Yi Qi
Well-Known Member
So where would you think they should go? I'm sure you have Hohenwald for Happy and Patty in mind. Personally, I'd send Mikki and her calf to Tampa and Punch to Audubon.
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IDA's Top 10 Worst Zoos for Elephants 2018
- Thread starter SharkFinatic
- Start date
For Punch, I would recommend the Audubon Zoo as she shares the same age with Jean; Punch is 49 while Jean is 47. In addition, it'll enable the Audubon Zoo to provide Punch with advanced care for older elephants. Further, it'll enhance the socialization of Punch, Jean, Jothi, and Surapa.
For Mikki, I would recommend the Topeka Zoo, once the institution has constructed the new elephant habitat. In addition, it'll enable Mikki to have more space and grow her matrichal herd. Further, I would recommend another female African elephant, such as Asali or Christi and her daughter Zuri, join Mikki to provide companionship and develop the matriarchal herd.
For Happy and Patty, I would recommend either The Elephant Sanctuary or Elephant Refuge North America, once the facility is complete. Both institutions provide exemplary care, diverse environments, and enhanced socialization for their elephants.
Where would the best places be for Happy and Patty? They don't get along with any other elephants?
The best institutions to retire Happy and Patty would be The Elephant Sanctuary or Elephant Refuge North America, once the facility is complete. Both sanctuaries provide exemplary care, diverse environments, and enhanced socialization for their elephants.
I would beg to differ. The reason Happy and Patty are labelled as "anti-social" elephants is because the Bronx Zoo maintains a herd of incompatible elephants. In addition, Patty's aggressive nature towards Happy stems from her dominating personality. Further, the exhibit does not provide the adequate space for elephants to get away from one another if conflicts arise. Equate Happy and Patty as two people who hate each other but must share a room together. However, the vast expanse of the sanctuary habitat enables elephants to choice whether or not they want to socialize with particular individuals. Ultimately, Happy and Patty deserve a life of retirement and will significantly benefit from life at a sanctuary.
Would PAWS not be suitable as well? Maybe one go to Tennessee and one to California?
And what happens when they have the same exact socialization problems after the two elderly animals have been hauled across the country to completely unfamiliar places filled with unfamiliar keeps? And Bronx is one of the largest zoos in the country, if you don't think they could possibly provide proper space for their animals who can?
The zoo has multiple yards so I don't know how they can't get away from one another if conflicts arise.
~Thylo
The Performing Animal Welfare Society is another ideal institution to send Happy and Patty to however, it would take more then 42 hours by truck to transfer the two of them there. That would be far too strenuous on Happy and Patty, who haven't been moved in over three decades. Despite not being transferred in such a long time, Happy and Patty should be able to safely travel from the Bronx Zoo to The Elephant Sanctuary, which is only more then 15 hours by truck.
I would still recommend that both Happy and Patty be transferred to the same institution. Once both elephants are acclimated to life at the sanctuary, Patty will have no need to dominant Happy. However, if Patty continues to demonstrate dominance over Happy than Patty could simply occupy a different habitat than that of Happy. Ultimately, greater space, enhanced social dynamics, and environmental stimuli can significantly improve an elephant's overall health and behaviour.
You make a very valid point. However, take Maggie at the Performing Animal Welfare Society. The Alaska Zoo was reluctant to let Maggie go because they were worried that she wouldn't be able to socialize with other elephants, the new environment would cause her distress, and the relocation would be far too stressful. But look at her now; she's fully integrated with and accepted by the other female African elephants, she's significantly benefited from the warm and terraneous environment, and she successfully made the relocation from Alaska to California.
How will Happy and Patty's relocation and transition be any different than Maggie's.
The Bronx Zoo, without a doubt, provides all their animals with the proper space they need. However, for the elephants, that's a different story. If zoos are to house elephants, they must provide them the adequate space to roam and socialize without having to fight for dominance over space or hierarchy. Ultimately, in my eyes, the Bronx Zoo has demonstrated their desire to phase out their elephant program and should do so in the very near future.
What I meant by that statement is that if Patty and Happy were to occupy the same space or yard, Happy has no way of escaping if Patty asserted her dominance. Yes, the Bronx Zoo has multiple yards for their elephants but they can't share the same yard at the same time.
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But they don't have to fight over space?? I really don't understand your point here. You're saying the elephants need to be given "adequate space" to escape one another if fights break out, but that space needs to be within the same enclosure and that multiple yards don't count. How do you give an elephant space to escape another elephant but not have them separated in different yards?
But then here, when it comes to the sanctuary, you say that it will be completely fine to separate them into different yards should they not magically start getting along. But why would the change in environment suddenly change Patty's behavior towards Happy? And why is occupying separate yards at the Bronx bad but at the sanctuary good?
Wasn't Maggie only 24 when she moved from Alaska Zoo? Patty and Happy are twice that age, and Patty also has active TB. When elephants are such individualized animals, what makes you think that Happy and Patty would see the same results as Maggie when their circumstances are completely different?
~Thylo
Fair enough. The point I'm making is two or more elephants should be able to occupy the same space without having conflicts arise. In addition, the other point I'm making is the amount of space could be the reason why elephants assert dominance over one another when occupying the same yard. However, I've come to realize that both of my accusations are wrong. An elephant's personality and demeanor dictates whether they're compatible with other elephants. Ultimately, elephants are social creatures that need the companionship of other elephants but, in captivity, some elephants are too ill tempered to be paired with others of the same species.
A sanctuary would provide Happy and Patty with much more than the Bronx Zoo ever could. Even if Happy and Patty were to continue having the same socialization problems at a sanctuary, at least there are expansive habitats for each elephant to occupy, other elephants to socialize with if they choose to, and greater environmental stumuli for them to explore.
Yes, Maggie was in her late twenties when she moved to California. However, Maggie had fallen twice before her relocation to PAWS, and had to be lifted to her feet by the fire department on both occasions. Maggie was in way worse shape than Happy and Patty are right now. Regarding Patty's active TB, the Elephant Sanctuary could easily quarantine her yet still enable her to explore the sanctuary's quarantine habitat. Ultimately, Happy and Patty will see the same life changing results just as every retired sanctuary elephant has.