I need help making a very important dessision in ref to my project

Miniaturezoo954

Well-Known Member
As some of you know, my passion for zoos have taken me in a journey to create the biggest and most detailed miniature scale zoo in the world. For the past few weeks i have been very involved in an extremely important part of this area, the zoo entrance.


For some time i had different ideas about this portion of the project, but as of recently, after receiving my primate building, i was so happy that i decided to work with the same artist in the next project right away: The zoo entrance, a realistic scaled down copy of the gorgeous Berlin Zoo elephant gates.
I never intended to copy any specific zoo structure, since the design of the diorama park is my own, but this gate has haunted my dreams for some time, and when i think of an entrance i think of this particular one.
So since i proposed this project to the artist, i have been envisioning this massive gate in my zoo, i wanted to have done:

The elephant gate itself
and the two kiosk buildings to the right and left, as well as fences and walls, this was a 3 phase project, and the artist gave me a timeline of 6 to 8 months to complete this project, one structure at a time.

yesterday i received an email with a final estimate of the cost of building this section of the zoo, and let me just tell you that it is almost double of what i estimated, i understand it is a very time consuming project, since the artist needs to do a lot of wood carving, and i had told him, that because of the historical value of this piece, i wanted as close to real life as possible, so a lot of small detail.

Just so you get an idea the gate itself would stand at over 3 feet tall, and one of the buildings, the actual entrance building would have to be very big.
So now i face a great problem, should i go ahead with this project, if i do, i will pretty much use all the funding i have left for this year, and that is not something i'm looking foward too, for two reasons:

1. the artist that makes my miniature birds, just finished working in an exihbit for the Chicago museum of natural history, and he will be open for work starting late march, i wanted to take advantage of this since this guy is bussy almost all year, and the most that i have been able to get from him is two species at a time.
I now have the opportunity of ordering from him 50 to 60 species of birds at one time, this would be very expensive, but i had already envisioned this great sub-tropical free flight aviary, for the zoo entrance, one of the reasons i came to tampa to study the lowry park's zoo entrance aviary, and a very important task i will take advantage off when i visit san diego in april.

The free flight aviary, takes very little money, since i will just need to buy materials, like the wood poles, netting, building accesories and so on, i have more than enough plants already to fill this place, and i'm supposed to get another large tropical tree species, a kapok tree this month.

But if i go for the Berlin Gates, i will run out of funding for the rest of this year, and to be honest i will not be able to put that kind of funding together for some time, since i have other plans in my life starting on 2010 with my girlfriend.
So either i do the great entrance now, or i move on, and do a much simpler entrance, that i could design. I love the Berlin zoo entrance, but at the end i'm working on a unique zoo, so is not like i will violate a historical order, if i do something different.

But is either the Berlin zoo entrance or a lesser detailed custom entrance, with the large free flight walk thru aviary.

Please help me make this dessision based on your zoo knowledge and what you think would be more impressive.

Let me note, that i already have close to 480 bird species already done and in my collection, so this additional species would just be a real pleasure to have because of the rarity of them.

help me deside
 
Seems like there are other things you need the money for, and you could design a cheaper one yourself which you might like even better, or model it on another building, like the entrance to Budapest zoo maybe.
 
I wouldnt go into great detail replicating Berlin's entrance, but use the concept and definitely design and build something on your own...it will just as unique with the rest of your zoo and if it were mine it will definitely be more sentimental to myself. There is nothing better than being proud of something you did yourself...well except taking off my boots at the end of the day. :)
 
Budapest zoo entrance is phenomenal, a great choice, but i really don't think it would be that much cheaper than berlin to duplicate, there is a lot of detail, carving and the painting in the arch, if i move away from Berlin, then it will have to be a much simpler gate that i can design with the help of local carpenters.

The only plus side is that if i make the entrance locally i can design something very large, and add all the detail myself.
The artist that i used for the primate house, lives in Texas so shipping along costed me 420 usd, The Berlin gate was going to be in 3 sections, so shipping cost would have been reduced big time.

But the cost of the structure is massive, and i do not think i can bring the price down too much.


Thank you Ashley i now have the first opinion and i will decide based on what the forum recomends, since i'm so in the middle when it comes to this that i don't know where to lean, but now i know what you would prefer.
thank you
 
Just my two cents on the subject:

Why not go for a simple, modernistic design for the entrance building? (You have mentioned that one of the things that interest you is the variety of building styles from different architectural eras that exists in old zoos.) That way you could spend more money on the actual animal buildings, which perhaps might be of bigger interest to you than the entrance building?

