Florida may use state land for zoo herds

That is interesting. I do think there are some genuine concerns about exotic species although Florida certainly has had some problems with that. I would hope that some of these that may be endangered could be kept in a less zoo-like setting and their descendants released into the wild someday. This could also be great for surplus zoo animals.
 
I live in Florida and I too support this idea. Florida is the second largest state east of the Mississippi (Georgia claims they are a few hundred square miles bigger) and has vast areas of wilderness. There is plenty of room for something like that, although I think something like "The Wilds" in Ohio or San Diego's wild animal park would be easier to sell to the public and the politicians. Animals breed in those places and people can visit them.

Wild animals escaping is something Florida has been coping with for a long, long time. I can still remember the snails that ate Miami from the '60s. Don't think having something like an elephant on the loose would be easy to recapture either. There was one that escaped from a circus or carnival several years ago in central or south Florida. IIRC it took many weeks to catch the big thing. Every time they would get close to it, it would just take off crashing through the brush and crossing swampy areas. I don't remember now how they caught it but it was getting along just fine and was quite healty.

They have plenty of Rhinos running around at The Wilds and I've never heard of any getting out. Here's a few photos:

[ame="http://www.flickr.com/photos/80431173@N00/5032861809/"]IMG_1240 -1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing![/ame]

[ame="http://www.flickr.com/photos/80431173@N00/5033489514/"]IMG_1216 -1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing![/ame]

[ame="http://www.flickr.com/photos/80431173@N00/5032717371/"]IMG_1723 -1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing![/ame]

There are plenty more in my photostream.

Flickr: grafxmangrafxman's Photostream
 
For a moment I thought the header said 'Florida may use state land for zoo nerds' - I was getting quite excited about a holiday home in the Everglades... :D
 
Maguari said:
For a moment I thought the header said 'Florida may use state land for zoo nerds' - I was getting quite excited about a holiday home in the Everglades... :D
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@Maguari: LOL. Thanks for the chuckle.

The proponents of the bill should make clear is that they want to use the footprint of land used by cattle and not convert the Florida wilderness to Africa or Asia.

As for the invasive species comparison that the bill's opponents raise, what the zoos are proposing is not in any way the same thing as bozos releasing their pythons into the Everglades or pet iguanas, etc. The giraffes, elephants, etc. would be monitored 24/7 and if anybody got out no doubt they would be put back in just as surely and quickly as they would if they were in the Lowry Park or Miami Zoos.
 
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The USA, especially where the winters are more temperate, is the logical last refuge for many large ungulate species if we do end up with a "demographic winter".

Space, climate, money. Europe can't compete on those fronts, and even if Australia didn't have so many odd laws about what can/can't be imported there are ethical issues about letting large hard hooved ungulates loose in areas of native vegetation.
 
DavidBrown said:
@Maguari: LOL. Thanks for the chuckle.

The proponents of the bill should make clear is that they want to use the footprint of land used by cattle and not convert the Florida wilderness to Africa or Asia.

As for the invasive species comparison that the bill's opponents raise, what the zoos are proposing is not in any way the same thing as bozos releasing their pythons into the Everglades or pet iguanas, etc. The giraffes, elephants, etc. would be monitored 24/7 and if anybody got out no doubt they would be put back in just as surely and quickly as they would if they were in the Lowry Park or Miami Zoos.
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I'm not sure we would want to hold the Lowry Park Zoo up as an example here, given their relatively recent history of dubious animal management (what, you mean Patas monkeys can swim?). While from all reports they have really tightened things up there, the past will linger in the memory of the press for a long time.
 
IanRRobinson said:
Space, climate, money. Europe can't compete on those fronts, and even if Australia didn't have so many odd laws about what can/can't be imported there are ethical issues about letting large hard hooved ungulates loose in areas of native vegetation.
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Australia has already seen the effect of some large herds of ungulates roaming around their native vegetation. I read somewhere that the largest herds of "wild" (i.e., feral) camels are in Australia. Can anyone confirm this? There are also herds of water buffalo and several species of deer (Monty discusses this on his recent photos that he posted).

From reading the article it sounds like what the zoos want to do is establish a large facility akin to the San Diego Safari Park or Whipsnade, but probably without visitors and with larger enclosures.

Regarding demographic winter, I am a diehard optimist that parts of Africa are going to remain wild and other parts in time will be restored as standards of livings rise. The U.S. went through a similar transition in the early-mid 20th century. Deer and waterfowl populations were driven to very small sizes. As standards of living increased the populations urbanized, the food supply became stable so people weren't needing to eat wild game, people moved to cities, and populations of animals started coming back. It is entirely possible that I am wrong about this.
 
