Greens Import Ban Plan

But the sort of low-end issue that the ALP could accomodate them on in return for all those lovely preferences?

Hell no.

For a start, it's a low-end issue because the Greens don't care about it nearly as much as a lot of other things. The Greens are much more closely tied into the ethical farming movement than they are the hardcore animal rights activists that would take on zoos. They'll quite possibly - if they even prove to be effective balance-of-power operators, which I'm not convinced about - demand some movement on battery hens and live cattle exports.

Second, the wording of the policy is such that the same justifications used to import species now - breeding, education, ambassadorship - can all fall underneath the "conservation" banner. Yes, Lee Rhiannon led the charge against the elephant importation - but you've got to understand that Rhiannon has at least as many detractors in that party as she has supporters. Especially since she's given them plenty of headaches and bad headlines in NSW in recent weeks.

Finally - don't let News Ltd fool you. The Greens are not nearly as wrapped up in their own ideology as most people think. They're quite capable of using populism as much as the big parties. And blocking zoo animals? There's simply no mileage out of it. The only people who would support it are already voting Green.

It's not zoo imports that I'd be worried about - it's if they manage to turn attention towards the fact that saltwater aquariums - both public and private - are overwhelmingly stocked with wild-caught animals, including on the Great Barrier Reef. Non-interference with wild populations IS a central tenet of Green philosophy. The aquarium industry may yet find common cause with the fishing industry on that one!
 
Hell no.

It's not zoo imports that I'd be worried about - it's if they manage to turn attention towards the fact that saltwater aquariums - both public and private - are overwhelmingly stocked with wild-caught animals, including on the Great Barrier Reef. Non-interference with wild populations IS a central tenet of Green philosophy. The aquarium industry may yet find common cause with the fishing industry on that one!

Well Personally I think that is an issue that does need to be looked at. Not closing the industry or banning aquariums (private or public) but the manner of where the fish are coming from needs to be addressed.
 
Because they attract many fringe dwelling loony groups which no other party will accept, such as Animal libbers and extreme left wingers who want the government to contol everything they do.

We are likly going to get the greens controlling the senate and possably if they win some electrates they will be needed for the governement to remain in power. If that happens Joolya will give them whatever they want.
 
Because they attract many fringe dwelling loony groups which no other party will accept, such as Animal libbers and extreme left wingers who want the government to contol everything they do.

Wow.

:eek:

Talk about an agenda.

You don't vote for Family First by any chance (since we're talking about 'looney groups')?

:rolleyes:
 
no I dont.

But I will be filling out all my senate preferances and putting greens last. Bob Brown may come across well in the media and appear to be sensable but, if their policies were put in place it would damage the country and more importantly our freedoms. They are no longer an environmental party and are more interested in social engineering and changing Australia for the worse.
 
Well Personally I think that is an issue that does need to be looked at. Not closing the industry or banning aquariums (private or public) but the manner of where the fish are coming from needs to be addressed.

Absolutely. I'm all for stringent (as long as it is science-based) regulation. Though the Greens are not known for taking the middle course on such policies, partly because their vote is drawn from people who have, shall we say, a *detached* relationship with the natural world. They just *adore* nature... but rarely go anywhere near it. So their policies on some matters are more inclined towards the popular (at least within the Greens-voting demographic) than the scientific.

That's why I'm not optimistic about the Greens holding the BOP, though I'm less strident in my criticism than Monty. If Labor and the Liberals are, say, the Ford and Holden of Australian politics (each trying to provide a comprehensive, though fairly similar, range of policies to the broad middle class), then the Greens are somewhat akin to, say, MINI: their brand fits within the lifestyle and identity of inner metropolitan areas. This is a shame, because there are a great many genuine Green movement members of the party, especially in Tasmania. But if you ever campaign *against* the Greens in an inner-urban area, as I have for a friend, you'll see that most of their supporter base wouldn't know a eucalyptus from a ukulele.
 
I agree with GCSwans. I recently read an article about the direction of the greens, where they explained the 3 types.
There are the green greens who are the older ervironmentalists who fought to save the Franklin river such as Bob Brown.
Then there are the blue greens who are the inner city professionals with a large income who used to be liberals and believe voting green will protect the environment.
Then there are the red greens such as Lee Riannon who are very left wing and often came from animal libberation or the comunist party such as Riannon.

All 3 have different agendas but the red greens are the most dangerous and are increasing in power and numbers as the green greens numbers fall.

As a farmer many of the greens policies make things harder for me. I also like zoos and would like to see more animals not less which the greens dont agree with. In my area we recently had most of our redgum forests taken for national parks for green preferances in NSW. These forests are the last healthy redgum forests and are healthy because of their managment which has now been removed. Sustainable logging and grazing has kept the tree density at sustainable levels while helping controling fires, and the wildlife has done well because of the fire control and healthy trees. A large number of people were employed in the logging as well and their jobs have gone.
I also fish and hunt which are activities the greens are against.
 
