Trip to thailand this winter

[Pedro]

Hi there!

I'm currently organizing a zoo trip to Thailand for December-January this year.
I'll arrive there on Dec 31st by plane in mid-morning and will leave by train to Malaysia early afternoon on Jan 6th.
My schedule goes as follows... tell me if you see anything wrong :

Dec 31st : Arrival in Bangkok, Pata zoo and shopping around bangkok... also look for animal markets (fishes, birds) if there's any
Jan 1st : Dusit zoo, whole day
Jan 2nd : Siam Ocean World whole day (if time left, tourism in Bangkok)
Jan 3rd : whole day at Khao Kheow open zoo and Bang Saen Aquarium
Jan 4th : second day to Dusit zoo and/or Siam ocean world, then night train to CHiang Mai
Jan 5th : Chiang Mai zoo, whole day, night train to Bangkok
Jan 6th : Early morning tourism in Bangkok, maybe visit again to pata zoo or animal markets, then train to Malaysia.


What I would like to know is if there's any other zoo or aquarium, close to Bangkok or Chiang Mai, that I could include to that trip, knowing that I can spend only one day in Chiang Mai and that I won't drive any car... will be on foot.

Concerning Khao Kheow, i'm thinking of renting a car with a driver for the whole day at the hotel I will be in Bangkok. That will cost probably a few bahts but it's my only unstressfull way to do both Khao Kheow and Bang Sean without getting lost or loosing time. Do you think it's a good Idea? is it possible to mix Khao Kheow and Bang Sean in one day with a trip from and to bangkok?
Any idea how much the car rental with driver can cost?

I also heard that there's a snake farm in Bangkok. Is it still open? Worth going there??

Last question... Is there any live animal market or shops in Bangkok city? like marine fish market, or bird market??

I have also heard (and seen pics on the gallery) about Pattaya underwater world... where is that located? Is this city close enough to Bangkok?? Do you think I can jam a visit in Pattaya Underwater world in my travel plan without risking missing something elsewhere??

In advance, thanks a lot for answering me!

 

[Chlidonias]

Dec 31st : Arrival in Bangkok, Pata zoo and shopping around bangkok... also look for animal markets (fishes, birds) if there's any
Jan 1st : Dusit zoo, whole day
Jan 2nd : Siam Ocean World whole day (if time left, tourism in Bangkok)
Jan 3rd : whole day at Khao Kheow open zoo and Bang Saen Aquarium
Jan 4th : second day to Dusit zoo and/or Siam ocean world, then night train to CHiang Mai
Jan 5th : Chiang Mai zoo, whole day, night train to Bangkok
Jan 6th : Early morning tourism in Bangkok, maybe visit again to pata zoo or animal markets, then train to Malaysia.

I’ve never heard of Pata Zoo. Where is that?
I was in Thailand in 2006 so just take the following prices as a guide because they change quite rapidly. Dusit Zoo (Khao Din) is 100 Baht entry; its easiest to get there by tuk-tuk (which will probably cost you another 100 Baht). Siam Ocean World is 450 Baht; there’s a train station right outside the Siam Paragon building (the aquarium is in the basement). You wouldn’t need a whole day at Siam Ocean World so plenty of time for shopping and tourism around the city. The cheapest way to get around in Bangkok is by bus but its very confusing if you haven’t used the Bangkok bus system before! The train is the next cheapest and is very easy to use but only covers part of the city. Tuk-tuks are handy for getting around but not for longer distances because they are expensive (say 100 Baht for a tuk-tuk versus maybe 7 Baht on the local bus) and both tuk-tuks and taxis will rip you off as much as they can

Chiang Mai Zoo is 100 Baht and a songthaew from the city to the zoo shouldn’t cost you more than 50 Baht (just so you know). The night train from Bangkok to Chiang Mai cost me about 820 Baht one way. The overnight bus cost about 560 Baht. When I went the tracks were flooded out so I had to transfer from the train to a bus, so on the way back I just took the bus the whole way. Its just as easy to sleep on the bus as on the train.

What I would like to know is if there's any other zoo or aquarium, close to Bangkok or Chiang Mai, that I could include to that trip, knowing that I can spend only one day in Chiang Mai and that I won't drive any car... will be on foot.

The only zoo near Chiang Mai that I know of is the Chiang Mai Zoo itself (and the Night Zoo, which you’ll miss of course if you’re only there for the day). By Bangkok in Minburi is the Safari World which apparently has giant pandas but which I avoided on principle (see my comments in the Khao Kheow thread). In Bangkok is a natural history museum, situated in the zoology block at the Chulalongkorn University. Its free and open to the public but I think rarely visited (they had to unlock the doors for me to get in). There is a lot of Thai wildlife here in preserved form including, for example, white-eyed river martin. The University is easily reached by bus, train, tuk-tuk or taxi.