Also, when you showed up here at ZooChat some months ago, you wrote that you were just about to receive the first one of your custom made building models - possibly the primate building, if memory serves me right? It has not been delievered yet? Please remember to show us pictures of it as soon as possible when it has been delievered to you!

As I have mentioned, I am very interested in the concept of models. Hope you have checked out the model pictures that was just posted by Okapikpr, for instance:

http://www.zoochat.com/744/model-construction-66274/
 
Hi Okapi and Dan,


First off, thank you for your sugestions, i understand both of your points, and might i add, that i couldn't agree with you more about the safisfaction of making something yourself.

Some things i have to leave to the artists since they are the pros.

Okapi,

If i move away from the Berlin Gate, and that seems to be where my mind is going right now, the structure i have in mind will look really nothing like it, but imagine a mix of a safari theme entrance with a little of of a modern touch, something you could see at Disney's animal kingdom,

I would use the local advantage to design many smaller buildings to go around the entrance, like a gift shop, a restaurant, and restrooms all within
the theme. Since i have a lot of accesories and plants the details will not be a problem.

Dan,

The original plan was to have the entrance be part of an aquarium building, all very modern, i think i talked to you about that.
The problem with that is that there will not be an aquarium as of right now in the plans, all the zoos aquatic exihbits will be part of other exihbitions, like the reptile house, and several others.

The aquarium was an idea that did not live long, because the space that it was going to need, to make it look realistic, it was just not possible.
I had to decide do i want to limit the available space for zoo exihbits, and i plan on keep on adding new species every year, so i will need a lot of space for mammals, especially ungulates.

The primate house structure is ready, and in my house, ups did a little damage to it on the trip, so i have been fixing it, and i have to finish working on the outside area and on the indoor exihbits, but as soon as i get back to miami, i will post pics of the construction. it takes a very large area of space.
 
I would say go for the aviary as, judging by posts you have made in other threads, you seem to like birds. Also, zoos are for animals not entrance buildings!
 
Wow the model construction of okapi looks great, did not know he was into this, that is really great, can't believe i missed it.


Okapi what brand of clay did you use to make the moats and elevated rocks, and do you know if is water proof, i'm having a bit of a problem with a large underwated exihbit i want to make for Hippos, and i really don't want to use cement, since it will be very heavy, if i could find a brand of clay that is water resistant, i would mold and then paint, and fill up with artificial dirt (leftover coffee grains) and plant the top of it, creating a natural underwater view inside an enclosure.
 
Thank you Redpanda, that is very accurate, and you are right on the money, i do love birds, and i really wanted to order so many rare and endangered species this time.

And about the entrance, i guess i just wanted to make a great first impression in a project that has taken so much already, but i allways had a goal of making this massive zoo in under 50 000 dollars, and so far i have done a terrible job with budget i have gone over already close to double, and i can not continue buying and buying, i need to start putting it all together, and that is what i was doing this year, and i left the entrance for last.

So i think i will just have to design a monster entrance myself, that i can have minimal help building.
 
I bought the cheapest clay of colors that somewhat resemble dirt...cant remember if i bought it at Walmart or Michael's. The clay is all laid on a scrape particleboard wood frame - I dont think I even glued it down, i just let it settle . As for water, I just used a small sheet of blue cellophane, it does a good job with making the right shadows to kinda have that underwater feeling. So i didnt worry to much about using the real stuff (water) - it was a zoo design project for one of my zoo classes in college.

Check out the other photos:

http://www.zoochat.com/744/model-construction-66271/
http://www.zoochat.com/744/model-construction-66272/
http://www.zoochat.com/744/finished-product-66273/
 
STOP!!!! Do not make the front entrance yourself!!!!!!!

As you say you have employed professionals. To create birds,trees and other buildings. The whole look and feel of your zoo will have a certain standard of reality. I would suggest that you commision a standard two coloum victorian zoo gate with the word zoo detailed above the gate.

Obviously you know you really should just bite the bullet and get the berlin gates;)
 
As you love birds take a look at the entrance and zoo in Tenerife called Loro Parque.Just a suggestion:)
Good luck
 
A big thank you to all of you for your responces, i believe i have understood the point in every reply, and i have decided to go with something in the middle, i will wait a little more time to have a proper zoo entrance built, but it would not be Berlin, it will have to be something way more cheaper than this.

