Singapore Zoo Gorillas for Singapore?

[zooboy28]

I know gorillas have been kept (notoriously unsuccessfully) at Singapore Zoo before, but now it seems like they may be keen to try again.

Previously, the zoo held four male gorillas in the 1980s and two in 1990, however all but one died from bacterial infection (see this thread for details: http://www.zoochat.com/266/singapore-148/). As such, the zoo (and the country) has been without this charasmatic and theoretically ideal, species for over twenty years. Chimpanzees have occupied the gorilla enclosure since then, and thrived.

However, this may be set to change. The ZAA 2012 Annual Report and Recommendations for gorillas (which essentially covers most of the 2013 calendar year) states that Rigo, the ~43 year old male gorilla at Melbourne Zoo has been recommended for transfer to Singapore (note it doesn't say the zoo per se) due to a lack of breeding success. He will be replaced at Melbourne with a male from Europe (Otana, b. 2001, Howletts, was recommended). Rigo will join two European males to form a bachelor group in Singapore. It is noted that this is conditional on mitigation of "parasites" in Singapore. No date is given.

In my opinion, gorillas are probably the best species for Singapore Zoo that it doesn't currently have, but obviously unless the bacterial infection can be prevented this seems like a very risky acquisition. Even sending Rigo and two other under-performing and/or over-represented male gorillas, relatively "unimportant" animals as they may be, seems very risky (and even unethical) to me.

I would be very interested to hear other's thoughts on this.

 

[Pertinax]

However, this may be set to change. The ZAA 2012 Annual Report and Recommendations for gorillas (which essentially covers most of the 2013 calendar year) states that Rigo, the ~43 year old male gorilla at Melbourne Zoo has been recommended for transfer to Singapore (note it doesn't say the zoo per se) due to a lack of breeding success..

It is good news that something is being done at last about 'Rigo's' failure to breed at Melbourne and I had heard recently he was to be replaced by a Howletts male. I felt it was fairly evident from soon after Rigo's addition to the group that he was not going to breed. I fear he just spent too many years living alone previously, though that may not have been the only contributing factor, his earlier background could have affected him also.

The problem with a male his age is always where to place him. It seems that the plan to send him to Singapore may have come about because nowhere else in Australia wants to start another male group at present and it would be nigh impossible to integrate him with the other adult or maturing males at Werribee or TP.

I'm wondering if Singapore are confident they have addressed the problem which caused the death of the young Gorillas they had previously? Two of the 1980's ones, 'Goliath' and 'Saul' were born at Bristol Zoo in the UK.(I don't know without looking it up, where the others came from.) I remember they did not live very long in Singapore. I heard that the bacterial infections they died from were contracted from the exhibit- either from the soil or from the water in the moat(can't remember which)- is it the same display that they would keep Gorillas in now? Even if Chimpanzees have lived in it successfully ever since, it doesn't mean Gorillas will too, if they are susceptible to different bacteria.

However, on balance, it sounds like a sensible move and the only realistic one for 'Rigo' now. But unless things have changed, it is a risk as you say. Presumbly the recommendations you have seen don't state where the other two males would come from(?) but they would presumably be much younger/immatures to try and establish a male unit successfully.

What area do ZAA recommendations for Gorillas cover- is it just the Australian region?

 

[zooboy28]

It is good news that something is being done at last about 'Rigo's' failure to breed at Melbourne and I had heard recently he was to be replaced by a Howletts male. I felt it was fairly evident from soon after Rigo's addition to the group that he was not going to breed. I fear he just spent too many years living alone previously, though that may not have been the only contributing factor, his earlier background could have affected him also.

The problem with a male his age is always where to place him. It seems that the plan to send him to Singapore may have come about because nowhere else in Australia wants to start another male group at present and it would be nigh impossible to integrate him with the other adult or maturing males at Werribee or TP.