Concerning Khao Kheow, i'm thinking of renting a car with a driver for the whole day at the hotel I will be in Bangkok. That will cost probably a few bahts but it's my only unstressfull way to do both Khao Kheow and Bang Sean without getting lost or loosing time. Do you think it's a good Idea? is it possible to mix Khao Kheow and Bang Sean in one day with a trip from and to bangkok?
Any idea how much the car rental with driver can cost?

It will cost you a LOT I think to hire a car and driver to do Khao Kheow from Bangkok but it is the only way to do it easily if you can’t drive yourself. (Alternatively you could take the bus to Chonburi – about 55 Baht from Bangkok – and hire a songthaew or taxi there for the day but you probably wouldn’t be saving much). Bang Saen’s not a large aquarium (its at the Marine Science Institute at the Burapha University) so you can do both Khao Kheow and Bang Saen on the same day so long as you leave Bangkok early. I would do the aquarium first thing in the morning then spend the rest of the day at Khao Kheow. Bang Saen is 100 Baht, and is open 8.30 to 4 on weekdays, 8.30 to 5.30 (I think) on weekends. Khao Kheow is also 100 Baht and is open 8 to 6.

All I know about car rental is that it cost me 1400 Baht for a car for two days at Chiang Mai, and 600 for petrol; and Chiang Mai would be a lot cheaper than in Bangkok.

I also heard that there's a snake farm in Bangkok. Is it still open? Worth going there??

I vaguely recall seeing “snake farm” and “crocodile farm” on a map of Bangkok when I was over there but that’s all I can say. John Nichol’s “The Animal Smugglers” (1987) discusses the Samutprakan crocodile farm outside Bangkok which had 30,000 crocodiles and also a zoo (in which an unfortunate tiger posed for photos with tourists – but which had had all the bones in its feet removed so that it couldn’t stand or hurt anybody). Personally I avoid crocodile farms.

Last question... Is there any live animal market or shops in Bangkok city? like marine fish market, or bird market??

The Chatuchak Weekend Market (on Saturday and Sunday obviously, open 7am to 6pm) sells EVERYTHING!!! Its huge and very confusing to navigate. Books, clothes, flowers, framed insects, you name it and its there somewhere. There is a big illegal animal trade here but you won’t see it: they are raided regularly and so all the illegal stuff is kept well hidden. Instead its mainly pets on view – including a very large number of pedigree puppies surprisingly. The most heartbreaking sight here are the baby squirrel stalls selling dozens and dozens of barely-weaned squirrels with their teeth and claws removed and tied by their necks with ribbons so they don’t escape. The Market is easily reached by bus, tuk-tuk or train.

I have also heard (and seen pics on the gallery) about Pattaya underwater world... where is that located? Is this city close enough to Bangkok?? Do you think I can jam a visit in Pattaya Underwater world in my travel plan without risking missing something elsewhere??

Pattaya can be reached from Bangkok by bus. It takes about 2.5 hours. It is south of Chonburi (1.5 hours from Bangkok) so potentially, given that you’ll have a car and driver, you could leave very early from Bangkok, do Pattaya Underwater World first thing in the morning then head back up to Chonburi and do Bang Saen late morning and Khao Kheow in the afternoon. It would be a rushed day but it could be done. Having said that, I didn’t think much of Pattaya Underwater World. It is quite nice but if you’ve already been to the Siam Ocean World then Pattaya Underwater World comes across as a very poor second (and the town itself is a horrible little tourist hole). Bang Saen is a completely different sort of aquarium (a University aid rather than a flash tourist attraction) and I liked it a lot, but its very much a matter of taste.

If you do go to Pattaya on the bus its about 120 Baht each way from Bangkok (and then a songthaew to the aquarium for around 100-200 Baht depending on how much the driver feels like taking you for). The entry price to the Underwater World is a hefty 360 Baht.

 

[Pedro]

Hi Chlidonias, Thank you very much for all these helpfull information!
After what you said, I think i'll leave Pattaya out of my schedule, unless I really find myself to have a whole day free and nothing to do, which will probably not be the case.
I found the name Pata zoo on a thai tourist website, it seems to be the name of this small zoo, located on top of a commercial center, in Bangkok. Have you visited it?

 

[Chlidonias]

I hadn't heard of the Pata "zoo" when I was over in Thailand so I didn't visit, and judging from what I've read I definitely won't visit it when I return to Thailand. This is an article about the appalling place (I originally posted it as a link in the Chiang Mai thread, then forgot about it, but it seems that link doesn't work now, so here goes...)
Menagerie on Top Floors of Thai Department Store - International Primate Protection League ~ IPPL

Menagerie on Top Floors of Thai Department Store
December 2004

Before and during the October 2004 Conference of the Parties to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species, known as CITES, the IPPL team made two visits to investigate the "zoo" at the Pata Department Store in Thonburi on the outskirts of Bangkok.

