Melbourne Zoo Rigo the gorilla #2

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zookiah63

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I just had a thought.

Ya Kwanza was the result of artificial insemination. The process of obtaining active sperm from an adult male gorilla is quite unpleasant and (I believe) very intrusive.

Do you think any damage may have been done in the process? Or whether it caused a psychological and therfore a physical problem?

If any of you boys were PARTIALLY anaesthetised (and therby aware of some of what was going on and had no control over it) and were forced to produce a sperm sample by having an electric prod inserted in your backside........what effects do you think this might have on future attempts at mating? It's a form of rape really.

there....I've given away my gender......

I just know how sensitive and complex gorillas are and I was just wondering.....how far does their awareness extend?
 
zookiah63 said:
a Kwanza was the result of artificial insemination. The process of obtaining active sperm from an adult male gorilla is quite unpleasant and (I believe) very intrusive.

Do you think any damage may have been done in the process? Or whether it caused a psychological and therfore a physical problem?
Presumably you're talking about Rigo?

I doubt it very much. Sperm has been collected from male gorillas on a number of occassions in the past when they were anaesthetised for other reasons- I don't think they were aware or affected in any way. Jersey's previous breeding male Jambo (Motaba's dad) certainly wasn't...

We can't judge 'Rigo' until there's a failure on his part to respond to a female in oestrus. Males only normally show any sexual interest during those times...
Maybe you can find out if that's the case or not?
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From what I know Rigo wasn't aneasthetised, only sedated. I believe you can't get the sperm (from ejaculate) if the animal is aneasthetised.....they are partially awake but sedated enough to keep them quiet. This is done with big cats also.

The gorilla watches have been going since Rigo first entered the enclosure (on his own) and have continued since the intros to the females. I'll see what I can find out.
 
Silverbacks can be conditioned to give up sperm, and it doesn't seem that it would be traumatic, except for the keeper that has to coax it out of him.
 
Jo said:
Silverbacks can be conditioned to give up sperm, and it doesn't seem that it would be traumatic, except for the keeper that has to coax it out of him.
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That's a different process you're talking about- getting a male to masturbate himself so he ejaculates. This technique can be used in particular with 'Humanised' males which often relate sexually to their keepers rather than to female gorillas. These humanised males will sometimes masturbate in front of anyone they recognise. They can be trained to 'deliver' on command and its an easy, non-invasive way to obtain sperm.

Regarding the sedation of other males to obtain sperm samples, I still wouldn't think it affects them long term.
 
Yep, it depends on the individual, but I am a keen supporter of conditioning for husbandry so push that bandwagon as often as possible.
 
Jo said:
Yep, it depends on the individual, but I am a keen supporter of conditioning for husbandry so push that bandwagon as often as possible.
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I've seen a number of 'humanised' silverbacks in the past from which it would be easy to get good sperm samples that way- but it was never done. Nowadays I think its more of a recognised technique in some situations..

HOWEVER- there are other problems associated with A.1 in gorillas and Melbourne's successfull achievment still remains the only one so far....
 
I hope it is sorted, I can't comment beyond that as I don't have much to do with Melbourne. I would love to see more research put into AI with gorillas and how to skew the sex ratio to favour females, (as long as it wasn't at the expense of long term breeding behaviours and fertility of course).
 
I've no idea why AI hasn't been more successful with gorillas. Its certainly not taken off. I imagine more research is being done on embryo sex ratios etc too but that's only a guess.
 
Pertinax said:
I've no idea why AI hasn't been more successful with gorillas.
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probably because there is not really a shortage of gorillas for zoos....

whilst we understand the need to utilse as many wild caught founders as possibly and preserve genetics, try tellig that to a zoo that can probably more cheaply acquire another male.

thats my guess...
 
Testing now
 
Wow. That's amazing. I was told told that Rigo has been conditioned to give sperm samples but I thought it was too wierd to believe and I wasn't prepared to post anything without more evidence......so I guess, from you guys say this is more common than I realised.

Also, I don't believe the girls at Melbourne have gone into oestrus since their implants have been removed....but I'm waiting for confirmation.

Apparently there was a gorilla in the US that was successfully artificially inseminated some time in the 90's. (I found a site about gorillas and it was claiming the first successfully artifially inseminated gorilla was born in the US in the nineties and I emailed them to let them know that Ya Kwanza was successfully inseminated a lot earlier than that......the poor Yanks....imagane what would happen if they discovered there really was a world beyond their borders....some of them still think Canada is overseas!)
 
patrick said:
whilst we understand the need to utilse as many wild caught founders as possibly and preserve genetics, try tellig that to a zoo that can probably more cheaply acquire another male.
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I think its been tried a number of times as its an easier alternative to shunting males around, even if the animals have to be knocked out to do it.

Last year(or earlier this) Jersey tried it with Ya Kwanza and Bambuti(Melbourne bred from Betsy) as he doesn't mate her naturally but again it was unsuccessful.
 
zookiah63 said:
Also, I don't believe the girls at Melbourne have gone into oestrus since their implants have been removed....but I'm waiting for confirmation.

Apparently there was a gorilla in the US that was successfully artificially inseminated some time in the 90's.
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This is the crucial factor and its impossible to judge 'Rigo' until that happens. I hope the females do start normal cycling before too long- after being on implants it can sometimes take a long time. The only good thing is they will already be well used to 'Rigo' by now. Does 'Jumatano' show any sign of oestrus yet?

Yes, I'm probably wrong in saying Ya Kwanza's the only AI success, as well as being the first. But they're pretty rare.
 
As soon as I find anything out I'll let you know. Not sure about Jumatano cycling or anything but she still follows Rigo around (all the while pretending she's not really there.)
 
zookiah63 said:
Not sure about Jumatano cycling or anything but she still follows Rigo around (all the while pretending she's not really there.)
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That's classic(and normal) behaviour- being 'hooked' on the silverback...:)

I's say that when she starts oestrus, if she hasn't already,there's a good chance she and Rigo will mate (if he's normal that is). Eight years old is quite possible for breeding in female gorillas.
 
Zookiah- here's your guide for detecting Oestrus in female gorillas...

If you're observant, you'll notice some behavioural changes- the oestrus female tends to hang around within a few yards of the male. Behaviour varies individually but they usually sit or 'pose' on all fours with their lips tucked in and a fixed gaze. Some females do things they don't do normally- like drumming on part of the body or other 'different' behaviour. 'Humanised' females(not relevant at Melb I don't think- even with G.Anne)) sometimes direct all this at people they like instead...
 
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