Thylo in China?

[ThylacineAlive]

I am currently in the ideas (aka daydreaming) phase of planning a hypothetical trip to Asia for potentially next year. The main focus will be Java and Singapore, but I have found myself repeatedly drifting my gaze over to China as well. China is a huge country with many zoos, many biomes, and many animals, so I don’t expect to call what I’m thinking of as remotely comprehensive, but I’m wanting to try and hit as many of the major zoological collections as I can in a roughly week-long “sweep” prior to heading south.

My current rough itinerary looks something like this:

• Beijing: Beijing Zoo & Aquarium, evening flight to Xining
• Xining: Tibetan Plateau Zoo, local wildlife watching, evening flight to Shanghai
• Shanghai / Suzhou: Shanghai Zoo & Suzhou Forest Animal World, train to Tongling via Nanjing
• Tongling / Nanjing: Tongling River Dolphin National Reserve, back to Nanjing for wildlife watching and maybe Hongshan Forest Zoo, head to Xiangzhou via Hong Kong
• Xiangzhou: Chimelong Ocean Kingdom, train to Guangzhou
• Guangzhou: Chimelong Safari & Guangzhou Zoo, travel out of China

Please note that not every bullet point represents a single day, though the aim is to keep this as compact as possible. Regardless, I’m sure this looks like an insane amount of travel to do within such a short period of time—it is. I haven’t fully mapped out logistics, but it looks as though this route is possible as described. That said, I am here seeking feedback on this. Any comments, advice, or critiques are welcome.

Additionally, I am seeking some (a lot of) information:

• Beijing: Is the Zoo/Aquarium reasonably doable in one day? Google has three different locations listed for the Aquarium. Is the aquarium part of the Zoo or a separate entity (I know there is also the Blue Zoo which is different)?
• Beijing: Are the Chinese Crested Ibis strictly off-exhibit? Are the Stripe-Necked Leaf Turtles and/or Three-Keeled Land Turtles on-exhibit?
• Beijing: How does one differentiate the two hoolock species reliably? Also, are the two Argali taxa kept separate or together?
• Beijing: On ZTL, there is a “Beijing Wildlife Rescue & Rehabilitation Center” with only one species entered, Asian Golden Cat. I have been unable to find any information about where this center is located exactly or if they hold any other local rescued species. Does anyone have any further information on this place?
• Shanghai / Suzhou: How long should one budget for a visit to the Shanghai Zoo and Suzhou Forest Animal World respectively? Suzhou looks pretty tiny, Shanghai less so. I’d like to be efficient with my time, but I don’t exactly want to rush a visit to either. They’re also an hour apart by car, not sure on public transport yet.
• Shanghai: Is it true Shanghai Zoo opens at 6:30am? Are the Red Goral on-exhibit?
• Suzhou: If this happens, I am looking to time my visit for the first or second week of May. I know the giant softshell exits hibernation around mid- to late-April so I would expect early May to be fine to visit? Is there anything I should be aware of or know in advance when it comes to seeing this very special inhabitant?
• Xiangzhou: It’s my understanding that the finless porpoises at Chimelong Ocean Kingdom are off-exhibit for breeding, but are the other special species (False Killer Whale and Chinese White Dolphin) on-show? How about the other special marine mammals (African Manatee, Baikal Seal, Bearded Seal)?
• Xiangzhou: How long does it realistically take to visit the “world’s largest aquarium”? How is the signage here?
• Xiangzhou: Are the Chinese and Kaluga Sturgeons signed/easy to see?
• Guangzhou: Is it possible to visit Chimelong Safari and Guangzhou Zoo in one day?
• Hong Kong: While I don’t expect to really have time to spend in Hong Kong, it does seem to be the main travel hub I need to go through in that area. As such, out of curiosity, does anyone have any sort of list of what’s kept at the Hong Kong Zoo or Kadoorie Farm? I know of the Yellow-Casqued Hornbills at HKZ and I know Kadoorie has been the source of some very rare turtles for overseas zoos, but I don’t know much else besides what’s on their websites (which for Kadoorie is not great!).
• Yangtze Sturgeon: I know this species is extinct in the wild (currently undergoing reintroduction) and is mass reproduced on farms and fisheries. Are there any zoos or aquariums in China that actually work with/display this species? There isn’t a page for this one on ZTL so I don’t know if that’s an oversight or because they’ve never been in zoos.
• Giant Salamanders: Similar to the sturgeon, I’m aware that the various species of Chinese giant salamanders are all mass reproduced on farms for consumption both specifically and generically. Do any zoos or anywhere else work with/display actual known giant salamander species?
• South China Tigers: I used to follow this topic more closely than I have in recent years, but what’s the situation with these animals? Who’s keeping the pure/mostly pure vs heavily polluted with corbetti cats these days?
• General: Are there any particulars I should keep in mind about visiting China for the first time as an American? I’m not really expecting any issues due to current politics (at least not on the Chinese side), but how is ease of navigating public transportation and social interactions? Anything specific I should keep in mind?

Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to shift through this crazy idea and help answer my questions. I’m sure I’ll think of more as the discussion gets going. I’m looking forward to reading feedback!

 

[SeaOtterHQ]

I would be very interested in reading an impartial review of Chimelong Ocean Kingdom from a Zoochatter. The species list is impressive, but I do worry about antiquated animal welfare practices at Chinese zoos.

As luck would have it, I was just looking into kaluga sturgeon in captivity. Singapore River Wonders also holds the species according to Zootierliste, which is interesting since it's quite a distance from their natural range. A few Japanese aquaria have them too, so they're not one of those species that dies after a few weeks because they can't adjust to the tank. They're critically endangered in addition to being a large, eye-catching species, so I'm curious why there isn't more interest in them from Western facilities.

