Population management in zoos

[Swanson02]

I just get annoyed when zoos claim to have breeding programs, where essentially all it is one pair of animals at a zoo that has many offspring which they then supply to other zoos before the breeding pair get too old and the population is just left to grow old without any new individuals to continue it. Then the process is then repeated by themselves or at another zoo. That's not a breeding program that's not sustainable. I guess our zoos would rather build another interactive meerkat experience or an adventure playground.

 

[Zoofan15]

I just get annoyed when zoos claim to have breeding programs, where essentially all it is one pair of animals at a zoo that has many offspring which they then supply to other zoos before the breeding pair get too old and the population is just left to grow old without any new individuals to continue it. Then the process is then repeated by themselves or at another zoo. That's not a breeding program that's not sustainable. I guess our zoos would rather build another interactive meerkat experience or an adventure playground.

I agree it’s frustrating when zoos do this. Another example is the coatis that Melbourne Zoo imported from Denmark and Germany. They bred several offspring shortly after and then the population has been left to die out with no further imports.

Re. Breeding related animals. If it’s a species that can’t easily be imported (or is unable to be imported) then I’m 100% in favour of inbreeding what we have. An inbred population is better than no population. Personally I’m annoyed Melbourne Zoo have just sat on the last Collared peccaries instead of breeding from this group; or sending them to a facility that will. This species will soon be lost forever from our region.

 

[Zorro]

I just get annoyed when zoos claim to have breeding programs, where essentially all it is one pair of animals at a zoo that has many offspring which they then supply to other zoos before the breeding pair get too old and the population is just left to grow old without any new individuals to continue it. Then the process is then repeated by themselves or at another zoo. That's not a breeding program that's not sustainable. I guess our zoos would rather build another interactive meerkat experience or an adventure playground.

The first thing that comes to mind is this is just plain bad management

 

[Swanson02]

Re. Breeding related animals. If it’s a species that can’t easily be imported (or is unable to be imported) then I’m 100% in favour of inbreeding what we have. An inbred population is better than no population. Personally I’m annoyed Melbourne Zoo have just sat on the last Collared peccaries instead of breeding from this group; or sending them to a facility that will. This species will soon be lost forever from our region.

I partially agree, if it's a species that is difficult to import for instance hippos, I 100% agree with inbreeding if it maintains a local population for the new imported individuals whenever they arrive to breed with. I disagree with inbreeding species we will never again be able to import (unless their population exceeds 50) I'd rather zoos focus on species we can import.

 

[Zoofan15]

I partially agree, if it's a species that is difficult to import for instance hippos, I 100% agree with inbreeding if it maintains a local population for the new imported individuals whenever they arrive to breed with. I disagree with inbreeding species we will never again be able to import (unless their population exceeds 50) I'd rather zoos focus on species we can import.

I just think it’s nice to have the option to maintain a species in the collection all the time viable offspring can be bred - the Andean condors being an example of this. Phasing them out is irreversible - with no option to change our minds.

The compromise/ideal solution here is for zoos to import enough individuals at the founder level to create a sustainable population that requires only minimal imports over time. Lowland nyala are an example of a breeding programme done well.

 

[Zorro]

I just think it’s nice to have the option to maintain a species in the collection all the time viable offspring can be bred - the Andean condors being an example of this. Phasing them out is irreversible - with no option to change our minds.

The compromise/ideal solution here is for zoos to import enough individuals at the founder level to create a sustainable population that requires only minimal imports over time. Lowland nyala are an example of a breeding programme done well.

This has been mentioned recently about this being a repeated mistake what has happened many times before with quite a few species eg, Bongos for one.

 

[Jambo]

I agree it’s frustrating when zoos do this. Another example is the coatis that Melbourne Zoo imported from Denmark and Germany. They bred several offspring shortly after and then the population has been left to die out with no further imports.

Interestingly, I found out recently Melbourne hope to continue with their Coatis. The two original females died both shortly after their arrival to Melbourne, which is why breeding hadn’t continued. The breeding male Floppy died last year I believe and some of his daughters remain. They plan to apparently import more following their deaths, so at least Melbourne isn’t giving up on them.