DavidBrown said:
Australia has already seen the effect of some large herds of ungulates roaming around their native vegetation. I read somewhere that the largest herds of "wild" (i.e., feral) camels are in Australia. Can anyone confirm this? There are also herds of water buffalo and several species of deer (Monty discusses this on his recent photos that he posted).

From reading the article it sounds like what the zoos want to do is establish a large facility akin to the San Diego Safari Park or Whipsnade, but probably without visitors and with larger enclosures.

Regarding demographic winter, I am a diehard optimist that parts of Africa are going to remain wild and other parts in time will be restored as standards of livings rise. The U.S. went through a similar transition in the early-mid 20th century. Deer and waterfowl populations were driven to very small sizes. As standards of living increased the populations urbanized, the food supply became stable so people weren't needing to eat wild game, people moved to cities, and populations of animals started coming back. It is entirely possible that I am wrong about this.
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But do you think that the USA's advantages of great wealth, linguistic homogeneity, political stability (and indeed unity), and lack of outside interference gave it advantages that realistically may not be available to Africa for many, many years?

I fear that Europe - with its political instability leading to centuries of warfare, only ending almost within living memory - might be a more realistic model. Megafauna in Western and Central Europe has only started to make a sustained recovery in my lifetime.

And of course, in the UK we very successfully exterminated everything bigger than an otter unless it was of "sporting" interest, so I wouldn't presume that we can lecture anyone, anywhere !!
 
Out of curiosity, are there any actual zoos and species in mind?

And no, I don't think that antelope or zebras can become uncontrolled pests, without really gross neglect. Probably there would be only too many brave men with guns wanting to shoot them!

Might be good thing, given that species after species goes extinct in American zoos due to the lack of exhibit space. I am more worried that the idea will be un-viable than too successful.
 
I don't object to a zoo getting land to help breed animals, but the state shouldn't be giving them land on the cheap/free so that they make sure they can put a baby elephant on exhibit.

Florida property values are 50% of what they were 5 years ago. A zoo with the revenue resources of a Jacksonville or Miami Metro could pool resources to privately fund the project.
 
reduakari said:
I'm not sure we would want to hold the Lowry Park Zoo up as an example here, given their relatively recent history of dubious animal management (what, you mean Patas monkeys can swim?). While from all reports they have really tightened things up there, the past will linger in the memory of the press for a long time.
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That was Lowry Park Zoo director Lex Salisbury's fault. He was building his for-profit park, "Safari Wild" I believe, and he kept the monkeys on the island. The zoo had nothing to do with the monkey incident.
 
Alabama would be great for this as well. Lots of open space, even cheaper land.

I have been interested in starting an ungulate farm myself. I have good experience in cattle and about 100 acres right now.
 
Maguari said:
For a moment I thought the header said 'Florida may use state land for zoo nerds' - I was getting quite excited about a holiday home in the Everglades... :D
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You mean it doesn't say "Florida may use state land for zoo nerds"? oh man. :p
 
Florida supports important ecosystems itself and some of these are to a large extent on state land. I would support the use of state land for zoo herds but ONLY if it has been checked to be absolutely sure that the land they use isn't of high importance for native fauna and flora, which includes many endemics.

DavidBrown said:
Australia has already seen the effect of some large herds of ungulates roaming around their native vegetation. I read somewhere that the largest herds of "wild" (i.e., feral) camels are in Australia. Can anyone confirm this? There are also herds of water buffalo and several species of deer (Monty discusses this on his recent photos that he posted).
Click to expand...

The largest population of about a million of dromedary or Arabian camel are in Australia. They have been extinct in the wild for thousands of years and their semi-native range of Arabia and Sahara has big hunting pressure so it isn't that surprising. Of course there are big populations in captivity and even if all the feral populations were exterminated (they are all derived from domestic) it isn't a threatened as a species overall. They do cause some damage to native fauna/flora in Australia and since the population is rising it could become worse but so far they represent a far smaller threat than goats, cats, cane toads, rabbits, pigs and foxes. The water buffalo in Australia are largely restricted to the Arnhem Land region. They are derived from the domestic form which makes them practically worthless from a conservation point of view. Unlike if they had been derived from the threatened wild forms. Half a dozen of deer species have been introduced to Australia but they haven't done all that well and remain quite localised with no indication that this is about to change.
 
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