 

[Chlidonias]

Beijing: Is the Zoo/Aquarium reasonably doable in one day? Google has three different locations listed for the Aquarium. Is the aquarium part of the Zoo or a separate entity (I know there is also the Blue Zoo which is different)?

There are several aquariums in Beijing I think. But yes, the aquarium you are thinking of is at the zoo. I think it has a separate entry fee but I'm not sure. I have done the zoo in a day, ten years ago, but I skimmed over the "common" stuff.

Guangzhou: Is it possible to visit Chimelong Safari and Guangzhou Zoo in one day?

Not at all. See my two reviews here:
Chimelong Safari Park: review and species list May 2025 [Chimelong Safari Park]
Guangzhou Zoo: review and species list, May 2025 [Guangzhou Zoological Garden]

Hong Kong: While I don’t expect to really have time to spend in Hong Kong, it does seem to be the main travel hub I need to go through in that area. As such, out of curiosity, does anyone have any sort of list of what’s kept at the Hong Kong Zoo or Kadoorie Farm? I know of the Yellow-Casqued Hornbills at HKZ and I know Kadoorie has been the source of some very rare turtles for overseas zoos, but I don’t know much else besides what’s on their websites (which for Kadoorie is not great!).

HK Zoo: Hong Kong Zoo: species list, 22 May 2025 [Hong Kong Zoological and Botanical Gardens]
Reviews/species lists for the other HK collections I visited (not Kaldoorie) are in the HK forum.

General: Are there any particulars I should keep in mind about visiting China for the first time as an American? I’m not really expecting any issues due to current politics (at least not on the Chinese side), but how is ease of navigating public transportation and social interactions? Anything specific I should keep in mind?

Transport is really easy. Intercity trains and the city metrolines are all in English and Chinese. There is airport-type security at all stations, with X-ray machines etc.

The Chinese equivalent of Uber is Didi, so get the app for that (I never used it so can't comment further).

You'll need a translation app on your phone - English is not frequent, to say the least. Google and associated companies is blocked in China but an eSim will get around that (I used roaming which was cheaper for me, and because it was a NZ network nothing was banned).

Get the WeChat app - both for WePay so you can pay for things (everything is done through phone apps in China - you can use cash but it can be tricky with getting change sometimes) and for WeChat itself because the hotels will add you to their account so they can communicate easier with you (there is a translation function on it).

Alipay is the other payment app for China. I mostly used WeChat, but Alipay has mini-apps in it for things like Didi.

Everyone is China is very friendly and honest - the language barrier is the main issue. If you're only going to cities and visiting zoos then you won't have any of the more frustrating issues you encounter when trying to get to remote areas.

 

[MRJ]

I am currently in the ideas (aka daydreaming) phase of planning a hypothetical trip to Asia for potentially next year. The main focus will be Java and Singapore, but I have found myself repeatedly drifting my gaze over to China as well. China is a huge country with many zoos, many biomes, and many animals, so I don’t expect to call what I’m thinking of as remotely comprehensive, but I’m wanting to try and hit as many of the major zoological collections as I can in a roughly week-long “sweep” prior to heading south.

My current rough itinerary looks something like this:

• Beijing: Beijing Zoo & Aquarium, evening flight to Xining
• Xining: Tibetan Plateau Zoo, local wildlife watching, evening flight to Shanghai
• Shanghai / Suzhou: Shanghai Zoo & Suzhou Forest Animal World, train to Tongling via Nanjing
• Tongling / Nanjing: Tongling River Dolphin National Reserve, back to Nanjing for wildlife watching and maybe Hongshan Forest Zoo, head to Xiangzhou via Hong Kong
• Xiangzhou: Chimelong Ocean Kingdom, train to Guangzhou
• Guangzhou: Chimelong Safari & Guangzhou Zoo, travel out of China

Please note that not every bullet point represents a single day, though the aim is to keep this as compact as possible. Regardless, I’m sure this looks like an insane amount of travel to do within such a short period of time—it is. I haven’t fully mapped out logistics, but it looks as though this route is possible as described. That said, I am here seeking feedback on this. Any comments, advice, or critiques are welcome.

Additionally, I am seeking some (a lot of) information:

