhibit quality for this category even if the French duo hold a larger number of species overall - for instance, almost *all* of the bird oddities cited by @Philipine eagle comprise unsigned singletons in a (as already noted above) rather underwhelming tropical greenhouse - and that this applies to a strong enough degree that they merit the win. At the very least, it is a close enough thing that the current 4-1 vote for Paris is unfair in my opinion.

 

[pipaluk]

I very specifically didn't say that the manatees were the only thing of note which the Paris collections had - merely that I suspected most of the voters at the time of writing were starting and stopping at that point, given the fact very little had actually been said about the collections in question no different to your assumption in a previous round that the only reason people were voting for Leipzig was the presence of pangolin

I accept this is a similar situation, but I think although they make a difference, I don't think the manatee make the difference here that the pangolin probably made in the Leipzig match

 

[TeaLovingDave]

but I think although they make a difference, I don't think the manatee make the difference here that the pangolin probably made in the Leipzig match

And nor should it even if I do not agree that the pangolin at Leipzig had as strong an impact as you believe, I definitely think that they are more worthy of note - even if they haven't bred there and have therefore been eclipsed by Prague in recent years, they nonetheless represent a species previously-deemed impossible to keep alive for prolonged periods whose husbandry was "cracked" by Leipzig - than the manatee holding at Paris, given my prior statements about the latter exhibit being fairly middle-of-the-road.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Paris - 40/75 points - 53.333%
Antwerp and Planckendael - 35/75 points - 46.667%