Those are interesting names:

Then there are the blue greens ...

Blue-greens is also a name applied to a type of alga (cyanobacteria) that causes algal blooms.

Then there are the red greens such as Lee Riannon ...
And, of course, red algal blooms are exceedingly toxic ....

:p

Hix
 
Here is the article I reffered to using the colours to describe the greens.


Red and Green and everything in between - Jack the Insider Blog | The Australian


Firstly, the Greens are split along state lines. The NSW Greens and the SA Greens get on like a house on fire. But the NSW Greens are not so chummy with the Tasmanians and for God’s sake, don’t mention the WA Greens when you’re within earshot of the NSW Greens. The streets could run red with Green blood.

But it gets worse. The Greens are further split along ideological lines. There are three main species of Greens. The best way to remember this is to follow the colour spectrum. There are green Greens, blue Greens and red Greens otherwise known as “watermelons” (green on the outside, pink on the inside).

Green Greens (evangelis environmentalis) are veterans of environmental battles from days of yore. They have spent their youths chained to trees and all own a collection of embarrassing photographs where they’re seen wearing chunky woollen jumpers and those silly beanies with ear flaps. They embody what many people think the Greens really should stand for but their numbers are dwindling and with the retirement of their eco-warrior, Bob Brown looming, their influence within the party will diminish.

Then there are the blue Greens (medicus soccermumus). The former MLA for Fremantle, Adele Carles - her of the ill-fated love affair with WA Treasurer Troy Buswell - is one such creature.

Blue Greens are those of a conservative political bent who have roused politically in something of a mid-life crisis. Known to have voted Liberal in the past, they now furrow their brows and fret over climate change, environmental destruction and what is to be done about the children.

Blue Greens are a relatively rare species and have little authority within the party.

Red Greens (rufus hammerandsicklus) are neither environmentalists nor SUV driving mothers of 3.4 children. They are political refugees from the far left. Not welcome in the Labor Party since the 1970s, these folk wandered the political wilderness until the Green movement appeared on the political stage and they found a home.

Ms Rhiannon is a walking exemplar of a red Green.

It would be hugely amusing, not to mention colourful to watch the vicious in-fighting proceed in Senator Brown’s wake but those of the watermelon hue, experienced as they are in the cut and thrust of trade union activism and having hijacked inner suburban community groups, are well versed in the politics of whatever it takes.

When Senator Brown does retire, the red Greens will have the green greenies and the soccer mums for breakfast.

The Greens are the beneficiaries of protest votes from those across the spectrum who feel disillusioned with mainstream politics. That’s fair enough in the context of the miserable set of choices available to voters from the major parties in the forthcoming election. The problem is you can’t be sure what a vote for the Greens will get you.

Ms Rhiannon’s snubbing of Senator Brown is a sign that Senator Brown is on the way out and does not command the authority within the party he once did. Once he’s gone, the party of environmental conscience will go with it.

In other words, if you thought the Greens couldn’t move any further to the left, you’re in for a shock.
 
Ok. First of all. Jack the Insider is a joke of a column - any journo who won't use their actual name for their half gossip, half opinion column isn't worth the cost of newsprint in my view.

Second, The Australian has a particular editorial bent that is wholeheartedly opposed to the Greens having any sort of influence in the political system. That's part of a wider News Ltd campaign against the Greens that has gone on for at least a decade. You watch - in the last week of the election campaign News Ltd metropolitan tabloids will have front cover splash coverage of the Greens' supposedly "secret policies" to turn Australia into an eco-Marxist state. They do this every election. Now, before you accuse me of conspiracy theories - note from posts above that I'm not a particular fan of the Greens. The vaunted "secret policies" are actually taken verbatim from their freely available, published policy platform. Nothing is secret, and usually the policies are deliberately shorn of the context and reasoning behind them.

Third, "Jack the Insider" has it maybe half-right. He's right about the state breakdowns of the Greens. This is an artefact of their development as a series of independent state-based movements that only coalesced into the national party in the mid-1990s. So yes, there are differing cultures and prevailing points of view in the differing state branches of the party. This is aided and abetted by what is, in my personal view, a healthy internal party culture of local branch autonomy. But that's beside the point.