• Beijing: Is the Zoo/Aquarium reasonably doable in one day? Google has three different locations listed for the Aquarium. Is the aquarium part of the Zoo or a separate entity (I know there is also the Blue Zoo which is different)?
• Beijing: Are the Chinese Crested Ibis strictly off-exhibit? Are the Stripe-Necked Leaf Turtles and/or Three-Keeled Land Turtles on-exhibit?
• Beijing: How does one differentiate the two hoolock species reliably? Also, are the two Argali taxa kept separate or together?
• Beijing: On ZTL, there is a “Beijing Wildlife Rescue & Rehabilitation Center” with only one species entered, Asian Golden Cat. I have been unable to find any information about where this center is located exactly or if they hold any other local rescued species. Does anyone have any further information on this place?
• Shanghai / Suzhou: How long should one budget for a visit to the Shanghai Zoo and Suzhou Forest Animal World respectively? Suzhou looks pretty tiny, Shanghai less so. I’d like to be efficient with my time, but I don’t exactly want to rush a visit to either. They’re also an hour apart by car, not sure on public transport yet.
• Shanghai: Is it true Shanghai Zoo opens at 6:30am? Are the Red Goral on-exhibit?
• Suzhou: If this happens, I am looking to time my visit for the first or second week of May. I know the giant softshell exits hibernation around mid- to late-April so I would expect early May to be fine to visit? Is there anything I should be aware of or know in advance when it comes to seeing this very special inhabitant?
• Xiangzhou: It’s my understanding that the finless porpoises at Chimelong Ocean Kingdom are off-exhibit for breeding, but are the other special species (False Killer Whale and Chinese White Dolphin) on-show? How about the other special marine mammals (African Manatee, Baikal Seal, Bearded Seal)?
• Xiangzhou: How long does it realistically take to visit the “world’s largest aquarium”? How is the signage here?
• Xiangzhou: Are the Chinese and Kaluga Sturgeons signed/easy to see?
• Guangzhou: Is it possible to visit Chimelong Safari and Guangzhou Zoo in one day?
• Hong Kong: While I don’t expect to really have time to spend in Hong Kong, it does seem to be the main travel hub I need to go through in that area. As such, out of curiosity, does anyone have any sort of list of what’s kept at the Hong Kong Zoo or Kadoorie Farm? I know of the Yellow-Casqued Hornbills at HKZ and I know Kadoorie has been the source of some very rare turtles for overseas zoos, but I don’t know much else besides what’s on their websites (which for Kadoorie is not great!).
• Yangtze Sturgeon: I know this species is extinct in the wild (currently undergoing reintroduction) and is mass reproduced on farms and fisheries. Are there any zoos or aquariums in China that actually work with/display this species? There isn’t a page for this one on ZTL so I don’t know if that’s an oversight or because they’ve never been in zoos.
• Giant Salamanders: Similar to the sturgeon, I’m aware that the various species of Chinese giant salamanders are all mass reproduced on farms for consumption both specifically and generically. Do any zoos or anywhere else work with/display actual known giant salamander species?
• South China Tigers: I used to follow this topic more closely than I have in recent years, but what’s the situation with these animals? Who’s keeping the pure/mostly pure vs heavily polluted with corbetti cats these days?
• General: Are there any particulars I should keep in mind about visiting China for the first time as an American? I’m not really expecting any issues due to current politics (at least not on the Chinese side), but how is ease of navigating public transportation and social interactions? Anything specific I should keep in mind?

Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to shift through this crazy idea and help answer my questions. I’m sure I’ll think of more as the discussion gets going. I’m looking forward to reading feedback!

Can't help you much with most of your questions. i will say the Edward Youde Aviary is highly recommended. Both the aviary and the zoo could be seen in a couple of hours and are close to Central, which is itself only 24 minutes from the airport by fast train. Therefore, they could be seen even if you only had a few hours between planes in Hong Kong.

 

[aardvark250]

[*]Xiangzhou: It’s my understanding that the finless porpoises at Chimelong Ocean Kingdom are off-exhibit for breeding, but are the other special species (False Killer Whale and Chinese White Dolphin) on-show? How about the other special marine mammals (African Manatee, Baikal Seal, Bearded Seal)?
[*]Xiangzhou: How long does it realistically take to visit the “world’s largest aquarium”? How is the signage here?
[*]Xiangzhou: Are the Chinese and Kaluga Sturgeons signed/easy to see?

There are two main part for the complex in Zhuhai chimelong, the Chimelong ocean kingdom and chimelong spaceship, which I'm not a big fan of. These two are separate attraction that charge differently but are right next to each other. The baikal seal and the majority of african manatee, as well as the orcas, are located in spaceship the indoor attraction. Assuming you aint doing any of the rides (the place is a themepark akin to your sea worlds), i'd say both attractions should be doable within a full day but nothing less. Also, the false killer whale is only viewable in the dolphin show in Ocean kingdom. I forgot about the kalugas but i do believe the chinese sturgeons were on display.

[*]Guangzhou: Is it possible to visit Chimelong Safari and Guangzhou Zoo in one day?

No. Chimelong safari park on itself will take you a full day.

[*]Hong Kong: While I don’t expect to really have time to spend in Hong Kong, it does seem to be the main travel hub I need to go through in that area. As such, out of curiosity, does anyone have any sort of list of what’s kept at the Hong Kong Zoo or Kadoorie Farm? I know of the Yellow-Casqued Hornbills at HKZ and I know Kadoorie has been the source of some very rare turtles for overseas zoos, but I don’t know much else besides what’s on their websites (which for Kadoorie is not great!).

Chli have kindly listed the HK zoo species list, and I agree with MRJ that EYA is a great aviary and they're very close to each other just a ~15 minute walk between them. Kadoorie Farm is a rescue center, so their only species on display will be those that are unsuitable for releasing back into the wild. I guess there may be some rarer rescue off display that you may able to access via contacts. For the turtles, they should have big-headed turtle, golden coin turtle and reeve's turtle on display but otherwise I'm not sure. It also is located on a steep slope and not a place i'd want to go in the summer lmao.

 

[Chlidonias]

My current rough itinerary looks something like this:

• Beijing: Beijing Zoo & Aquarium, evening flight to Xining
• Xining: Tibetan Plateau Zoo, local wildlife watching, evening flight to Shanghai
• Shanghai / Suzhou: Shanghai Zoo & Suzhou Forest Animal World, train to Tongling via Nanjing
• Tongling / Nanjing: Tongling River Dolphin National Reserve, back to Nanjing for wildlife watching and maybe Hongshan Forest Zoo, head to Xiangzhou via Hong Kong
• Xiangzhou: Chimelong Ocean Kingdom, train to Guangzhou
• Guangzhou: Chimelong Safari & Guangzhou Zoo, travel out of China

For the last section, I might suggest taking the train from Nanjing to Guangzhou, then from there to Xiangzhou, then leave China via Macau or HK. That makes more sense to me as a route.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Transport is really easy. Intercity trains and the city metrolines are all in English and Chinese. There is airport-type security at all stations, with X-ray machines etc.
The Chinese equivalent of Uber is Didi, so get the app for that (I never used it so can't comment further).

You'll need a translation app on your phone - English is not frequent, to say the least. Google and associated companies is blocked in China but an eSim will get around that (I used roaming which was cheaper for me, and because it was a NZ network nothing was banned).