I'm wondering if Singapore are confident they have addressed the problem which caused the death of the young Gorillas they had previously? Two of the 1980's ones, 'Goliath' and 'Saul' were born at Bristol Zoo in the UK.(I don't know without looking it up, where the others came from.) I remember they did not live very long in Singapore. I heard that the bacterial infections they died from were contracted from the exhibit- either from the soil or from the water in the moat(can't remember which)- is it the same display that they would keep Gorillas in now? Even if Chimpanzees have lived in it successfully ever since, it doesn't mean Gorillas will too, if they are susceptible to different bacteria.

However, on balance, it sounds like a sensible move and the only realistic one for 'Rigo' now. Presumbly the recommendations you have seen don't state where the other two males would come from(?) but they would presumably be much younger/immatures to try and establish a male unit successfully.

What area do ZAA recommendations for Gorillas cover- is it just the Australian region?

The two males that arrived in 1990 came from a Dutch zoo, not sure about the earlier import. The bacteria was soil-borne. Presumably Singapore are confident that they can prevent the bacteria killing more gorillas, the fall-out from a failed third attempt with the species would be much greater than it was 23 years ago.

I suspect that Singapore Zoo would build a brand-new enclosure for gorillas, and leave the Chimpanzees where they are (although hopefully they would create an African rainforest themed area connecting gorillas to the existing chimps and mandrills).

As for where Rigo goes, if Melbourne could hold him a little longer then he could be transferred to Mogo once their gorillas (the three Tarongan boys who haven't actually arrived yet) leave for NZ in 2015, although its entirely feasible that they won't be able to leave in 2015 anyway.

ZAA technically just covers Australasia, but their gorillas are basically governed by the EEP, so I think its likely that the recommendation came from "above" (or at least north!).

 

[Pertinax]

As for where Rigo goes, if Melbourne could hold him a little longer then he could be transferred to Mogo once their gorillas (the three Tarongan boys who haven't actually arrived yet) leave for NZ in 2015, although its entirely feasible that they won't be able to leave in 2015 anyway.

I suppose 'Rigo' could be held seperately at Melbourne, 'back in solitary' in the old quarters he used to live in, until a place was available somewhere else. I imagine they will want to bring this new(breeding) male in a.s.a.p now and not waste any more time with no breeding- its been quite a time already.

If he went on to Mogo later, where could they get some company for him?- a single male would be a very bad show in this day and age.

The 1980's Gorillas at Singapore were the two Bristol-bred ones I mentioned above, I wasn't aware of any others then.

 

[zooboy28]

I suppose 'Rigo' could be held seperately at Melbourne, 'back in solitary' in the old quarters he used to live in, until a place was available somewhere else. I imagine they will want to bring this new(breeding) male in a.s.a.p now and not waste any more time with no breeding- its been quite a time already.

If he went on to Mogo later, where could they get some company for him?- a single male would be a very bad show in this day and age.

The 1980's Gorillas at Singapore were the two Bristol-bred ones I mentioned above, I wasn't aware of any others then.

Yes, a single male is tricky, I'm not sure he would be allowed to live solo at Mogo.

In the 1980s apparently four were imported, all died, according to Zooish's post in the link I put in the initial post.

 

[Jabiru96]

I suppose 'Rigo' could be held seperately at Melbourne, 'back in solitary' in the old quarters he used to live in, until a place was available somewhere else. I imagine they will want to bring this new(breeding) male in a.s.a.p now and not waste any more time with no breeding- its been quite a time already.

If he went on to Mogo later, where could they get some company for him?- a single male would be a very bad show in this day and age.

The 1980's Gorillas at Singapore were the two Bristol-bred ones I mentioned above, I wasn't aware of any others then.

Maybe, if he were to stay in Australia, they could also move Yuska with Rigo (as she is past breeding age) to form a 'retirement' pair.

 

[Zooish]

I am not in favour of transferring the gorillas to Singapore as the soil-borne melioidosis is still present here (it infects about 50 people a year). There are no vaccines available and treatment takes very long. It is too big a risk.

The 2 males from Netherlands that came in 1990 were kept in a semi-indoor, concrete-floored enclosure. Yet one of them still succumbed to soil-borne melioidosis. I don't see how captive-born gorillas with no natural immunity to tropical diseases would be able to survive here.