The concept of the "red Greens" being on the verge of "eating for breakfast" the old Greens and "blue Greens" (Jack has their origin and make-up quite wrong, btw) is absolute nonsense. Nothing but cheap and tawdry fear-mongering. Are there Trots in the Greens? Yes. Are they the majority? No, not at all. And if they ever become the majority the Greens will pay for it at the polls long before they can ever shut down zoos. In the mean-time, Lee Rhiannon is the only "red Green" with a reasonable chance of winning a Senate seat. Sitting Senators Brown, Green and Siewert are all veteran eco-warriors. Hanson-Young and Ludlam are gen Y Greens - urban, young, professional, socially liberal and economically quite conservative. Concerned about sustainability, but with a sort of background that blinds them to some of the compromises involved with economic and ecological management.

As for being Communists... they've almost certainly never been in a factory stop-work meeting in their life. It's these Gen Ys - who are mistaken for "blue Greens" but who never voted Liberal (many are not old enough to have been voting before Howard came to the leadership) who are taking over the party. And far from being any factional civil war... it's just a function of generational change and the growth of the party beyond the old circle who fought the good fight at the Franklin River. They aren't refugees from the Communist Party - if anything they're refugees from the now defunct Centre faction of the ALP and the nearly-defunct Democrats.
 
I would just like to add that not all Green voters live in inner cities. i know many Green voters who are rural. These tend to be the ones who read and put into practice the lifestyle as written about by such magazines as Earth Garden and Grass Roots. One famouse Green voter is the author and garden guru Jackie French. Of course their votes get lost in those electorates because most of them are safe National seats.
Also any article written in The Australian is going to be biased towards the Right.
Monty I don't know anything about the Redgum issue in your area, so I'm not going to comment on that however I would be interested in your view on on Peter Andrews and Natural Sequencing Farming.
 
I would just like to add that not all Green voters live in inner cities. i know many Green voters who are rural. These tend to be the ones who read and put into practice the lifestyle as written about by such magazines as Earth Garden and Grass Roots. One famouse Green voter is the author and garden guru Jackie French. Of course their votes get lost in those electorates because most of them are safe National seats.
Also any article written in The Australian is going to be biased towards the Right.
Monty I don't know anything about the Redgum issue in your area, so I'm not going to comment on that however I would be interested in your view on on Peter Andrews and Natural Sequencing Farming.

Yes, this is quite correct.
 
I know it is a humorous article but that does not mean there are not factions in the greens with very different beliefs and aims. They also do attract people with very radical views other parties wont support, such as a bann on impoting animals for zoos. This paper may also be seen to be anti green but many of the others are pro green and would never seriously question their policies.

I sort of hope they do get enough power to put into practice enough of their policies to make people realize how these policies effect them. It would not take long for their power station and coal policy to lead to power shortages and doubling of the price of electricity. Even the greens voters wont like the power going off, and their greatly increased electricity bills. One advantage the greens have had is to be able to promise the world and never have to implement those policies. I like the country we have, and believe their policies will change the country and reduce our standard of living.

I don't know much about Peter Andrews but I think it has a lot to do with building the soils. Everyone wants this and is one of the reasons most farmers direct drill now and don't cultivate unless necessary. His system may be very good where he is but in other environments things do not work the same.
 
I know it is a humorous article but that does not mean there are not factions in the greens with very different beliefs and aims.

Never said that.

They also do attract people with very radical views other parties wont support, such as a bann on impoting animals for zoos.

True.

This paper may also be seen to be anti green but many of the others are pro green and would never seriously question their policies.

Not really true. The News stable are all virulently anti-Greens for the simple reason that most of their readership would never vote Green. Same for the West Australian. The Fairfax city papers - the SMH and The Age - are semi-friendly: enough of their readers support the Greens for them to give the party objective, rather than subjective coverage, but this is balanced out by having just as many Liberal-voting readers. The AFR, if anything, is indifferent.

About the only mainstream media where you see the Greens getting a good run is *parts* of the ABC (chiefly those parts with audience interaction, such as Q and A or ABC talkback radio). But to a significant degree, mainstream media ignores the Greens because Greens voters ignore mainstream media.

I sort of hope they do get enough power to put into practice enough of their policies to make people realize how these policies effect them. It would not take long for their power station and coal policy to lead to power shortages and doubling of the price of electricity. Even the greens voters wont like the power going off, and their greatly increased electricity bills. One advantage the greens have had is to be able to promise the world and never have to implement those policies. I like the country we have, and believe their policies will change the country and reduce our standard of living.

This is a simplistic view of balance-of-power politicking. As a minor party, the Greens are not going to be creating legislation. It's not as if, by having 10% of seats in the Senate they get to make 10% of policy.

Rather, my concern is that, partly because of the way they are structured, with bottom-up direct democracy influencing policy, they will be unable to use the BOP effectively to amend government legislation. *That's* how you're supposed to use the BOP, and it's something the Democrats were experts at.
 
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