Twycross Zoo Himalaya

[sooty mangabey]

How is work getting on at Twycross, with the new entrance and the 'Himalaya' exhibit?

Their website is, of course, worse than useless here. it gives no information at all, beyond saying that it is due to open in march 2010. However, this is from an old piece of information, though, so may well have been superseded by events.

And on the subject of new developments at The International Primate Centre (or whatever it likes to call itself), has anything happened to the carnivore (?) enclosures that were being built on the far side of the elephant paddock?

 

[CZJimmy]

According to the zoo's twitter feed, Himalaya will open on the 22nd March. (see post on Feb 17th)

Presumably, due to it being an entrance hall, it will be possible to view the snow leopards without paying for entry to the zoo. (see post on Feb 18th)

Bizarrely, there will be leaf-cutter ants in the toilet blocks in the new build. (see post on Feb 18th)

Twycross Zoo (TwycrossZoo) on Twitter

 

[Nisha]

Snow Leopard have been sourced from Tama Zoo in Japan (male) and a female from Nordens Ark Zoo in Sweden. Not sure if they have arrived at Twycross yet though.

When do they plan on opening the Hyena exibit?

 

[Shorts]

And on the subject of new developments at The International Primate Centre (or whatever it likes to call itself), has anything happened to the carnivore (?) enclosures that were being built on the far side of the elephant paddock?

From various signals (such as all references to them seemingly disappearing from zoo literature & signs) I think it's safe to say plans are "on ice" at the moment -don't hold your breath.

 

[Pertinax]

From various signals (such as all references to them seemingly disappearing from zoo literature & signs) I think it's safe to say plans are "on ice" at the moment -don't hold your breath.

I was thinking the same thing- things have gone very quiet about those enclosures. My guess is they may still happen, but not until well after the new Entrance Area is all up and running.

 

[sooty mangabey]

According to the zoo's twitter feed, Himalaya will open on the 22nd March. (see post on Feb 17th)
Twycross Zoo (TwycrossZoo) on Twitter

Thanks for this.

I know it's sort of the point of Twitter, but the things on this Twycross feed are just banal to an extraordinary degree.

And the sound of having an exhibit viewable from the toilets is massively unimpressive too.

It's been said before, and I hope that all works out well with these new developments, but this is a seriously odd zoo. i still can't quite believe that snow leopards were chosen as the animal to feature in the new entrance. It's wrong on just about every level!

 

[taun]

It's been said before, and I hope that all works out well with these new developments, but this is a seriously odd zoo. i still can't quite believe that snow leopards were chosen as the animal to feature in the new entrance. It's wrong on just about every level!

Why?

 

[sooty mangabey]

Why?

1. There are many high-profile species at the zoo already whose housing is in desperate need of replacement.
2. As a zoo that specialises in primates, it would make sense to have a primate species as the welcome to the zoo.
3. The first exhibit that visitors see should be something showy, engaging and accessible. Great animals though they are, snow leopards are often asleep (!) and thus do not fulfil these various criteria.

 

[Pertinax]

1. There are many high-profile species at the zoo already whose housing is in desperate need of replacement.
2. As a zoo that specialises in primates, it would make sense to have a primate species as the welcome to the zoo.
3. The first exhibit that visitors see should be something showy, engaging and accessible. Great animals though they are, snow leopards are often asleep (!) and thus do not fulfil these various criteria.

I could not have put it any better...

I think they are pushing this area as a 'business-meeting' or hospitality venue as well as the Zoo entrance, so the obvious backdrop would be an eyecatching and very visible, active species such as (perhaps) Javan Langurs(both colours) or Ruffed Lemurs etc which might have fitted the bill better on both counts 2 & 3. For No 1 it would need to be Chimpanzees!!
I still cannot quite get over them building this while the old Chimpanzee cages and other substandard areas like the Tapir enclosure, are still in use.

 

[taun]

1. There are many high-profile species at the zoo already whose housing is in desperate need of replacement.
2. As a zoo that specialises in primates, it would make sense to have a primate species as the welcome to the zoo.
3. The first exhibit that visitors see should be something showy, engaging and accessible. Great animals though they are, snow leopards are often asleep (!) and thus do not fulfil these various criteria.

Sorry just did not quite understand where you were coming from but I do agree with all three.

 

[rubymurray]

Don't know if any of you guys have ever looked at these Session Timeout but I have found references to an original plan for both Snow Leopards and Bonobos for the entrance building. Have a look at the original design brief here http://publicdocuments.hinckley-bosworth.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/00048678.pdf, I'm sure I found a drawing a while back as well. I don't know why they changed that, whether it was cost or what.