 

[Pertinax]

Yet one of them still succumbed to soil-borne melioidosis. I don't see how captive-born gorillas with no natural immunity to tropical diseases would be able to survive here.

In that case I think its a very bad plan. It is like a death sentence, even if not immediately- sooner or later though.

I prefer the idea of 'retirement' with his old parter 'Yuska'- a much nicer idea IMO. Perhaps to another Australian Zoo that doesn't have Gorillas currently.

They did similar with the old pair 'Kumba' & 'Baffia' at Chessington UK. These two were born the same year as 'Rigo' and 'Yuska' and have a not dissimilar history, though in their case Kumba bred(i.e. naturally) & Baffia never did. Another old pair from Rotterdam were similarly retired to Fuengirola in Spain.

 

[zooboy28]

I am not in favour of transferring the gorillas to Singapore as the soil-borne melioidosis is still present here (it infects about 50 people a year). There are no vaccines available and treatment takes very long. It is too big a risk.

Well that is disappointing, I had thought that perhaps they had a vaccine or something, but if not then they definitely shouldn't be going there, as it is far too risky. It is presumably very unlikely to happen to, if the media heard about this, at least in Australia, Rigo's export would probably not happen.

In this case I far prefer the idea of "retiring" Rigo and a companion to another Australian zoo. Not sure which one though.

 

[DavidBrown]

I am not in favour of transferring the gorillas to Singapore as the soil-borne melioidosis is still present here (it infects about 50 people a year). There are no vaccines available and treatment takes very long. It is too big a risk.

The 2 males from Netherlands that came in 1990 were kept in a semi-indoor, concrete-floored enclosure. Yet one of them still succumbed to soil-borne melioidosis. I don't see how captive-born gorillas with no natural immunity to tropical diseases would be able to survive here.

This is very interesting. Are there any zoos in Southeast Asia that have gorillas, or is the melioidosis problem present throughout the region?

 

[zooboy28]

This is very interesting. Are there any zoos in Southeast Asia that have gorillas, or is the melioidosis problem present throughout the region?

The bacteria is widespread throughout the region (Zooish said it was found "in many areas including Northern Australia, Thailand, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Taiwan, the Indian subcontinent, Africa, Central and South America, Papua New Guinea and even New Zealand!!!"), but perhaps some gorillas have immunity to it. At least two zoos have/recently had gorillas:

Pata Zoo in Bangkok, Thailand, did have a lone gorilla, not sure if they still do or not (hope not): http://www.zoochat.com/1107/pata-zoo-bangkok-86909/index2.html

Ragunan Zoo in Jakarta, Indonesia, has a trio of gorillas too, in what is one of the world's best gorilla enclosures: http://www.zoochat.com/641/gorillas-enclosure-schmutzer-primate-centre-205848/ These animals came from Howletts, UK, in 2002.

 

[vogelcommando]

Hopefully the bacteria-problem can be solved otherwhile re-introduction-programms can also be very tricky - Zooboy28 says it´s also found in Africa.........

 

[FBBird]

Aspinall's earlier Gorilla reintroductions in Africa suggest a susceptibility to local disease.
That generation of Bristol Gorillas do not appear to have been very robust -- most of the ones that stayed in the UK didn't make old bones

 

[devilfish]

Pata Zoo in Bangkok, Thailand, did have a lone gorilla, not sure if they still do or not (hope not):

I'm not sure how much access to soil this individual had, but judging from.reports and photos, it doesn't look like much.

 

[Chlidonias]

I just came across this old thread again, and thought I'd check on what the current situation was. The gorilla Rigo at Melbourne unfortunately died of a heart attack just two months after this thread was started (http://www.zoochat.com/24/rigo-silverback-dies-329171/).

Has there been any other talk of gorillas going to Singapore since (@ Zooish)?

 

[Zooish]

Has there been any other talk of gorillas going to Singapore since (@ Zooish)?

Haven't heard anything, though I must admit I haven't been keeping an ear out for this. In any case, gorillas aren't top of the zoo's African species wishlist - it wants okapis.