Twycross Zoo The Baby Orang

J

Jane Doe

Well-Known Member
Ok Who is going to be Man enough to apologise to me ? as Pertinax said when I put something about it would not have happened in the old days.

I was not lying and yet I was slated for putting what I did, also there was someone who said I had been put on their dislike list why ? for just telling the truth ?

Sorry if this annoys people but I will say it again Miss Redrobe did completely the wrong thing calling Miss Badham without mentioning names but everyone new who she was talking about . If they didn't do the adverts then she would not have a high paid job because Twycross would not be there, and while we are talking about Twycross Zoo it was their 50th Anniversary last year to the day and the date NOT this year like they are advertising.
 
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Jane Doe 2 said:
Ok Who is going to be Man enough to apologise to me ? as Pertinax said when I put something about it would not have happened in the old days.

I was not lying and yet I was slated for putting what I did, also there was someone who said I had been put on their dislike list why ? for just telling the truth ?

Sorry if this annoys people but I will say it again Miss Redrobe did completely the wrong thing calling Miss Badham without mentioning names but everyone new who she was talking about . If they didn't do the adverts then she would not have a high paid job because Twycross would not be there, and while we are talking about Twycross Zoo it was their 50th Anniversary last year to the day and the date NOT this year like they are advertising.
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Indeed yes, I certainly believe you are due an unreserved apology from certain members of this discussion group for slating you when all you did was state the truth concerning the baby orang and therefore speaking up for the animals at Twycross, it will be very interesting indeed to see if you do get an apology from the members concerned.
 
Animal Friendly said:
Indeed yes, I certainly believe you are due an unreserved apology from certain members of this discussion group for slating you when all you did was state the truth concerning the baby orang and therefore speaking up for the animals at Twycross, it will be very interesting indeed to see if you do get an apology from the members concerned.
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I wont hold my breath .
 
I'm interested to see whether you will be apologising for accusing me of talking out of my arse when you inadvertently misunderstood the context of what I was talking about ;)

Incidentally, are you having trouble accessing your original account? We don't allow multiple active accounts for a single user, so if you like we can merge the two accounts?
 
Sorry, but i must have missed something here. Have the facts regarding the baby orang been made public now? Is it now known it was avoidable?
 
I have no problems apologising for miss understanding what you put so I am sorry.

I asked to be removed before because I felt like I was being a bit bullied by a few people I was only telling things like they were, ok it was in the older days being accused of looking through rosé tinted glasses ok there were things that were wrong but it must be remember you can not change the elderly they are stuck in their ways, but most of the older keepers are ashamed to say they worked at Twycross Zoo because of how it is being run now and under the latter person. It is so heart breaking to see what is happening. Sorry to say if they haven't told everyone what happened with the baby orang then they must be hiding something.
 
Jane Doe 2 said:
I have no problems apologising for miss understanding what you put so I am sorry.

I asked to be removed before because I felt like I was being a bit bullied by a few people I was only telling things like they were, ok it was in the older days being accused of looking through rosé tinted glasses ok there were things that were wrong but it must be remember you can not change the elderly they are stuck in their ways, but most of the older keepers are ashamed to say they worked at Twycross Zoo because of how it is being run now and under the latter person. It is so heart breaking to see what is happening. Sorry to say if they haven't told everyone what happened with the baby orang then they must be hiding something.
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That's a really patronising view of older people (I'm sure many older people have developed computer and internet skills in recent years) -anybody can change, at any age (if they want to). John Knowles did a pretty good job of moving with the times as he/Marwell got older. Your glib excuse offered doesn't defend someone being undynamic in an area (running a zoo) where dynamism is an essential quality. If some silent film actors couldn't act well when the "talkies" came along they (and their supporters) couldn't really complain if they were criticised for continuing acting when it was obvious they fell short of the task.

Personally I think Molly & Natalie were great is establishing and running the zoo in it's early years and making it what it became in it's hey day (are there many/any other cases in the UK/anywhere of a woman/women building up a significant zoo from nothing?). However they were/became old-fashioned in their view of what constituted adequate enclosures* and were arguably over-prudent when it came it came to spending money. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the one benefit of being tight on the purse-strings, a big pile of cash, was squandered, misdirected and wasted by the
Boardman regime. Molly/Natalie let the place drop behind but Suzie seemed to hamstring the place and let it be lapped/overtaken by a number of other zoos.

Basically, no apologies from me on considering you a zealot for having such a simplified monochrome view of events and previously historically refusing to accept any faults during Molly's regime.

As regards the Orang death, nothing has been proven either way on this matter yet (silence could merely equate to poor PR rather than some kind of cover up). That said, it's entirely possible that some people know information not in the public domain yet and that makes them confident of making accusations/assertions but, then again, it's also common for rumours to fly in "information vacuums" and people tend to like grabbing the ones that support their world view.

I'm fully willing to accept there may be some spinning going on -if you read back you'll see I defended your statements on this, and said it should be given some consideration, when others were quick to shout you down (probably because you'd been a little over-zealous in the past and queered the pitch).