Get the WeChat app - both for WePay so you can pay for things (everything is done through phone apps in China - you can use cash but it can be tricky with getting change sometimes) and for WeChat itself because the hotels will add you to their account so they can communicate easier with you (there is a translation function on it).

Alipay is the other payment app for China. I mostly used WeChat, but Alipay has mini-apps in it for things like Didi.

Everyone is China is very friendly and honest - the language barrier is the main issue. If you're only going to cities and visiting zoos then you won't have any of the more frustrating issues you encounter when trying to get to remote areas.

Thank you for all your information! These are really helpful tips. I'll also look into the train option from Nanjing.

Not at all. See my two reviews here:

Chimelong Safari Park: review and species list May 2025 [Chimelong Safari Park]
Guangzhou Zoo: review and species list, May 2025 [Guangzhou Zoological Garden]

No. Chimelong safari park on itself will take you a full day.

That's what I was expecting, but figured I'd ask. So is Chimelong Safari not the place with Black-Shanked Douc? ZTL lists them for this park but also references this ZC photo from "Chimelong Forest Park", a place that when I Google it comes back as Chimelong Safari.

ZTL also lists Pantropical Spotted Dolphin for Guangzhou Zoo which appears to be another mistake.

HK Zoo: Hong Kong Zoo: species list, 22 May 2025 [Hong Kong Zoological and Botanical Gardens]
Reviews/species lists for the other HK collections I visited (not Kaldoorie) are in the HK forum.

I tried searching for a recent HK Zoo species list here but for whatever reason your did but not show up, so thank you for linking. Looks to be about the same as what's on their website then.

Can't help you much with most of your questions. i will say the Edward Youde Aviary is highly recommended. Both the aviary and the zoo could be seen in a couple of hours and are close to Central, which is itself only 24 minutes from the airport by fast train. Therefore, they could be seen even if you only had a few hours between planes in Hong Kong.

Chli have kindly listed the HK zoo species list, and I agree with MRJ that EYA is a great aviary and they're very close to each other just a ~15 minute walk between them. Kadoorie Farm is a rescue center, so their only species on display will be those that are unsuitable for releasing back into the wild. I guess there may be some rarer rescue off display that you may able to access via contacts. For the turtles, they should have big-headed turtle, golden coin turtle and reeve's turtle on display but otherwise I'm not sure. It also is located on a steep slope and not a place i'd want to go in the summer lmao.

I did look at Edward Youde Aviary as well. @Chlidonias' species list includes some very nice species not on ZTL, but it also sounds like most of the birds are pretty impossible to see. At least for the passerines, which is where most of my lifers are. Considering these collections are free, I do think if I have time in HK between flights I may very well pop into one or the other, prioritizing the aviary as the only species I really would like to see at the zoo is the casqued hornbill (I've seen a female but not a male).

There are two main part for the complex in Zhuhai chimelong, the Chimelong ocean kingdom and chimelong spaceship, which I'm not a big fan of. These two are separate attraction that charge differently but are right next to each other. The baikal seal and the majority of african manatee, as well as the orcas, are located in spaceship the indoor attraction. Assuming you aint doing any of the rides (the place is a themepark akin to your sea worlds), i'd say both attractions should be doable within a full day but nothing less. Also, the false killer whale is only viewable in the dolphin show in Ocean kingdom. I forgot about the kalugas but i do believe the chinese sturgeons were on display.

Thank you for this information, it's very good to know!

~Thylo

 

[aardvark250]

That's what I was expecting, but figured I'd ask. So is Chimelong Safari not the place with Black-Shanked Douc? ZTL lists them for this park but also references this ZC photo from "Chimelong Forest Park", a place that when I Google it comes back as Chimelong Safari.

Chimelong forest kingdom/chimelong forest park is the 3rd chimelong complex (can you tell they're rich), located in Qingyuan, guangdong. It opened just recently to the public (earlier this year)and is nowhere near chimelong safari park which is in guangzhou. A lot of species are moved from the safari park to qingyuan for the new zoo.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Chimelong forest kingdom/chimelong forest park is the 3rd chimelong complex (can you tell they're rich), located in Qingyuan, guangdong. It opened just recently to the public (earlier this year)and is nowhere near chimelong safari park which is in guangzhou. A lot of species are moved from the safari park to qingyuan for the new zoo.

Got it, thank you for clarifying. This new park doesn't show up on Google at all when I look it up, though I can find results when searching Qingyuan Chimelong Resort. Is there a species list for the new park?

~Thylo

 

[CMP]

I did look at Edward Youde Aviary as well. @Chlidonias' species list includes some very nice species not on ZTL, but it also sounds like most of the birds are pretty impossible to see. At least for the passerines, which is where most of my lifers are. Considering these collections are free, I do think if I have time in HK between flights I may very well pop into one or the other, prioritizing the aviary as the only species I really would like to see at the zoo is the casqued hornbill (I've seen a female but not a male).

I don't think this is accurate to say. While it may be pretty difficult to see every single species, you should be able to see many of them, especially if you spend some time searching. The main problem is that the ground level path was closed off, which may still be the case, which makes it very difficult to try and locate some of the skulkier ground-dwellers. Still, many of the nice rarities, including the Broadbill, should be possible to see.

 

[YuanChang]

It is possible to visit both Beijing Zoo and its Oceanarium in a single day. The Oceanarium houses large, pure-bred Chinese sturgeons from conservation areas— a sight that is extremely rare even in China. The other oceanariums you mentioned likely refer to two other such facilities elsewhere in Beijing, which are not worth visiting.