 

[Zoofan15]

Interestingly, I found out recently Melbourne hope to continue with their Coatis. The two original females died both shortly after their arrival to Melbourne, which is why breeding hadn’t continued. The breeding male Floppy died last year I believe and some of his daughters remain. They plan to apparently import more following their deaths, so at least Melbourne isn’t giving up on them.

I have heard that too - though it will require starting from scratch given the population is now post reproductive. Apparently 26 kits were born to the four founder females (Mohawk, Helga, Margarethe and Isabella) over the space of two weeks, with the 22 surviving kits reared communally. The male (Floppy) died in 2020.

Apparently Melbourne did import three more coati in 2018 (from Singapore), though these animals were post reproductive and subsequently never bred.

 

[Jambo]

I have heard that too - though it will require starting from scratch given the population is now post reproductive. Apparently 26 kits were born to the four founder females (Mohawk, Helga, Margarethe and Isabella) over the space of two weeks, with the 22 surviving kits reared communally. The male (Floppy) died in 2020.

Apparently Melbourne did import three more coati in 2018 (from Singapore), though these animals were post reproductive and subsequently never bred.

I think an import from Europe (similar to the one conducted in 2011) will be likely.

Melbourne had a fair amount of success within their first few years of breeding. Isabella's name rings a bell, so i'm sure she lived until at least the opening of the enclosure in the Carnivores trail (five or so years ago).

It's a shame no other zoos in the region got on board, as Melbourne exported most of the offspring overseas.

 

[Zoofan15]

It's a shame no other zoos in the region got on board, as Melbourne exported most of the offspring overseas.

I believe the four litters born 2011 were the only offspring bred from this import.

Most of the offspring were distributed between other zoos in the region: 0.6 were transferred to Gorge in 2012, 0.3 were transferred to Adelaide in 2013, 6.0 were transferred to Perth in 2015 and 3.0 were transferred to Altina in 2016.

Melbourne retained some as well and as of last year had 0.2 from the 2011 litters (Bahia and Japura) and 0.2 from the Singapore import (Luna and Kasey).

 

[Jambo]

I believe the four litters born 2011 were the only offspring bred from this import.

Most of the offspring were distributed between other zoos in the region: 0.6 were transferred to Gorge in 2012, 0.3 were transferred to Adelaide in 2013, 6.0 were transferred to Perth in 2015 and 3.0 were transferred to Altina in 2016.

Melbourne retained some as well and as of last year had 0.2 from the 2011 litters (Bahia and Japura) and 0.2 from the Singapore import (Luna and Kasey).

Yes, I knew about those that were sent to Gorge and Adelaide but not Perth and Altina! Do you have any idea what happened to them? I believe Adelaide's were sent back to Melbourne not long after they arrived.

 

[Zoofan15]

Yes, I knew about those that were sent to Gorge and Adelaide but not Perth and Altina! Do you have any idea what happened to them? I believe Adelaide's were sent back to Melbourne not long after they arrived.

As of last year:

Adelaide had 0.3
Altina had 3.0
Gorge had 0.5
Perth had 3.0

Therefore most were surviving several years on bar one female at Gorge and three males at Perth.

All still currently hold the species, though it’s possible a couple more have died during the last year. The average lifespan is 14-17 years, though many die earlier.

 

[Jambo]

As of last year:

Adelaide had 0.3
Altina had 3.0
Gorge had 0.5
Perth had 3.0

Therefore most were surviving several years on bar one female at Gorge and three males at Perth

Adelaide still has them! As far as I was aware they didn't have them years back; they were in the row that holds Lions. Possibly a regular like @Swanson02 is aware if they're still exhibited there?

 

[Zoofan15]

Adelaide still has them! As far as I was aware they didn't have them years back; they were in the row that holds Lions. Possibly a regular like @Swanson02 is aware if they're still exhibited there?