I do agree with much of what you guys say on here around some of their strange decisions but I perhaps look at things from a slightly different angle in that conservation and wildlife is an interest but not my life passion. I read Mollys Zoo again recently and I think it gives a good indication as to how this zoo was built i.e very haphazardly in all regards. That means business processes, services and infrastructure etc etc as well as enclosures. I think for them to take advantage of the enormous potential that the zoo has with the huge catchment area and a good collection they need to improve on so many things, not just what you see on the surface.

Take the old chimps, Mollys Zoo suggests that these are largely rescue chimps so what would be the sense in spending vast amounts of money on providing them with new enclosures for a short-term end when the money could do long term good somewhere else in the zoo. I appreciate that nobody wants to see poor quality enclosures, I certainly don't, but there has to be a long term view taken surely?

 

[Pertinax]

I think for them to take advantage of the enormous potential that the zoo has with the huge catchment area and a good collection they need to improve on so many things, not just what you see on the surface.

Take the old chimps, Mollys Zoo suggests that these are largely rescue chimps so what would be the sense in spending vast amounts of money on providing them with new enclosures for a short-term end when the money could do long term good somewhere else in the zoo.

You are very right in your first statement.

Regarding the Chimpanzees. I can see her thinking here, but many of those old Chimps have now outlived Molly and they are still there and given Chimpanzee lifespans in captivity, likely to go on some while yet. Because they are nearer the end of their life than the beginning isn't a good reason I don't think for not upgrading their conditions and social situation. Also, if a large 'communual' chimpanzee area was built, to be used by all the chimps as one big group, it could/would still be used by the younger generations of Chimpanzees they have, long after the oldest ones had passed on, so it would never remain unused.

Molly tended to build enclosures just for the animals they had then, rather than with any longerterm vision in mind e.g. Gorillas breed a couple of times so they build another house just like the first one but hardly any different or bigger. I think Molly couldn't envisage that it would be possible to unite ALL (or nearly all) the chimps with their various different backgrounds, old, younger, humanised, normal etc into one or more large social groups. Monkeyworld and other places have shown this can be done (even with fully adult Chimps) with good results and that is still what I'd like to see happen at Twycross.

 

[sooty mangabey]

I think for them to take advantage of the enormous potential that the zoo has with the huge catchment area and a good collection they need to improve on so many things, not just what you see on the surface.

I wholly agree with this. Twycross has to be a nice place to visit, and that means decent loos, cafes, shops and so on. I'm not sure I would have put the visitor centre ahead of some really pressing animal developments, but I can totally see the logic of building such a structure. The zoo is crying out for all that it will provide. It is simply the choice of snow leopards as a key-note species with which I - and I think some others - take issue.

The document to which a link is provided above is very interesting reading. Clearly the architect can see the problems with the zoo and its hideous (lack of) design (although possibly he is being too kind to the zoo in his reference to the extent to which that design is of benefit tot he animal residents). It is very interesting to see that the original plan was for bonobos to be featured in the entrance complex. What a pity that that idea was jettisoned!

What is extraordinary in all this is that Twycross - as it is is now - is undoubtedly a bit grotty as a visitor experience, and has massive flaws as a zoo with enclosures which are, mostly, at best ugly and at worst inadequate - and yet it still attracts a large number of visitors. Either those who criticise the zoo are wrong (possible!) or the potential for a genuinely good zoo in this area is just astronomical - how many visitors would an Emmen or an Amneville get if it was dropped down into the English Midlands?

 

[Pertinax]

What is extraordinary in all this is that Twycross - as it is is now - is undoubtedly a bit grotty as a visitor experience - and yet it still attracts a large number of visitors. Either those who criticise the zoo are wrong (possible!) or the potential for a genuinely good zoo in this area is just astronomical - how many visitors would an Emmen or an Amneville get if it was dropped down into the English Midlands?

I'm sure it is its location that scores all the points. They have the huge conurbation of all of the East of Birmingham on one side, and conurbations of Derby, Leicester, Nottigham, Coventry etc all within easy reach. No other large zoo anywhere near and it represents a good day out 'in the country' to any family with a car, or a coach trip for those without, and in my opinion is without doubt one of the easiest Zoos in the whole country to access.

Most general Zoo visitors are not too discerning about enclosures etc so the grottier bits of Twycross get overlooked. I am not surprised they are replacing the Portakabin style entrance and that dreadful little cafe though- all virtually unchanged as long as I can remember!