While the crested ibises at Beijing Zoo are not on official public display, visitors can still catch a distant view of them. As for the turtle species exhibited in the Reptile House, I am not entirely certain, since I haven’t been to Beijing in recent years. The zoo often makes adjustments to its exhibits.

Distinguishing between the two species of white-browed gibbons requires professional knowledge, as it involves observing a series of features such as their eyebrows and beards. However, at Beijing Zoo, these two gibbon species are kept in separate enclosures with clearly labeled signs. You can simply check the information boards to tell them apart.

The golden cat at the Beijing rescue center you mentioned passed away a while ago. This center is not worth a special trip, and it is generally not open to the public.

 

[YuanChang]

A full day is generally needed to visit Shanghai Zoo, and it is recommended to start with the Primate Zone and the Reptile House. This is because some animals in the Primate Zone (such as orangutans) are moved back to their indoor enclosures at 3:30 p.m., and the Reptile House closes around 5:00 p.m. Carnivores and birds, on the other hand, are ideal to see in the late afternoon.

Shanghai Zoo opens at 8:00 a.m. As for the red goral, it is not on public display but is currently kept in a breeding facility within the zoo.

In fact, half a day is usually enough to visit Suzhou Shangfangshan Zoo, depending on how much time you want to spend observing and documenting the Yangtze giant softshell turtles and South China tigers. The zoo has few other highlights. The Yangtze giant softshell turtles can be visited from May to October, but it is hard to predict their exact state—their activities follow no obvious regular schedule. Furthermore, they almost never leave the water completely to bask in the sun (this seems to be a common trait of the species; even individuals in Vietnam are rarely spotted by humans, even though that one once live in Hoan Kiem Lake right in the center of Hanoi). Catching a clear view of them largely depends on luck.

Chimelong Ocean Kingdom is located in Zhuhai, Guangdong Province. However, I haven’t been there in a few years. At the very least, Chinese white dolphins, bearded seals, and African manatees are on regular display. For information about other species, I might need to check with my friends in Guangdong. When it comes to seeing Chinese sturgeons, Beijing is definitely the best place. As for Kaluga sturgeons, I have seen them in oceanariums in other regions, but I am not yet sure about their status in Guangdong. Chimelong Ocean Kingdom will definitely require at least a full day of your time.

Both Chimelong Safari Park and Guangzhou Zoo are quite large in size, and they are far apart from each other. It is unrealistic to visit both zoos in a single day.

As for Yangtze sturgeons, I have never seen any institution truly exhibit this species. Regarding Chinese giant salamanders, no facility can guarantee the purity of their bloodlines, and no individual in any zoo is worth a special trip to see.

Regarding South China tigers: The Guizhou lineage and Jiangsu-Shanghai lineage of South China tigers in Chinese zoos had already interbred by the end of the last century. Therefore, the quality of South China tigers you see will be quite similar wherever you go. The hybridization between South China tigers and Indochinese tigers is partly due to the immaturity of scientific research in the last century (Indochinese tigers had not yet been widely recognized as an independent subspecies at that time, leading to an Indochinese tiger individual from Yunnan participating in breeding programs at Shanghai Zoo). On the other hand, according to some evidence, these two subspecies may have already partially interbred in certain wild areas, which has also affected the bloodlines of current South China tigers. In short, at a time when the independence of mainland tiger subspecies is generally questioned, I don’t think this issue is so crucial.

 

[YuanChang]

A full day is generally needed to visit Shanghai Zoo, and it is recommended to start with the Primate Zone and the Reptile House. This is because some animals in the Primate Zone (such as orangutans) are moved back to their indoor enclosures at 3:30 p.m., and the Reptile House closes around 5:00 p.m. Carnivores and birds, on the other hand, are ideal to see in the late afternoon.

Shanghai Zoo opens at 8:00 a.m. As for the red goral, it is not on public display but is currently kept in a breeding facility within the zoo.

In fact, half a day is usually enough to visit Suzhou Shangfangshan Zoo, depending on how much time you want to spend observing and documenting the Yangtze giant softshell turtles and South China tigers. The zoo has few other highlights. The Yangtze giant softshell turtles can be visited from May to October, but it is hard to predict their exact state—their activities follow no obvious regular schedule. Furthermore, they almost never leave the water completely to bask in the sun (this seems to be a common trait of the species; even individuals in Vietnam are rarely spotted by humans, even though that one once live in Hoan Kiem Lake right in the center of Hanoi). Catching a clear view of them largely depends on luck.

Chimelong Ocean Kingdom is located in Zhuhai, Guangdong Province. However, I haven’t been there in a few years. At the very least, Chinese white dolphins, bearded seals, and African manatees are on regular display. For information about other species, I might need to check with my friends in Guangdong. When it comes to seeing Chinese sturgeons, Beijing is definitely the best place. As for Kaluga sturgeons, I have seen them in oceanariums in other regions, but I am not yet sure about their status in Guangdong. Chimelong Ocean Kingdom will definitely require at least a full day of your time.

Both Chimelong Safari Park and Guangzhou Zoo are quite large in size, and they are far apart from each other. It is unrealistic to visit both zoos in a single day.

As for Yangtze sturgeons, I have never seen any institution truly exhibit this species. Regarding Chinese giant salamanders, no facility can guarantee the purity of their bloodlines, and no individual in any zoo is worth a special trip to see.

Regarding South China tigers: The Guizhou lineage and Jiangsu-Shanghai lineage of South China tigers in Chinese zoos had already interbred by the end of the last century. Therefore, the quality of South China tigers you see will be quite similar wherever you go. The hybridization between South China tigers and Indochinese tigers is partly due to the immaturity of scientific research in the last century (Indochinese tigers had not yet been widely recognized as an independent subspecies at that time, leading to an Indochinese tiger individual from Yunnan participating in breeding programs at Shanghai Zoo). On the other hand, according to some evidence, these two subspecies may have already partially interbred in certain wild areas, which has also affected the bloodlines of current South China tigers. In short, at a time when the independence of mainland tiger subspecies is generally questioned, I don’t think this issue is so crucial.