The map shows them as being exhibited next to the Black and white colobus, Fennec fox and Serval - just up from the African lion.

They received three females - one born 25/11/2011 and two born 04/12/2011.

 

[Swanson02]

Adelaide still has them! As far as I was aware they didn't have them years back; they were in the row that holds Lions. Possibly a regular like @Swanson02 is aware if they're still exhibited there?

All three are still there next to the lions

 

[Zorro]

I agree it’s frustrating when zoos do this. Another example is the coatis that Melbourne Zoo imported from Denmark and Germany. They bred several offspring shortly after and then the population has been left to die out with no further imports.

Re. Breeding related animals. If it’s a species that can’t easily be imported (or is unable to be imported) then I’m 100% in favour of inbreeding what we have. An inbred population is better than no population. Personally I’m annoyed Melbourne Zoo have just sat on the last Collared peccaries instead of breeding from this group; or sending them to a facility that will. This species will soon be lost forever from our region.

One could also apply this to Western Plains zoo onagers, founding stock from Rotterdam with further imports from the USA, bred well, well suited to the Dubbo climate and was stated by the zoo to be breeding this endangered species and now down to the last 3 I believe, They could of imported the odd animal to add a new bloodline but why bother? easier just to add them to the list of phase outs also they could of sent some to other regional zoos.
One can't expect the smaller zoos like Altina to keep picking up the slack like they did with dubbos Maned wolfs.

 

[Zoofan15]

One could also apply this to Western Plains zoo onagers, founding stock from Rotterdam with further imports from the USA, bred well, well suited to the Dubbo climate and was stated by the zoo to be breeding this endangered species and now down to the last 3 I believe, They could of imported the odd animal to add a new bloodline but why bother? easier just to add them to the list of phase outs also they could of sent some to other regional zoos.
One can't expect the smaller zoos like Altina to keep picking up the slack like they did with dubbos Maned wolfs.

Sometimes I feel like it’s a testing the waters exercise with some species. Zoos acquire a species and assess the engagement it has with the visitors - before making a decision to phase it out e.g. Clouded leopard at Taronga, Fishing cat at Melbourne Zoo.

Similarly, they’ve assessed species that have been at the zoo for some time and decide they’re no longer engaging and decide to phase them out e.g. Maned wolf and Temminck’s golden cat at Melbourne.

Among other problems, this leads to homogeneity between our region’s main zoos and decreases the likelihood people visiting the city from within the region will want to go there - because they can see the exact same species at their home zoo.

 

[Zorro]

Sometimes I feel like it’s a testing the waters exercise with some species. Zoos acquire a species and assess the engagement it has with the visitors - before making a decision to phase it out e.g. Clouded leopard at Taronga, Fishing cat at Melbourne Zoo.

Similarly, they’ve assessed species that have been at the zoo for some time and decide they’re no longer engaging and decide to phase them out e.g. Maned wolf and Temminck’s golden cat at Melbourne.

Among other problems, this leads to homogeneity between our region’s main zoos and decreases the likelihood people visiting the city from within the region will want to go there - because they can see the exact same species at their home zoo.

That’s part of a bigger picture but it costs less to feed plastic dinosaurs and kids play grounds and give any AR groups less to target

 

[Zoofan15]

That’s part of a bigger picture but it costs less to feed plastic dinosaurs and kids play grounds and give any AR groups less to target

Considering families with children under the age you have to start paying to go to the zoo make up their biggest demographic, zoos are eager to cater to these age groups with playgrounds, animatronic dinosaurs and basic exhibits housing familiar species - lions, giraffes, zebras etc.

It’s worth considering that this demographic will come to the zoo regardless (since the kids get in for free) and that by enhancing the zoo for those outside this demographic, they could attract both in greater numbers.

Little kids aren’t brought to Melbourne Zoo because they can’t get enough of Growing Wild; they’re brought there because it’s free admission and it’s something to do. Given Zoos Victoria extend free visits to children up to the age of 16, I’m also willing to bet that their zoos receive proportionally more visits from preteens than zoos that charge admission for this age group.