It might help towards conciliation if you showed a little less arrogance on asking for apologies until more facts are known and, even if you're right, dampening down your confrontational style in any/every case.

Right, that's Twycross hopefully calmed, now for the Ukraine.


*To be fair I don't know how much direct control/influence they had on enclosure choices at various times time in Twycross' history
 
Shorts said:
As regards the Orang death, nothing has been proven either way on this matter yet (silence could merely equate to poor PR rather than some kind of cover up).
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I can assure you its the latter, not the former.

If not, they shouldn't be shy of releasing a statement.
 
OK all the older people that I now don't like change and if you actually new Miss Badham and Miss Evans then you would understand. They were brought up in the war years when times were tough. The one thing you could say about the zoo was the animals were well cared for.
If you new Miss B and Miss E like I did you would understand, they didn't trust anyone because the had been taken for a ride on a few occasions ok that is no excuse.

Both Miss B & Miss E wanted to build a new chimp complex so they could bring them all together, they never had pest problem in their days that is why all the runs had short grass.

OK the place did need to be changed but not this way Boardman enjoyed spending the money they saved for when they had gone so there was money for when it was needed now that has gone and now there is Redrobe lets not go there.

Lets just carry on as we are and there is no need to use big words because I am thick.
 
Shorts said:
That's a really patronising view of older people (I'm sure many older people have developed computer and internet skills in recent years) -anybody can change, at any age (if they want to). John Knowles did a pretty good job of moving with the times as he/Marwell got older. Your glib excuse offered doesn't defend someone being undynamic in an area (running a zoo) where dynamism is an essential quality. If some silent film actors couldn't act well when the "talkies" came along they (and their supporters) couldn't really complain if they were criticised for continuing acting when it was obvious they fell short of the task.

Personally I think Molly & Natalie were great is establishing and running the zoo in it's early years and making it what it became in it's hey day (are there many/any other cases in the UK/anywhere of a woman/women building up a significant zoo from nothing?). However they were/became old-fashioned in their view of what constituted adequate enclosures* and were arguably over-prudent when it came it came to spending money. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the one benefit of being tight on the purse-strings, a big pile of cash, was squandered, misdirected and wasted by the
Boardman regime. Molly/Natalie let the place drop behind but Suzie seemed to hamstring the place and let it be lapped/overtaken by a number of other zoos.

Basically, no apologies from me on considering you a zealot for having such a simplified monochrome view of events and previously historically refusing to accept any faults during Molly's regime.

As regards the Orang death, nothing has been proven either way on this matter yet (silence could merely equate to poor PR rather than some kind of cover up). That said, it's entirely possible that some people know information not in the public domain yet and that makes them confident of making accusations/assertions but, then again, it's also common for rumours to fly in "information vacuums" and people tend to like grabbing the ones that support their world view.

I'm fully willing to accept there may be some spinning going on -if you read back you'll see I defended your statements on this, and said it should be given some consideration, when others were quick to shout you down (probably because you'd been a little over-zealous in the past and queered the pitch).

It might help towards conciliation if you showed a little less arrogance on asking for apologies until more facts are known and, even if you're right, dampening down your confrontational style in any/every case.

Right, that's Twycross hopefully calmed, now for the Ukraine.


*To be fair I don't know how much direct control/influence they had on enclosure choices at various times time in Twycross' history
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"Over prudent when it comes to spending money?", how can you be over prudent when it comes to spending money my boy?":)You see "In this life, one thing counts, in the bank large amounts", a good opening line for a song perhaps!. Perhaps Jane Doe has been a bit over zealous, yes, the reason I would give for this is she is very upset at what has happened/is happening at this zoo since Miss Badham and Miss Evans retired, people she was very fond of, and like herself great animal lovers. They became a little old fashioned?, I would say yes, to me that was to a certain extent all part of the enjoyment of visiting Twycross, eg, the old wooden café, getting your admission ticket that was issued from the old bus conductor's machine etc, the zoo was directed and staffed by some great characters, and really lovely people, you felt happy and content when walking around the place. Yes, some of the animal houses were old fashioned, and I am not going to attempt to justify keeping the chimps in that old chimp row, perhaps, looking back, it would have been better if Miss Badham and Miss Evans had appointed a "director in waiting", some years before they retired, someone of good character who could have worked along side the ladies, while respecting their traditions and values but at the same time injecting new ideas into the place. But of coarse that did not happen and we know what happened as a result. On a personal note, they block me from their facebook page, very well that is their decision, I would have thought though that someone who had a genuine interest in the future of the zoo and the animals there should be respected and not just treat like something that is scraped from the bottom of your shoe, There are enough people out there who are anti zoo, I see they have had quite a few comments recently on their facebook page from people who I would describe as antis, regarding the alleged beatings of Noor Jahan when pregnant with her new baby, not everybody it would seam just wants to post that they had a great day out at the zoo and had a nice dinner in the new fish and chip shop.
 
Pertinax said:
I can assure you its the latter, not the former.

