Nubian Wild Ass

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ZooMan Texas

Active Member
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Capital of Texas Zoo recently acquired 1.2.1 of what is referred to as the ‘Munich-Catskill’ strain of Nubian Wild Ass. The first picture was taken a few months before the Catskills closed in 2006. Second picture was taken three days ago at the Capital of Texas Zoo. The Catskills herd was moved to a Texas Ranch, and some of those offspring have been dispersed. I know where 2 females more are, but other than that, I do not know if any others exist or not, although we are making heroic efforts to search. There has been speculation as to whether this line is actually Nubian Wild Ass, or some sort of hybrid. We have enlisted the aid of some Phd’s capable of doing the DNA testing, and should have answers in the next few months. There are some old post from 2011 in zoo chat from some members Stating they knew where there was a herd of about 50 of these in Texas, if so, I can’t find them, I would love for that person to comment here or private message me
 
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I remember seeing the so-called Nubian wild ass on my only visit to Catskill back in 1984; I have never seen them anywhere else.

I know Catskill's founder stock were acquired from Munich Zoo via the Heck connection and there was some dispute as to how pure they were.

They looked distinctive and could easily be distinguished from Somali wild ass as they lacked stripes on the legs and had a pronounced cross on the shoulder.

I would be very interested to learn more; please keep us updated on your findings.
 
That looks more like Onager/Kulan to me. Nubian wild asses should have a black dorsal stripe along the back, which is completely missing in these animals....
 
lintworm said:
That looks more like Onager/Kulan to me. Nubian wild asses should have a black dorsal stripe along the back, which is completely missing in these animals....
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Look a little closer, the dorsal cross stripe is present. It is much smaller than in a domestic specimen. It is most easy to see in the specimen on the left of the photo taken in the Catskills. If you look carefully you can read their sign as well establishing where this was taken. That is my male in the front of the second pic and you can clearly see his dorsal stripe all three of them in the photo of my stock have it.
Also, the Munich Catskills strain has very faint but very definite leg stripes in the foals, including mine, something only wild ass of African origin have. This is a well-known trait of the Munich Catskills strain, but I have never found it noted in the literature, although it is noted on the Catskills information sign you can see in the first picture. I do not believe there are any skins in any museums anywhere of African wild ass foals, Which would explain why it has not been noted in the literature

There’s no question that these are Catskills strain Nubian wild ass. The only question is whether the Three founding animals brought into the Italian zoo in the 1920s Were in fact pure specimens

There are no Kiang in Texas that I am aware of although a few did leave the San Diego zoo for Don shadows place in Tennessee. Kiang are a foot and a half taller. We have Persian onager arriving as well from CCES stock totally different animal looks nothing like the animals in the pictures.

It can be confusing for people who have not seen many of them in the flesh the differences are obvious in person, the Photos less so
 
I can’t seem to make it take a picture of one of my Falls this morning, every time I do you upload a file from Phone pictures it says not an allowable extension whatever that means
 
ZooMan Texas said:
That is my male in the front of the second pic and you can clearly see his dorsal stripe all three of them in the photo of my stock have it.
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As I recall Catskill's "Nubian" wild ass, from thirty-four years ago, they had a much more obvious shoulder cross than is apparent in your photo.

To repeat, I would be very interested to learn more about these animals so please keep us informed.
 
Tim, again, The first photo I posted is of the actual Catskills animals taken in the Catskills zoo months before it closed in 2006 under the species sign on the fence at Catskills, so the provenance is undeniable

We have traced these animals from Catskills through two ranches here in Texas through a drive-through park to me.

I understand your memory from 34 years ago of the shoulder cross is darker.

I would suggest that an actual photo taken in the Catskills of undeniable Provenance due to the sign in the photo as well is a little more dependable.

I have additional photos of all of this but for some reason it won’t let me upload them
 
ZooMan Texas said:
Tim, again, The first photo I posted is of the actual Catskills animals taken in the Catskills zoo months before it closed in 2006 under the species sign on the fence at Catskills, so the provenance is undeniable
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I am certainly not questioning the provenance of your picture and didn't intend to give the impression that I was doubtful about it.

ZooMan Texas said:
I understand your memory from 34 years ago of the shoulder cross is darker. I would suggest that an actual photo taken in the Catskills of undeniable Provenance due to the sign in the photo as well is a little more dependable.
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Again, I am not questioning the authenticity of this photograph. I was merely pointing out that the animals I saw (twenty two years before your photo was taken) had a more clearly defined shoulder stripe. I just thought it was interesting that there appeared to be some individual variation in this feature.
 
ZooMan Texas said:
That is my male in the front of the second pic and you can clearly see his dorsal stripe all three of them in the photo of my stock have it.
Also, the Munich Catskills strain has very faint but very definite leg stripes in the foals, including mine, something only wild ass of African origin have. This is a well-known trait of the Munich Catskills strain, but I have never found it noted in the literature, although it is noted on the Catskills information sign you can see in the first picture. I do not believe there are any skins in any museums anywhere of African wild ass foals, Which would explain why it has not been noted in the literature
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I am not doubting that these are the Catskills animals, I am just a bit doubtful whether these are Nubian wild asses.

