Twycross Zoo Matadi the gorilla!
- Thread starter josh_08
- Start date
It will almost certainly be Boulas from Belfast, who will take Matadi's place with Bongo & Biddy.
Remotely happy? - possibly!
Matadi is only about seven years old. He had to be removed from his natal 'group'(of two females) when the new silverback male 'Oumbi' arrived last autumn. The S/B keeper recommended Matadi remain in the group but Oumbi attacked him and so he was removed to the older 'group' of two females Bongo & Biddy( who is his grandmother). Pictures and forum posts show he has been getting along fine with them, especially with Biddy. However, it was already planned for Twycross to receive the adult male Boulas from Belfast(an older brother of Oumbie) to join these two older females. He is surplus at Belfast and Matadi's changeover has probably delayed this.
So Matadi's transfer to Paignton will allow the move of Boulas, as well as giving Matadi companions of his own age group which he hasn't ever had. Boulas may(or not) be infertile, though it is not impossible he could breed, at least with Biddy, the younger of the two 'oldies.' But his move will, perhaps more importantly, allow Belfast to try to breed from their younger wildcaught silverback 'Gugas' who is 'waiting in the wings' and has been suppressed by the older Boulas' presence.
'Matadi' is probably one of the three most genetically valuable young Gorillas growing up in the UK at present (the other two are Namoki & Komale at Bristol zoo). So hopefully he will be given a group of his own either at Twycross or elsewhere, when he is grownup.
Matadi is only about seven years old. He had to be removed from his natal 'group'(of two females) when the new silverback male 'Oumbi' arrived last autumn. The S/B keeper recommended Matadi remain in the group but Oumbi attacked him and so he was removed to the older 'group' of two females Bongo & Biddy( who is his grandmother). Pictures and forum posts show he has been getting along fine with them, especially with Biddy. However, it was already planned for Twycross to receive the adult male Boulas from Belfast(an older brother of Oumbie) to join these two older females. He is surplus at Belfast and Matadi's changeover has probably delayed this.
So Matadi's transfer to Paignton will allow the move of Boulas, as well as giving Matadi companions of his own age group which he hasn't ever had. Boulas may(or not) be infertile, though it is not impossible he could breed, at least with Biddy, the younger of the two 'oldies.' But his move will, perhaps more importantly, allow Belfast to try to breed from their younger wildcaught silverback 'Gugas' who is 'waiting in the wings' and has been suppressed by the older Boulas' presence.
'Matadi' is probably one of the three most genetically valuable young Gorillas growing up in the UK at present (the other two are Namoki & Komale at Bristol zoo). So hopefully he will be given a group of his own either at Twycross or elsewhere, when he is grownup.
josh_08
Well-Known Member
I would have much preferred to see him stay at Twycross and move into Joe`s den with a new female or two and start a nice breeding group. This is the same thing that happened to his uncle, Mambi back in 1999, moved to the bachelor group at Paignton.
Also, there are no gorilla pregnancies at this current time
thanks
josh.
Also, there are no gorilla pregnancies at this current time
thanks
josh.
taun
Well-Known Member
I would have much preferred to see him stay at Twycross and move into Joe`s den with a new female or two and start a nice breeding group. This is the same thing that happened to his uncle, Mambi back in 1999, moved to the bachelor group at Paignton.
Also, there are no gorilla pregnancies at this current time
thanks
josh.
Shame about the pregancies!
Am so much in favour of this move, it will free up Belfast to potential breed in there group.
Plus Twycross do not have room for three groups, I prefer the "oldies" group to have both enclosures. And they can at least seperate into decent sized areas instead of some gorillas being confined to the indoor dens!.
Now you raise an interesting point here. I too would rather that Matadi had stayed at Twycross and be given a couple of same-aged companions.
What I would have liked to see is all the four adult females combined as a single group with Oumbi as leader so they had just the one adult group. Twycross do NOT need Boulas and he is only coming because Howletts(who own him) vetoed his move to Warsaw( to a male group) because they didn't like the enclosure. Twycross then offered to take him. If Twycross had kept 'Matadi' they could perhaps have 'borrowed' a couple of young same-aged Gorillas from Howletts (doesn't matter what sex they were in the first instance).
Unfortunately I think they will need 'Joe's den' to keep Boulas in at first so Matadi really has to leave, though after the initial phase there would have been room 2 or 3 younger gorillas in Joe's old area. I am sure he will integrate well with Paignton's young males- they are all the same age- and at least he will have companions of the same age. But I rather agree with you that its not the best option for him.