If not, they shouldn't be shy of releasing a statement.
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I think, sadly (on the balance of probabilities) you're probably right.

It'll be interesting what happens next.
 
Jane Doe 2 said:
OK the place did need to be changed but not this way Boardman enjoyed spending the money they saved for when they had gone so there was money for when it was needed now that has gone and now there is Redrobe lets not go there.
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That's one thing we can both agree on.:)
 
Animal Friendly said:
"Over prudent when it comes to spending money?", how can you be over prudent when it comes to spending money my boy?":)You see "In this life, one thing counts, in the bank large amounts", a good opening line for a song perhaps!. Perhaps Jane Doe has been a bit over zealous, yes, the reason I would give for this is she is very upset at what has happened/is happening at this zoo since Miss Badham and Miss Evans retired, people she was very fond of, and like herself great animal lovers. They became a little old fashioned?, I would say yes, to me that was to a certain extent all part of the enjoyment of visiting Twycross, eg, the old wooden café, getting your admission ticket that was issued from the old bus conductor's machine etc, the zoo was directed and staffed by some great characters, and really lovely people, you felt happy and content when walking around the place. Yes, some of the animal houses were old fashioned, and I am not going to attempt to justify keeping the chimps in that old chimp row, perhaps, looking back, it would have been better if Miss Badham and Miss Evans had appointed a "director in waiting", some years before they retired, someone of good character who could have worked along side the ladies, while respecting their traditions and values but at the same time injecting new ideas into the place. But of coarse that did not happen and we know what happened as a result. On a personal note, they block me from their facebook page, very well that is their decision, I would have thought though that someone who had a genuine interest in the future of the zoo and the animals there should be respected and not just treat like something that is scraped from the bottom of your shoe, There are enough people out there who are anti zoo, I see they have had quite a few comments recently on their facebook page from people who I would describe as antis, regarding the alleged beatings of Noor Jahan when pregnant with her new baby, not everybody it would seam just wants to post that they had a great day out at the zoo and had a nice dinner in the new fish and chip shop.
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Great post, pretty much in agreement with all of it. Is that a Depeche Mode lyric or something earlier (Floyd)?

Of course you can be over-prudent spending money though. For instance if you don't carry out regular maintenance and repairs on, say, a roof then one day it may develop serious problems which are expensive to fix;).

I think it's wrong that you've been banned from facebook, it's aggressively defensive and doesn't fill me with confidence -no matter where one stood on the Marius issue at least Copenhagen Zoo answered it's critics and explained their position.

If you think facebook's bad don't look at TripAdvisor, recent visitor feedback is not glowing:(.

I'm still hoping for the best for Twycross but who knows how things will roll out? It's pulling back into (the lower reaches of) the top division of UK zoos is going to take quite a while I feel.
 
Jane Doe 2 said:
Ok Who is going to be Man enough to apologise to me ? as Pertinax said when I put something about it would not have happened in the old days.
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Not me!

I really can't understand the way in which you feel the need to gloat at the (inevitable) setbacks that the zoo has under its current management.

I really can't understand the way in which you seem stuck in this reactionary view, that everything was so much better in the past and is so much worse now (and it has nothing to do with age - there are plenty of older people who are able to recognise that things do change and it is not always for the worse).

I really can't see why Twycross - a long way from being the best zoo in the country, but equally a long way from being the worst - should have to put up with so much ill-will from those who should be supporting it.

Anyway - it's good to see an old poster or two back, even if their user names have been adapted.
 
Twycross Zoo The Baby....

'In this life, one thing counts, in the bank, large amounts' comes from the film Oliver (Twist), as sung by Fagin '....you got to pick a pocket or two, boys'
 
I think all those who post on here about Twycross or this particular incident have different agendas for doing so.

My own in this case is simply because I feel that having publicised this birth, they should at least give some explanation of the baby's death to those who are interested enough to ask. I don't think they should expect people to show interest in just the good news but not want to follow up the bad news, though Zoos have always done this of course.

Twycross actually have had up till now a very long and almost trouble-free record with breeding Orangutans, far better than e.g. with their Gorillas or some of the Guenon monkeys, which makes this untimely death stand out even more.
 
Pertinax said:
I think all those who post on here about Twycross or this particular incident have different agendas for doing so.

My own in this case is simply because I feel that having publicised this birth, they should at least give some explanation of the baby's death. I don't think they should expect people to show interest in just the good but not want to follow up the bad news, though Zoos have always done this of course. Twycross actually have had up till now a very long and almost trouble-free record with breeding Orangutans, far better than e.g. with their Gorillas or some of the Guenon monkeys, which makes this untimely death stand out even more.
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And what makes it even worse is they officially stated that they would be conducting a full post mortem examination and making the results of it public, they have not made the results public, myself and others enquired about this via their facebook page, which resulted in me being blocked. I suggest this zoo were simply hoping everybody would simply forget about it, as I suppose most would, and focus their attention on the birth of the baby elephant, like your good self, I have not forgotten about it, neither has Jane Doe.
 
Twycross have put results on their news page under the report regarding the death of baby orang.
 
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