Toronto Zoo Toronto Zoo Developments 2019

I haven't seen them in awhile. Honestly I'm not the person to go by since I don't visit as often. Could be an error. Frankly I think the sable, gaur and tapir should be off the list since they are at Parc Safari with no plans for them to ever return. We don't currently have a pygmy marmoset. Masala left for Moncton more than a year ago and no one as arrive to replace him. If one checked the serval studbook there is no evidence we ever owned a serval. I could be wrong on that but the studbook should know all. I question other SSP's. I went through the Taxon Advisory Groups, which if you arent aware what they are let me know, and I can't find SSPs for the feather tails and chinchillas. And if we are honest we have the wrong subspecies of mouflon. Ours our European and the SSP is for Armenian.

If they want an accurate list maybe they should include more than just the mammals. The zoo is supporting 20 green SSPs, 89 yellow SSPs and 15 red SSPs for which animals actually are at the zoo.
 
We did have a Serval in the Discovery Zone though I doubt it was one that would be included in the SSP, it took part in shows.
Also do we still retain ownership of the Gaur, Tapir, and Sables? It does say off site though I agree listing is shady to say the least.
Though I'd say the same for listing Echidna I find it highly unlikely Annie us suddenly going to do any breeding unless perhaps they've saved so genetic material for the frozen zoo.
 
@kingoffreaks thanks for the feedback on the serval. Probably a rescue that they took in.

I don't know if we did retain ownership of the gaur and tapir. We definitely did own sable Savannah but Puff Daddy came from elsewhere and is genetically valuable. I doubt we own him.

If we are not going to consider any older animal as not being considered part of the SSP way more species need to go on the list. However having breeding stock is not what the SSPs consider. Not everyone can breed. Some are too old. Some have medical conditions while others are behavioral non breeders. Some are not genetically necessary for breeding but need a home. There are many ways other the breeding to contribute to the SSPs.

SSP we participate in that breeding is not possible off the top of my head...

Too old
Echidna
Tawny Frogmouth
Spotted Necked Otter (Fred but Lila is almost there too)
Gibbon
Meerkats
Fairy Bluebird
Two Toed Sloth

Medical exemptions
Babirusa (Olive)
Abyssinian Hornbill (both)
Sumatran tiger (Kemala)

Behavioral
Great Hornbill (Jonah is super aggressive)

Surplus stock
Wildebeest (castrated)
Eland (castrated)
Polar Bear (they cant go to the US so they are considered extras by the SSP)

Genetics Unknown or Unwanted completely
River Hippo
Grey Crowned Crane
White Lion
Some of the penguins (possible crosses with Humboldt)
Ring Tailed Lemur
Radiated Tortoises
Lion Tailed Macaque (inbreeding in the past means Si Nikel's kids are all unwanted)
Jaguar
Snowy Owl
Spectacled Owl

Educational
Secretary Bird

That is leaving out species or individuals just not recommended to breed because their offspring wouldn't be necessary right now.
 
Do you know the reason why the Radiated Tortoides can't breed?
Also should we start a Toronto Zoo discussion thread for this year?
 
I was at the zoo today the small structure by the Orangutans that has held empty aquariums for years has been completely demolished and replaced with various plants.
The Gahrial's tank and tank that previously held asian bonytongue are still empty undergoing repairs.
 
@kingoffreaks the radiated tortoises are not to breed because they are of unknown lineage. They don't know who they are related to possibly within the population so they will not allow them to breed. It's being done to prevent any chance of inbreeding. There is a big enough population with fully known parentage that they don't have to take any risks.

@GorillaFan15, I would say the tender for the orang construction being reissued is a very bad sign. The board was asked to approve a chosen contractor at the meeting. Clearly if its been reissued either they declined the bid or the contractor pulled out. They had 16 groups come out to hear more and see the site. Of that 16 only 4 submitted bids, all higher than the zoo thought it should be. If they only got 4 bids and one of those 4 was rejected or pulled out that only leaves 3 that were interested enough to try. Sure a few others might submit but I doubt this is a good sign. Add to that they have already extended the polar bear bids for far less work 3 times it seems like something is preventing people from wanting to work with the zoo. I have a bad, bad feeling about this. I hope that they get it together and construction starts in the spring but if they cannot get a contractor that dream will slip away. It was two weeks between submission to the board meeting last time. This one has a week before the next meeting. So we will have some kind of answer hopefully before April.

My bad I should have started a new thread for a new year when I posted the board meeting. One of us should start a new thread when a new topic comes up.
 
While they could do DNA testing that's just not something they are concerned about with this SSP. Our tortoises just aren't needed enough for breeding to make doing DNA testing worthwhile. Perhaps one day they will be asked to do something but for now they aren't necessary. Other SSP's like say the grey crowned crane want DNA testing to prove they are not cross bred with black crowned cranes. Toronto seems less than interested in that one. They have been asked for at least two SSPs now to prove Huck's lines. And if we are talking about the hippos they just want to know bloodlines and Toronto's girls come from lines that get murky just one generation up. No one seems to know or what their mothers past was so they will never breed. That one would require help from Granby and maybe they just cant provide those details.
 
I really think it's time for the SSP to start making running DNA tests mandatory, pedigrees are important but this could be really important for research.
It would prevent having to take animals from the wild and possibly find new bloodlines in the captive population.
This would be especially useful for species like Axolotl, Ring Tailed Lemur, Black and White Ruffed Lemur and other species critically endangered it the wild but plentiful enough in captivity that there bloodlines are in question.
 
@kingoffreaks, for many species DNA testing is simply unnecessary. The pedigree of all are known or a few basic assumptions can be made. However there are species where it would be beneficial because there is a higher degree of unknown pedigree. We also need to remember too that while we are spoiled by having a zoo with a world class health unit and labs. Tons of other AZA zoos and SSP non member participants don't necessarily have the same facilities and thus ability to do this kind of work. They also might not have the funds to send samples to the bigger zoos to do the work. It can become a complicated and costly endeavor for zoos who want to breed if it does become mandatory across all species. Could prevent zoos from becoming participants in as many SSPs as possible thus limiting the space available to build the populations needed just to maintain diversity. SSPs will only encourage genetic testing for the ones that need the most help building genetic diversity. In the end it's just more complex then the AZA just mandating DNA testing.

But I'm all for our zoo doing whatever testing it can to get more of our animals breeding. There is little reason why the zoo couldn't test crowned crane Huck to see if he is pure grey crowned. Why not test our African penguins which have been excluded from breeding because they may be African/Humboldt crosses? The testing though without more genetic data wouldn't help us determine if the hippos could breed. They would have to be compared to the whole population.

This is a fun little side topic. Maybe you want to start this conversation on a larger scale in a general thread?
 
Good points, I was thinking it should be an AZA project with bigger partner zoos and universities.
I know EAZA did a huge Chimp DNA project across most of not all European chimps to determine sub species, not sure who paid for it though.
As for specially Toronto and other Canadian or at least central Canadian Zoos it would nice if Guelph could volunteer to run the genetics in return for getting to study samples.
I believe there fairly involved in IBOL the international barcode of life project.
Could even use the samples to study the microbiomes of exotic species in foriegn climates.
Though if I've I'm going to far off track I do apologize.
 
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