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Boulas definately needs to leave Belfast but I think it would have been better if he had gone to Warsaw as was originally planned.
Actually they do as the old house has two indoor/outdoor areas so nobody would be shut indoors. The current old females' area can easily hold 1.2 - all there will be with Boulas, while Joe's side with the smaller outdoors could easily accomodate 2/3 younger animals. I guess Boulas and the two females will have the whole house to themselves.
taun
Well-Known Member
What I meant it’s not really adequate to hold two groups. A group and a lone male I think would be fine. I find the area in Joe’s old enclosure is not big enough to hold a group but then that’s my own opinion which is obviously different to others here.
When we are talking 'groups' at Twyross we are only really talking 2 or 3 animals in each area. I believe Joe's indoor area is exactly the same size as the one next door. The outdoor area is smaller(by about half)
1.2. adults on one side, and 2/3 juveniles on the other (with the smaller outdoors) would have been perfectly feasible in my opinion. But its all hypothetical as we know Matadi is leaving so that's that.
taun
Well-Known Member
1.2. adults on one side, and 2/3 juveniles on the other (with the smaller outdoors) would have been perfectly feasible in my opinion. But its all hypothetical as we know Matadi is leaving so that's that.
Yes however young animals have this habit of growning and becoming fully grown which is where I don't think the enclosure would be suited. Unless they moved off before becoming mature.
But as you say its not going to happen which am glad about.
But as you say its not going to happen which am glad about.
There are two main reasons I have concerns about Matadi leaving Twycross and going to Paignton;
1. Some of Paignton's young males have suffered mystery illnesses(Flu?) recently and one of them 'Kiri' has even died. Because Matadi is genetically valuable its even more important he doesn't go into a 'risk' situation.
2. After his bad experience with Oumbie, moving him to a strange environment where he'll again be the newest and lowest ranking member could knock his confidence quite badly, though I think he will adapt and settle in okay in the longterm.
The risk of him contracting an illness there is my greater worry .
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There are pros and cons in any move. I understand Pertinax's concern about disease, and I share it to some extent, but Twycross have had health problems with their older gorillas in recent years too.
I think Matadi is older than the two youngest males at Paignton, and he seems a well-socialised and out-going character, so I would be surprised if he lets them dominate him for long. I am sure that he will have learned from his experience with Oumbie that it doesn't pay to annoy bigger males.
I don't think the idea of keeping him at Twycross in Joe's old quarters is feasible: Boulas might not react well and there really is not enough space for a group of growing gorillas for more than a year or so.
Alan
I think Matadi is older than the two youngest males at Paignton, and he seems a well-socialised and out-going character, so I would be surprised if he lets them dominate him for long. I am sure that he will have learned from his experience with Oumbie that it doesn't pay to annoy bigger males.
I don't think the idea of keeping him at Twycross in Joe's old quarters is feasible: Boulas might not react well and there really is not enough space for a group of growing gorillas for more than a year or so.
Alan
I agree that Matadi will probably adjust quite easily to the new situation- that is my lesser worry.
Under other circumstances I would be pleased to see him leave Twycross and longterm its true they haven't room for two adult groups in that house. Its only the 'risk' situation presented at Paignton that bothers me- it is quite rare for a male of Kiri's age to die in a Zoo nowadays.
OK, a careful thumbs up then. If Boulas is coming, I would very much prefer him to be on his own (if as has been claimed the damn animal is infertile) and let the 2 older females be integrated with the breeding group of Oumbie instead.
This making a lone silverback - perhaps a start to a second all male facility and a natural breeding group at Twycross.
This making a lone silverback - perhaps a start to a second all male facility and a natural breeding group at Twycross.
We don't know for sure that Boulas is infertile but there's a question mark over him as in nearly ten years at Belfast he hasn't got a female pregnant. But it may be the females' fault somehow.
It would have been sensible if Twycross had united all four females giving them one adult Group(with Oumbie) only, but Boulas would then be a 'single' exhibit and I don't think anybody wants to see that, including their visitors... I doubt whether Twycross expect to breed from Boulas and the two old females anyway, more likely they represent a 'retirement group'. As Oumbie and Ozala are closely related to Boulas and Biddy(brothers and mother/daughter respectively) then genetically it doesn't really matter too much anyway.(The oldest female, w/c Bongo is sadly a nonstarter for breeding now) The whole situation is not ideal somehow but it is a big improvement on say, two years ago.
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OK, Pertinax ... I would submit to that too.