 

[Maguari]

I'm sure it is its location that scores all the points. They have the huge conurbation of all of the East of Birmingham on one side, and conurbations of Derby, Leicester, Nottigham, Coventry etc all within easy reach. No other large zoo anywhere near and it represents a good day out 'in the country' to any family with a car, or a coach trip for those without, and in my opinion is without doubt one of the easiest Zoos in the whole country to access

...by car. By public transport it's near impossible!

But yes, assuming you've got a car it's certainly one of the easiest zoos to reach - even from Chesterfield it's only an hour's drive and once you get to the M1 you only have to change roads twice.

It was one of the standard school trips hereabouts.

 

[Pertinax]

...by car. By public transport it's near impossible!

It was one of the standard school trips hereabouts.

yes, I can imagine...

On some of my visits there have been huge numbers of schoolchildren there who all arrived in Coaches. They all race around with their little questionairres under various degrees of control (from good to nonexistent) but they don't seem to really take in anything about what they see.

 

[Pertinax]

I Twycross has to be a nice place to visit, and that means decent loos, cafes, shops and so on. I'm not sure I would have put the visitor centre ahead of some really pressing animal developments, but I can totally see the logic of building such a structure.

The interesting fact remains that they had very good financial resources at the end of the Badham/Evans era- enough to cover a great deal more than just this new Entrance area I think. That is why I don't understand the continued presence of substandard exhibits at the Zoo.

 

[rubymurray]

I think it's a combination of location and family friendliness. More by luck than design I think the zoo really lends itself to young families, they can take a picnic and a football and have a great day out. Bigger zoos like Chester are fantastic but a day at Chester is like a day at Alton Towers, come the end of the day you're totally knackered even if you haven't got a family of young kids to deal with. 500k visitors a year says to me that Twycross has unbelievable potential if they can get it right.

On the prioritization of the visitor centre over improvements of enclosures, if you have a zoo that on busy days causes traffic to back up for miles down the road because your entrance is so inefficient then if you improve animal enclosures first you encourage more people and only magnify that problem. I think they've seized upon the opportunity of outside funding from various agencies to sort the entrance issue out once and for all so that future growth in visitor numbers can then be accommodated. They've also solved the problems of energy needs, shop capacity, toilets and decent eateries at the same time.

Definitely agree that primates HAD to be involved in the new building, if you decide to call yourself World Primate Centre you've got to make primates your focus. It seems incoherent to me.

On the Chimps, I didn't think it possible to group them all together but you guys would know better than me on that one.

 

[Pertinax]

if you have a zoo that on busy days causes traffic to back up for miles down the road because your entrance is so inefficient then if you improve animal enclosures first you encourage more people and only magnify that problem.

Definitely agree that primates HAD to be involved in the new building, if you decide to call yourself World Primate Centre you've got to make primates your focus. It seems incoherent to me.

On the Chimps, I didn't think it possible to group them all together but you guys would know better than me on that one.

1. I've(fortunately ) never been when its like that, but I can certainly see why they have done this Entrance area now- it was long overdue as its never been changed really since the zoo opened.

2. 'World Primate Centre' I feel is a bit of a misnomer anyway- they do have a very comprehensive collection of Primates( the biggest in the UK) but many species don't breed, there are hardly any ongoing breeding groups and they have never done any reintroduction, scientific or research work with Primates, which you might expect from the name. The fact that they aren't putting a Primate in this new exhibit just seems to highlight that.

3. Regarding the Chimpanzees. It might be a gradual and tricky process, with careful management needed, and would certainly need suitably designed housing to do it, bu I think it would be possible to bring all (or very nearly all) the Chimps together in one large group.

 

[Shorts]

On the prioritization of the visitor centre over improvements of enclosures, if you have a zoo that on busy days causes traffic to back up for miles down the road because your entrance is so inefficient then if you improve animal enclosures first you encourage more people and only magnify that problem.

Pertinant point, but the latest attempt at improving the car park (the second or third "patch up" in about 10 years to my memory) still seemed very poor during my most recent visits. It was basically a layer of meshed plastic sinking in mud.

I really don't understand why they can't bite the bullet and construct a proper car park once and for all. Virtually every other significant zoo (in terms of visitor numbers and collection size) I can think of have decent concrete or gravel, well-drained, car parks.

It just seems very poor planning and vision, unless anyone can say I'm wrong or not fully informed?