Baikal seals are on regular display in the new Spacecraft Paradise section of Chimelong Ocean Kingdom. As for false killer whales, they can only be seen during specific shows.

 

[Chlidonias]

Thank you for all your information! These are really helpful tips. I'll also look into the train option from Nanjing.

You should have a browse through my latest Asia thread (it's quite long...). At the start there is discussion around what I was worried about with modern China (mostly technology related) which was largely unfounded - but I always prefer to know what could go wrong - and then throughout there's my usual discussions about the details of travel such as how buying train tickets works and that sort of thing, and then when I left China there was sort of a round-up of general information.

That's what I was expecting, but figured I'd ask. So is Chimelong Safari not the place with Black-Shanked Douc? ZTL lists them for this park but also references this ZC photo from "Chimelong Forest Park", a place that when I Google it comes back as Chimelong Safari.

ZTL also lists Pantropical Spotted Dolphin for Guangzhou Zoo which appears to be another mistake.

I think Chimelong Safari might swap animals around a lot between on and off display, especially amongst their monkeys - they didn't have many species on display when I was there (compared to the huge list they are "supposed" to have) and they were mostly common zoo monkeys.

Worth noting if you do go, they have Chinese Crested Ibis on display there.

There are dolphins at Ocean World which is inside Guangzhou Zoo but a separate entity. You can only see them during shows so I don't know which species they are (online sources say they are Bottlenose Dolphins).

I did look at Edward Youde Aviary as well. @Chlidonias' species list includes some very nice species not on ZTL, but it also sounds like most of the birds are pretty impossible to see. At least for the passerines, which is where most of my lifers are.

As @CMP says, that's not really true. The main thing is that the viewing is from a raised walkway, so the ground birds are really awkward - the aviary is thickly planted for the most part. I think @CMP saw more of the bulbuls and so forth than I did, but I'm also not going to spend as long looking for what to me are pretty common birds.

Which species there would you be particularly interested in seeing?

 

[ThylacineAlive]

I don't think this is accurate to say. While it may be pretty difficult to see every single species, you should be able to see many of them, especially if you spend some time searching. The main problem is that the ground level path was closed off, which may still be the case, which makes it very difficult to try and locate some of the skulkier ground-dwellers. Still, many of the nice rarities, including the Broadbill, should be possible to see.

As @CMP says, that's not really true. The main thing is that the viewing is from a raised walkway, so the ground birds are really awkward - the aviary is thickly planted for the most part. I think @CMP saw more of the bulbuls and so forth than I did, but I'm also not going to spend as long looking for what to me are pretty common birds.
Which species there would you be particularly interested in seeing?

That's fair enough, though if I did end up visiting I'm not sure I'd have the time to spend looking for a prolonged period of time. We'll see how all the timing comes together I suppose. The inclusion of a ground path would certainly make things a lot easier. My lifers would include:

• Black-Crested Bulbul
• Straw-Headed Bulbul
• Blue-Winged Leafbird
• Orange-Bellied Leafbird (assuming these are part of the nominate group and not lazulina/melliana which I have seen)
• Chestnut-Capped Laughingthrush
• Chestnut-Crowned Laughingthrush
• Chestnut-Capped Ground-Thrush
• Indian or Swinhoe's White-Eye
• Black-Hooded Oriole

This is based on the May species list. Of course, there are others I have seen before that I would like to again like the hornbill, scimitar-babbler, and bowerbirds. Many of these species were not seen by yourself @Chlidonias, and some of them I should be able to see in Javan bird parks. I will still make a point to visit if I have the time, of course.

It is possible to visit both Beijing Zoo and its Oceanarium in a single day. The Oceanarium houses large, pure-bred Chinese sturgeons from conservation areas— a sight that is extremely rare even in China. The other oceanariums you mentioned likely refer to two other such facilities elsewhere in Beijing, which are not worth visiting.

While the crested ibises at Beijing Zoo are not on official public display, visitors can still catch a distant view of them. As for the turtle species exhibited in the Reptile House, I am not entirely certain, since I haven’t been to Beijing in recent years. The zoo often makes adjustments to its exhibits.

Distinguishing between the two species of white-browed gibbons requires professional knowledge, as it involves observing a series of features such as their eyebrows and beards. However, at Beijing Zoo, these two gibbon species are kept in separate enclosures with clearly labeled signs. You can simply check the information boards to tell them apart.

The golden cat at the Beijing rescue center you mentioned passed away a while ago. This center is not worth a special trip, and it is generally not open to the public.

Thank you for these confirmation about Beijing. It does seem as though the only of Beijing's zoological collections worth visiting are the Zoo and its Oceanarium. The most recent Beijing species list includes the turtles as on-exhibit, but time shall tell if that remains the case. Fingers crossed! Sadly I'm not aware of any of the other parks I plan to visit aside from Chimelong Safari (which I'm now debating) exhibit the ibis. I may be left with Beijing's distant view through my 600mm lens as my only option if I can find where they're visible from.

In general it seems Beijing has some neat wildlife to see in their public parks as well (Amur Hedgehog, red squirrel, rock squirrel, Tolai Hare, Siberian Weasel, and various bats along with many birds based on iNaturalist pins) so my time in Beijing will likely be split between the zoo and looking for some of those.

A full day is generally needed to visit Shanghai Zoo, and it is recommended to start with the Primate Zone and the Reptile House. This is because some animals in the Primate Zone (such as orangutans) are moved back to their indoor enclosures at 3:30 p.m., and the Reptile House closes around 5:00 p.m. Carnivores and birds, on the other hand, are ideal to see in the late afternoon.