We were appalled to find so many animals living on the sixth and seventh floors of the crowded department store. The place was extremely noisy and unbearably hot and humid. The unfortunate animals were housed in sub-standard and, in many cases, unsanitary housing.

Among the animals living on top of the department store were two gorillas, several orangutans, chimpanzees, and two species of gibbons. In addition the zoo held mandrills, lemurs, and rare leaf monkeys. It also held large cats and bears. All the animals looked bored and most seemed depressed.

History of Pata Zoo

Pata Zoo was founded in 1984. During that same year it acquired its first gorilla who was named Bwana. The origin of this animal is unclear. In 1987 a female infant gorilla was acquired. She was given the name Buanoi. The zoo purchased the animal from Siam Farm, an animal dealership run by a man named Daeng. This dealer was well known for his interest in albino animals, and the zoo is still breeding albino pigtail and long-tailed macaques.

The 1992 fire

In May 1992 a fire at Pata Zoo caused the deaths of the animals living on the sixth floor. Those on the top floor, including the primates, survived.

On 8 May 1992, the Bangkok Post expressed opposition to the zoo’s reopening in an article headed "Stop death cages from being filled again."

Tuesday’s fire at the Pata Department Store in Thon Buri would have been treated just like any fire in Bangkok, except for the fact that the store itself contains a small private zoo and that about 100 rare birds and small animals were killed in the blaze. Luckily, large animals such as the polar bear, the rare Bengal tiger, lions, orangutans, and a lowland gorilla narrowly survived the blaze... The poor creatures would not have had to undergo the tragic and harrowing ordeal in the first place, had they been left to roam free in their wild habitats, instead of being cruelly caged in a zoo located in a high-rise building.

Apparently motivated solely by financial considerations, the Pata Department Store has, for years, defied the complaints of animal lovers and protests from international wildlife conservation organizations...

The authorities are to be blamed for the incident and for the very existence of the zoo... Private zoos in department stores or on hotel rooftops are akin to death traps. The premise itself signifies cruelty and inhumanity. How many more animals have to be hunted down, killed or snatched from their natural habitat just for the purpose of being caged in a private zoo and being stared at? How many more have a death warrant hanging over them, just waiting for the next disastrous fire?

In 1992, after learning that the zoo had obtained a second gorilla (a wild-caught female imported from Africa), IPPL called for the confiscation of the youngster after arranging for her to be accepted at the gorilla rescue center in the Congo Republic.

The zoo showed IPPL a purported "certificado de origen" issued to "Wabi Bello" for the export of one "mono gorilla" weighing 10 kilograms to "Siam Farm Zoological Garden, Bangkok, Thailand." The Iberia Air waybill identified the recipient as "Dr. Daeng, Pata Zoo, Bangkok." Despite Thailand’s being a member of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species, the young gorilla was not confiscated. Conditions for the animals apparently did not improve.

Following a 2000 visit, former British zoo-keeper Richard Freeman commented,

On the roof of the building the mammals and birds are kept in truly appalling conditions. I am an ardent supporter of responsible zoos with good breeding programs - they are vital to save many endangered species. But slapdash holes like Pata zoo belong in the dark ages. Here gorillas, tigers, leopards, orangutans, and pigmy hippos were kept in enclosures the size of the average living room. Worst were the bears. Three sun bears and an Asian black bear in a bare concrete enclosure with no den or climbing facilities. It could not have been more than ten feet square. A woman was selling cakes to feed to them so their existence was nothing more than sleeping and begging. Ironically the zoo had some rare animals hardly ever seen in British zoos such as umbrella birds, Burmese ferret badgers, and yellow martins. These were totally wasted as exhibits in such a vile excuse for a zoo.

In February 2004, local Bang-Plad district officials inspected the zoo following public complaints. Amazingly, they saw no problems. According to the 28 February issue of the Nation,

Officials of Bangkok's Bang Plad district rushed to once-popular Pata Zoo yesterday following complaints that animals there were ailing and being kept in poor conditions. But they found none sick or ill housed. District office director Wiboon Noppakhun and Bang Plad councillor Jakkaphan Pornnimit led the inspection of the zoo on the upper floors of the Pata department store near the Pinklao Bridge. Contrary to complaints, they found no animals in poor health or being kept in foul-smelling conditions. The zoo was once popular with star attractions like penguins and bicycle-riding orangutans. The officials acted after zoo visitors snapped pictures of what they claimed were sick animals and posted them on the Internet, urging the facility's closure.

However, Roger Lohanan of the Thai Animal Guardians Association expressed concern about the zoo’s limited space, which prevented it from taking better care of its animals, and feared that the zoo could be a source of disease for Pata shoppers because it shares the ventilation system with the store.