In the meantime let me show you the work of the bird artist, i'm posting a couple of pics of a king vulture that was made for my zoo, next to some lions from the German company schleich that produces their animals close with the Berlin zoo.

the king vulture is by an Artist, custom made

the lions are from a european company
 
pics of the king vulture, let me know if is realistic enough for you.
 

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I'm planing on putting a list together for this artist of bird species i don't currently have, and it will probably be a very long list, i will most likely need to take it down to 60 species. If i go with some small species i could possibly make it to 80 species.

I will prepare a list for you guys, and maybe you could leave some imput on the selection of species, all of this species will be for a free flight aviary, a sub-tropical aviary, and i will like to include rainforest species from around the World.

so far the species i already have for this aviary, made by the artist are:

scarlet tanager
long tailed broadbill
green broadbill
capuchinbird
turquoise cotinga
three wattled bellbird
toco toucan
great hornbill
narina's trogon
monk parakeet
violet tucaro
great blue turaco
hyacinth macaw
thick billed parrot
galah
victoria crowned pigeon
sunbittern
roseate spoonbill
boat billed heron
helmeted guineafowl
great argus
red junglefowl

This are the birds already in my collection that i have selected for this Zoo entrance free flight aviary, they come from many continents, and after doing some study in zoo's aviary's i believe they will fit well with eachother.

The great hornbill and hyacinth macaw, will be at the entrance of the aviary in two separate enclosures, they will have no access to the free flight aviary.

The theme of this Aviary will be the variety of birds in tropical and sub-tropical forests everywhere, and an additional 60 to 80 species in addition to the already mentioned will go a long way in showcasing this diversity.

I will soon put a list of birds i don't already have from this regions and you could give me some advice on the ones that will be more impacting.

There is hundreds of other bird species in my collection, and there will be at least 8 more bird areas or aviaries in the zoo diorama.
 
Here are pics of two more birds of prey, this two species i got from a museun line made by a famous japanese artist.

Harpy eagle
Egiptian vulture
 

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I have taken a couple of pics of the construction site of the primate house, the building itself is still on the development phase, since a lot of the items that came with the structure were damage during shipment.

I have only started working on the building and its outside enclosures, it is a work in progress.

The building will house a great collection of small primates, and the outside enclosures will be the home of several lesser and great ape species.

The list of species in my collection that will find a home here are:

Golden lion tamarin
White face saki
Bald uakari
Black howler monkey
White fronted capuchin
common sqirrel monkey
Black spider monkey
Hanuman langur
Doug langur
Proboscis monkey
Chinese snub-nosed monkey
Pied colobus monkey
King colobus monkey
Lion tailed macaque
Rhesus macaque
Pig tailed macaque
Barbary ape
Gelada
Hamadryas baboon* (i'm still undecided if this will be the location for this species)
Chacma baboom
Mandrill
Diana monkey
allen's swamp monkey


Siamang
Lar gibbon
Chimpanzee
Orangutan
Western lowland gorilla
Mountain gorilla

There is several more species that i will be very interested in having custom made in the future, more since primates are a little more expensive than birds to make, starting at about 150 usd, it will have to wait until 2010.

I did not include primates that will be housed in other sections of the zoo, i got this idea from some sugestions in this forum, so the lemurs will have a separate exihbit that will be located in a different area of the zoo.

Several species of marmoset in the collection will find a home, in a replica of a flooded rainforest exihbit, i will include in this area:

White headed marmoset
Pygmy marmoset
Wied's marmoset
Rio acari marmoset
Black tuffed marmoset


Black colubus monkey will be in a mixed exihbit with pygmy hippopotamus

Cotton top tamarin will be housed with maned three toed sloth in a small nocturnal exihbit next to the flooded forest enclosure.

The last exihbit in the zoo diorama that will include primates will be a japanese macaque mixed species exihbit.

This pics are really very incomplete, so this is just a direction of where the building is going, there is still a lot of work left, i will probably finish it in about 3 to 5 weeks, because i'm working in so many other things and the same time.

Please let me know your opinions, on the work so far, and on the species list, do you think is better to have more species in other exihbits around the park, or to keep it like it is in the building, since it is very large, and can hold most of them without a problem.
 

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