Shanghai Zoo opens at 8:00 a.m. As for the red goral, it is not on public display but is currently kept in a breeding facility within the zoo.

In fact, half a day is usually enough to visit Suzhou Shangfangshan Zoo, depending on how much time you want to spend observing and documenting the Yangtze giant softshell turtles and South China tigers. The zoo has few other highlights. The Yangtze giant softshell turtles can be visited from May to October, but it is hard to predict their exact state—their activities follow no obvious regular schedule. Furthermore, they almost never leave the water completely to bask in the sun (this seems to be a common trait of the species; even individuals in Vietnam are rarely spotted by humans, even though that one once live in Hoan Kiem Lake right in the center of Hanoi). Catching a clear view of them largely depends on luck.

That's what I was thinking and was fearing would be the case.. I'll have to do some shuffling around as the present itinerary unfortunately restricts Shanghai/Suzhou to a single day... Suzhou looks very small from the map I've seen, and considering there are only a few species of interest to me, I'd be surprised if I spent more than a couple of hours there, assuming of course the turtle is cooperative. It is the sheer size of Shanghai Zoo and the fact that I'd like to try and organize seeing the gorals that makes me concerned.

What are Suzhou's hours of operation? Is there a particularly "better" time of day to see the turtle since it doesn't bask on land? Does the turtle have a feeding schedule?

Chimelong Ocean Kingdom is located in Zhuhai, Guangdong Province. However, I haven’t been there in a few years. At the very least, Chinese white dolphins, bearded seals, and African manatees are on regular display. For information about other species, I might need to check with my friends in Guangdong. When it comes to seeing Chinese sturgeons, Beijing is definitely the best place. As for Kaluga sturgeons, I have seen them in oceanariums in other regions, but I am not yet sure about their status in Guangdong. Chimelong Ocean Kingdom will definitely require at least a full day of your time.

Baikal seals are on regular display in the new Spacecraft Paradise section of Chimelong Ocean Kingdom. As for false killer whales, they can only be seen during specific shows.

Thank you, I will plan accordingly for the two neighboring collections.

As for Yangtze sturgeons, I have never seen any institution truly exhibit this species. Regarding Chinese giant salamanders, no facility can guarantee the purity of their bloodlines, and no individual in any zoo is worth a special trip to see.
Regarding South China tigers: The Guizhou lineage and Jiangsu-Shanghai lineage of South China tigers in Chinese zoos had already interbred by the end of the last century. Therefore, the quality of South China tigers you see will be quite similar wherever you go. The hybridization between South China tigers and Indochinese tigers is partly due to the immaturity of scientific research in the last century (Indochinese tigers had not yet been widely recognized as an independent subspecies at that time, leading to an Indochinese tiger individual from Yunnan participating in breeding programs at Shanghai Zoo). On the other hand, according to some evidence, these two subspecies may have already partially interbred in certain wild areas, which has also affected the bloodlines of current South China tigers. In short, at a time when the independence of mainland tiger subspecies is generally questioned, I don’t think this issue is so crucial.

That's what I figured would be the case on all accounts. Thanks for confirming! It sounds like the South China Tiger situation is pretty akin to the Amur Leopard situation in terms of purity.

You should have a browse through my latest Asia thread (it's quite long...). At the start there is discussion around what I was worried about with modern China (mostly technology related) which was largely unfounded - but I always prefer to know what could go wrong - and then throughout there's my usual discussions about the details of travel such as how buying train tickets works and that sort of thing, and then when I left China there was sort of a round-up of general information.

Yes, I have been meaning to go through your Asian thread since you first informed me of it when we missed each other in Sydney last year! As you say, it's quite long so it's been a bit daunting But now that I'm planning my own travels, I suspect your threads will be very helpful indeed!

~Thylo

 

[YuanChang]

That's fair enough, though if I did end up visiting I'm not sure I'd have the time to spend looking for a prolonged period of time. We'll see how all the timing comes together I suppose. The inclusion of a ground path would certainly make things a lot easier. My lifers would include:

• Black-Crested Bulbul
• Straw-Headed Bulbul
• Blue-Winged Leafbird
• Orange-Bellied Leafbird (assuming these are part of the nominate group and not lazulina/melliana which I have seen)
• Chestnut-Capped Laughingthrush
• Chestnut-Crowned Laughingthrush
• Chestnut-Capped Ground-Thrush
• Indian or Swinhoe's White-Eye
• Black-Hooded Oriole

This is based on the May species list. Of course, there are others I have seen before that I would like to again like the hornbill, scimitar-babbler, and bowerbirds. Many of these species were not seen by yourself @Chlidonias, and some of them I should be able to see in Javan bird parks. I will still make a point to visit if I have the time, of course.



Thank you for these confirmation about Beijing. It does seem as though the only of Beijing's zoological collections worth visiting are the Zoo and its Oceanarium. The most recent Beijing species list includes the turtles as on-exhibit, but time shall tell if that remains the case. Fingers crossed! Sadly I'm not aware of any of the other parks I plan to visit aside from Chimelong Safari (which I'm now debating) exhibit the ibis. I may be left with Beijing's distant view through my 600mm lens as my only option if I can find where they're visible from.

In general it seems Beijing has some neat wildlife to see in their public parks as well (Amur Hedgehog, red squirrel, rock squirrel, Tolai Hare, Siberian Weasel, and various bats along with many birds based on iNaturalist pins) so my time in Beijing will likely be split between the zoo and looking for some of those.