Regarding the stripe on the shoulder, that is not a dorsal stripe, this shoulder stripe can be present in Nubian wild asses indeed. What I do not see is a black dorsal stripe running on the middle of the back from manes to tail, a characteristic Nubian wild asses have. The leg stripes are a feature that is only sometimes present in Nubian wild asses and if only a few are present, unlike the Somali subspecies where they are prominent (source: Kingdon's Mammals of Africa). I am very curious what will come out of the DNA analysis, but I very much doubt you have real Nubian wild asses, more likely a mixture given the characteristics...
 
ZooMan Texas, this is certainly an interesting project you are working on.

What I will say in the defense of Nubian wild ass: taxonomic and genetic inertia more or less made the "questionmark" signalling over the validity (and claims) relating to any (not just captive) Nubian wild ass possible at all!

Hence, the talk of any photographic material is all well and "fine" (to use a figure of speech instead of the as per usual), but does not make definite proof any the closer as the speculation over their validity, ancestry and historical development in zoos (or even a studbook ..., if that ever existed) any the closer to a clearcut conclusion nor any closure.

Aside, very few natural history museums at the time (nor I am afraid many zoos) really took a deep and profound scientific interest in the any genetic material, let alone deceased individuals of these species - which seemed already rare and sometimes highly threatened at the time. Really this lack of professionalism has not done the biological sciences any good and certainly has made taxonomic and genetic relevant research that much more difficult.

On top: And this is a my personal Je m'accuse: In this very case the conventional and accredited zoo community in the USA and the AZA region had almost lost complete interest in wild ass conservation and captive-breeding in the early 2000's leading to large scale sale to the "knacker" of quite large groups of endangered equids (save for zebras) to the highest commercial bidder (Mind: This is no disrespect to the domestic horse and livestock industry, just a short summary of the recent and almost demise of these in captivity in North America).

Thanks to in large part it seems to a few dedicated US ranchers some Persian onager, Turkmenian/Central-Asian kulan and some of the "Nubian" wild ass Catskill Game Farm breeding line remain.


Suffice, I would be quite interested to help you out here (not with photographic material from at the time ... as unfortunately I have never had a chance to visit CGF) in any way that I can! It just happens to be one of my personal interest and expertise range in terms of animal ecology, taxonomy, genetics and conservation (and breeding!). Will PM.

I assume the Italian zoo you meant was Giardino Zoologico di Roma?
 
lintworm, It would not surprise me either if they were a mix. However based on hundred year old photos of mounted specimens, admittedly not that good of evidence, I think it is possible that they have a very high percentage of Nubian blood if they are a mix. Here’s the thing; as it looks like they are extinct in the wild, a very high mix could still be important

Kifaru Bwana, Giardino Zoologico do Roma was the zoo I meant. I have copies of old photos of the original three founders that were brought to the zoo. Apparently they also had another adult male which was supposedly a Nubian wild ass but looked very different from the first three. The zoo management did not cross him into the original strain, One of a couple of facts that Spartaco Gippoliti used in his 2014 paper to propose that the Catskills-Munich Were in fact a cross between Somali wild ass and domestic donkeys. He also felt the skulls lookeddifferent, but gave no measurements in the paper, and a couple of more points he made about where they were supposedly collected.
This is far from conclusive evidence to support his conclusion in my mind. Especially, since this is the age of DNA analysis. I am going to attempt to email Munich zoo For any additional information they may have, as here on Zoochat a member named safari park
Stated that he thought they had already done the DNA work on this bloodline of animals. That’s all I have to go on.

However as I said we have located some PhD’s in this field have a greed to do DNA work for us it will take a while of course but there is some very good DNA work done already on ancient and old museum specimens of Nubian wild ass for comparison

Of course, with only three founders contributing to the population, these things are walking clones. However, the US population of Anoa had four founders, Barasinghs 5 founders, And there are more examples
 
ZM Texas, I can email you the genetics of wild Somali / Nubian wild ass later on. F.i. there were 5 haplotypes for Somali wild ass (Danakil/Somali and Eritrea lots) as far as I can remember. Will mail later on.
 
kulan bioparco | ZooChat
Just to keep this discussion interesting when i visited the bioparco Roma in 2011 they held kulan and the 2006 guidebook Al Bioparco -dal piccolo al grande -la tua guida identified these animals as such. Compare this photo with the animals at the start of this thread.
 
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ZooMan Texas said:
...One of a couple of facts that Spartaco Gippoliti used in his 2014 paper to propose that the Catskills-Munich Were in fact a cross between Somali wild ass and domestic donkeys....
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Spartaco Gippoliti’s interesting paper was published in Der Zoologische Garten (August 2014) with the title:

The forgotten donkey's history. Remarks on African wild asses of the Giardino Zoologico in Rome and their relevance for Equus africanus (von Heuglin & Fitzinger, 1866) taxonomy and conservation

If you google, it a full text download is available in pdf format but I couldn't copy the link
 
This is the article by Spartaco Gippoliti ZooMan Texas alluded to.

I am trying to follow up on some of the Italian language publications on the subject and the asses from Dancalia as they were known locally in the Giardino Zoologico.
 
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