OLD BUILDINGS FROM THE 60'S

[adrian1963]

Was reading Animal magazine Jan 1963 information gained shows a picture of the Ape House at Dudley Zoo and it looks like the walls that divide each area have been altered as when opened the 2 middle walls extended to the water moat at the front of the Ape House
Also inside the House at the rear was a corridor to which people could walk through and watch the soecies through Armoured plated glass.
At one end of the corridor was a fully fitted kitchen where they prepared all the food for the animals and at the other end was a fully functional welfare room the whole building had underfloor heating so that each of the indoor enclosures could be kept at the correct temp. for the species in the house.
ALL this for the massive price of £30,000 the building was opened in 1962 thus making it a non tecton building including the moted area at the front.

Now my question as I would like to know is what coud a zoo build today for £30,000 and which other zoos still have enclosures/houses or avairies from the 1960's still in use and how could we improve them (if they need to be improved to come upto today's standards)

Dudley Zoo A pe House I would simpley use all the ground in front of it right upto the pathway by the gibbon enclosure, fill in the moat put in more climbing frames with ropes, nets and 2 small hiding holes this way the Orangs would have somewhere to go to have a bit of privacy as the only thing that really needs doing is putting a fence around the area and filling in the moat as well as putting up climbing frames ect.
This would surely be cheaper and better then having to build anew enclosure somewhere else in the zoo grounds.

 

[Pertinax]

Was reading Animal magazine Jan 1963 information gained shows a picture of the Ape House at Dudley Zoo and it looks like the walls that divide each area have been altered as when opened the 2 middle walls extended to the water moat at the front of the Ape House
Also inside the House at the rear was a corridor to which people could walk through and watch the soecies through Armoured plated glass.

The dividing walls in the outdoor enclosures went right up to the moat as they were the barriers between the three outdoor enclosures(now two) for the three ape species kept.

The interior of the House was very dark. The public area was very wide, much wider than the cage areas themselves. You can still see what was the old cages, they are the raised level at the back of the renovated indoor areas.

 

[johnstoni.]

I would simpley use all the ground in front of it right upto the pathway by the gibbon enclosure, fill in the moat put in more climbing frames with ropes, nets and 2 small hiding holes this way the Orangs would have somewhere to go to have a bit of privacy as the only thing that really needs doing is putting a fence around the area and filling in the moat as well as putting up climbing frames ect.
This would surely be cheaper and better then having to build anew enclosure somewhere else in the zoo grounds.

I suspect this is actually the plan? Otherwise they would not have rebuilt the indoor housing last year?

Does anyone know of any plans online for stage 2?

 

[johnstoni.]

I would simpley use all the ground in front of it right upto the pathway by the gibbon enclosure, fill in the moat put in more climbing frames with ropes, nets and 2 small hiding holes this way the Orangs would have somewhere to go to have a bit of privacy as the only thing that really needs doing is putting a fence around the area and filling in the moat as well as putting up climbing frames ect.
This would surely be cheaper and better then having to build anew enclosure somewhere else in the zoo grounds.

I suspect this is actually the plan? Otherwise they would not have rebuilt the indoor housing last year?

Does anyone know of any plans online for stage 2?

The house really was an 'imitation' Tecton, thankfully it's not listed, aside from a small part of the moat (to the best of my knowledge), so the dividing walls have been partly removed. I know a lot of people criticise the enclosure on here, I get it, but I would say the bigger issue is why Dudley have two groups? Given the enclosure is as it is, the easiest thing would have been to just not keep a second male, giving one group the run of the complex.

 

[Pertinax]

but I would say the bigger issue is why Dudley have two groups? Given the enclosure is as it is, the easiest thing would have been to just not keep a second male, giving one group the run of the complex.

Its really two pairs, rather than groups. They brought in the 2nd male(Jorong) as the original one 'Benjamin' is no good for breeding. They don't need Benjamin but probably nowhere else will take him either, so they are stuck with the existing arrangement. Even if it was only one male they might well still need the two enclosures for when there are babies, if he needs to be separated. But if they could move Benjamin, they could probably have the others(mother, daughter, baby grandaughter, male) as one group.

 

[johnstoni.]

I have to say, I'm quite invested in the idea of long-term residents having 'earned' some kind of acknowledgement of this fact, although I don't actually know how long the other male has been there, I am assuming they have tried with him for a number of years. I do find it objectionable when non-viable animals are just shipped off, taken to inferior accommodation, or worse.

While I welcome any orang births, possibly Dudley should have waited until the outdoor enclosures are extended before bringing in a new male. A non-breeding group, while the current outdoor enclosure remains the same, would have given all the adults access to the whole area. Instead, the arrival of a second male left one pair always with access to an outdoor facility no larger that when it opened in the 60s (though with better 'furniture'). I just think they should have waited, or sent the female they wanted to breed from elsewhere, before bringing in new animals once the outdoor area was complete. Holding 1.1 non-breeding, long-term residents with the run of the extended indoor areas and entire outside would have actually made this facility, though aesthetically still not the best, a very reasonable set-up. I really hope they are able to start work on the outdoor exhibits soon.

 

[Pertinax]

I have to say, I'm quite invested in the idea of long-term residents having 'earned' some kind of acknowledgement of this fact, although I don't actually know how long the other male has been there, I am assuming they have tried with him for a number of years. I do find it objectionable when non-viable animals are just shipped off, taken to inferior accommodation, or worse.

I just think they should have waited, or sent the female they wanted to breed from elsewhere, before bringing in new animals once the outdoor area was complete.

I saw Benjamin the day after he arrived at Dudley. It would have been early nineties I think. He was a bad acquisition from the start as though he came from Dublin, who also had a better, breeding male(Sibu) he had been born and handraised in Europe and I think it was known he had social problems prior to his arrival.

It is bad when unsuccessful animals are later sent to 2nd degree or worse accomodation. Several UK zoos have done this in the past, sending Apes to Eastern European zoos where they have then lived longterm in small concrete and barred cages- even places like Jersey have done it, and the animals are never mentioned again. Another example was the first Blackpool male Gorilla Kumba who ended up living alone in substandard accomodation in Hodenhagen(Safari Park) in Germany, where he died. But the problem is otherwise what to do with such animals if there is overcrowding or they are impeding further breeding?

I think they needed to breed from Jaz(the female with the baby) when they did because of her potential advancing age at a first birth- but with Orangutans it is fairly easy to send a female to a proven male- such as at Chester or Twycross.

 

[johnstoni.]

I suppose we should be grateful that Dudley have persevered with him, and not sent him to somewhere where he would be worse off. If the new outdoor enclosure(s?) is/are completed in the next 2-3 years, it puts the current separation in the present housing in another context slightly.

 

[Pertinax]

I think nowadays sometimes an animal stays where it is because they can't 'shift' it even if they want to- who wants an adult non-breeding male Orangutan? Several times over the years I've become impatient with zoos' apparent lack of effort in e.g. exchanging a non-breeder for a breeder, but without being fully aware of the problems surrounding rehousing these 'dud' animals.

Regarding planned improvements to Dudley's outside Orangutan enclosure- I have no idea what the timeframe on that is.

 

[mcatee123]

Have they ever attempted to carry out Trans-Rectal Electro-Ejaculation on orangutans ?