That's what I was thinking and was fearing would be the case.. I'll have to do some shuffling around as the present itinerary unfortunately restricts Shanghai/Suzhou to a single day... Suzhou looks very small from the map I've seen, and considering there are only a few species of interest to me, I'd be surprised if I spent more than a couple of hours there, assuming of course the turtle is cooperative. It is the sheer size of Shanghai Zoo and the fact that I'd like to try and organize seeing the gorals that makes me concerned.

What are Suzhou's hours of operation? Is there a particularly "better" time of day to see the turtle since it doesn't bask on land? Does the turtle have a feeding schedule?




Thank you, I will plan accordingly for the two neighboring collections.



That's what I figured would be the case on all accounts. Thanks for confirming! It sounds like the South China Tiger situation is pretty akin to the Amur Leopard situation in terms of purity.



Yes, I have been meaning to go through your Asian thread since you first informed me of it when we missed each other in Sydney last year! As you say, it's quite long so it's been a bit daunting But now that I'm planning my own travels, I suspect your threads will be very helpful indeed!

~Thylo

Nearly all of us have never recorded footage of the Yangtze giant softshell turtle feeding, and its feeding habits remain a mystery. Due to old age, this turtle has severe skin rot on its mouth; some people even doubt whether it can eat normally.

When I visited last time, the softshell turtle swam around at close range at approximately 3p.m., but there was no pattern to this behavior at all.

Suzhou Shangfangshan Zoo opens at 8:30 a.m.

Regarding the red goral at Shanghai Zoo, if you can come to Shanghai at a suitable time next year, I can take you to see it in person. However, this depends on two factors: whether I have available time next year, and the condition of the red goral in a year—we are all unsure if the zoo will relocate it back to the off-exhibit breeding facility out of zoo (at Kele Road) after the renovation.

 

[YuanChang]

That's fair enough, though if I did end up visiting I'm not sure I'd have the time to spend looking for a prolonged period of time. We'll see how all the timing comes together I suppose. The inclusion of a ground path would certainly make things a lot easier. My lifers would include:

• Black-Crested Bulbul
• Straw-Headed Bulbul
• Blue-Winged Leafbird
• Orange-Bellied Leafbird (assuming these are part of the nominate group and not lazulina/melliana which I have seen)
• Chestnut-Capped Laughingthrush
• Chestnut-Crowned Laughingthrush
• Chestnut-Capped Ground-Thrush
• Indian or Swinhoe's White-Eye
• Black-Hooded Oriole

This is based on the May species list. Of course, there are others I have seen before that I would like to again like the hornbill, scimitar-babbler, and bowerbirds. Many of these species were not seen by yourself @Chlidonias, and some of them I should be able to see in Javan bird parks. I will still make a point to visit if I have the time, of course.



Thank you for these confirmation about Beijing. It does seem as though the only of Beijing's zoological collections worth visiting are the Zoo and its Oceanarium. The most recent Beijing species list includes the turtles as on-exhibit, but time shall tell if that remains the case. Fingers crossed! Sadly I'm not aware of any of the other parks I plan to visit aside from Chimelong Safari (which I'm now debating) exhibit the ibis. I may be left with Beijing's distant view through my 600mm lens as my only option if I can find where they're visible from.

In general it seems Beijing has some neat wildlife to see in their public parks as well (Amur Hedgehog, red squirrel, rock squirrel, Tolai Hare, Siberian Weasel, and various bats along with many birds based on iNaturalist pins) so my time in Beijing will likely be split between the zoo and looking for some of those.



That's what I was thinking and was fearing would be the case.. I'll have to do some shuffling around as the present itinerary unfortunately restricts Shanghai/Suzhou to a single day... Suzhou looks very small from the map I've seen, and considering there are only a few species of interest to me, I'd be surprised if I spent more than a couple of hours there, assuming of course the turtle is cooperative. It is the sheer size of Shanghai Zoo and the fact that I'd like to try and organize seeing the gorals that makes me concerned.

What are Suzhou's hours of operation? Is there a particularly "better" time of day to see the turtle since it doesn't bask on land? Does the turtle have a feeding schedule?




Thank you, I will plan accordingly for the two neighboring collections.



That's what I figured would be the case on all accounts. Thanks for confirming! It sounds like the South China Tiger situation is pretty akin to the Amur Leopard situation in terms of purity.



Yes, I have been meaning to go through your Asian thread since you first informed me of it when we missed each other in Sydney last year! As you say, it's quite long so it's been a bit daunting But now that I'm planning my own travels, I suspect your threads will be very helpful indeed!

~Thylo

Guangzhou Zoo is supposed to have added crested ibises to its exhibit recently, but I haven't gone to see them yet.

The crested ibises at Chimelong are on display at Avian Paradise, which is another park located in Panyu, Guangzhou.

 

[Chlidonias]

The crested ibises at Chimelong are on display at Avian Paradise, which is another park located in Panyu, Guangzhou.

They were on display at the Safari Park when I was there in May, on one of the islands by the monkeys (and were depicted on the map as well, so seem not to be temporary).

 

[Chlidonias]

For the last section, I might suggest taking the train from Nanjing to Guangzhou, then from there to Xiangzhou, then leave China via Macau or HK. That makes more sense to me as a route.

I had another thought on this - it would be entirely possible to do Ocean Kingdom as a day-trip from Guangzhou. I looked into this when I was there - I didn't do it in the end - but the train from Guangzhou to Zhuhai is under an hour, and then I think there are direct buses from the station to Ocean Kingdom (at worst get a taxi). It'd be a long day, but doing this would save you time because you wouldn't have to muck around with changing hotels and check-in times and all that nonsense.

Then when you leave there are direct trains from Guangzhou to HK.

 

[amur leopard]

Straw-Headed Bulbul

Indian or Swinhoe's White-Eye

For what it's worth both of these are relatively easy in Singapore (wild and captive for bulbul, only wild for the white-eye).