Why College Students Should Not Be Assigned Homework

[UngulateNerd92]

I normally don't post threads like this or threads outside of sections pertaining to zoos and wildlife, but I found this person's op-ed interesting, and having had a few stints in college, I very much wholeheartedly agree with and relate to everything this person has to say. I would be interested in hearing other people's opinions on this. As this person mentioned at the end of the article, you may be able to pass an accounting test, but that doesn't mean you will know how to deal with a customer, and again as she brought up, in lieu of traditional homework, college students should have internships, externships, and volunteer positions pertaining to their major starting their freshman year (they usually start junior year as far as I know, and unfortunately alongside traditional homework). I would also add to that students attending conferences and symposiums pertaining to their major instead of traditional homework.

"I felt like a third grade brat when this topic came to my mind but the more and more I think about it, I once again find myself strongly standing against homework in college. Students are struggling to multi-task schoolwork, work and having fun in college. Let’s not forget how important sleep is when it comes to being a student. With so much happening after school, sleep is the last thing on a student's mind. It is not that I do not like homework or am too lazy to do it, I simply do not think homework is beneficial in any way."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ts-should-not-be-assigned-homework-2478234005

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I normally don't post threads like this or threads outside of sections pertaining to zoos and wildlife, but I found this person's op-ed interesting, and having had a few stints in college, I very much wholeheartedly agree with and relate to everything this person has to say. I would be interested in hearing other people's opinions on this. As this person mentioned at the end of the article, you may be able to pass an accounting test, but that doesn't mean you will know how to deal with a customer, and again as she brought up, in lieu of traditional homework, college students should have internships, externships, and volunteer positions pertaining to their major starting their freshman year (they usually start junior year as far as I know, and unfortunately alongside traditional homework). I would also add to that students attending conferences and symposiums pertaining to their major instead of traditional homework.

"I felt like a third grade brat when this topic came to my mind but the more and more I think about it, I once again find myself strongly standing against homework in college. Students are struggling to multi-task schoolwork, work and having fun in college. Let’s not forget how important sleep is when it comes to being a student. With so much happening after school, sleep is the last thing on a student's mind. It is not that I do not like homework or am too lazy to do it, I simply do not think homework is beneficial in any way."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ts-should-not-be-assigned-homework-2478234005

I'm not against it per se, but what I am absolutely against is it being used as the sole metric for the formation of conservation biologists and I think that when regurgitation becomes the prime focus of "education" it is a total load of horse s*** and really quite destructive. There have been a lot of papers published that have been very critical of this tendency within the educational system and I can't remember all of them off the top of my head but this is one that I do remember reading and often find myself thinking about.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...k_of_Human_Dimensions_in_Conservation_Biology

University and a textbook understanding of ecology / conservation does not at all prepare students for the complex realities that will meet them when they begin facing real-world conservation scenarios. Neither does it teach students the core values and intrinsic qualities of character that are necessary to meet these challenges head on with grit.

I don't like the religiosity of CS Lewis but I always remember this quote of his which I think describes the situation well :

“We make men without chests and expect from them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful”

Unfortunately there are a lot of the "castrated" who went through the education system out there. This is a crisis discipline and there is no substitute for real world experience in that regard and like so many things in life a person's mettle is only revealed when they are actually thrown into the fray. You do not train a doctor or paramedic through text books and exams as they must learn their craft through actually treating patients in life and death scenarios, a soldier cannot only be taught by drills, parades and on the firing range and only truly becomes one through combat experience on the battle field, a boxer does not learn his /her craft through hitting the speed ball and heavy bag but through continuous sparring and so on and so on.

Was Gerald Durrell a university graduate with A grade homework and a PHD ? No, he wasn't, he was a visionary with a strength of will and his own unique vision that had been formed by experience, immersion and engagement with the real world. In fact he continuously came up against "educated" and scientific "big wig" academic naysayers throughout his career and was initially treated as a pariah for his "out there" opinions.

 

[UngulateNerd92]

@CarLover you may appreciate and empathize with this article.

 

[UngulateNerd92]

I am of the firm belief that all schools and colleges should abolish homework. The author of this article brings up fantastic points, many of which I related to as a pupil during my own school years... Anxiety, depression, disengagement, and feels of inadequacy were a part of my own schooling experiences growing up.

"Why I Think All Schools Should Abolish Homework.

How long is your child’s workweek? Thirty hours? Forty? Would it surprise you to learn that some elementary school kids have workweeks comparable to adults’ schedules? For most children, mandatory homework assignments push their workweek far beyond the school day and deep into what any other laborers would consider overtime. Even without sports or music or other school-sponsored extracurriculars, the daily homework slog keeps many students on the clock as long as lawyers, teachers, medical residents, truck drivers and other overworked adults. Is it any wonder that,deprived of the labor protections that we provide adults, our kids are suffering an epidemic of disengagement, anxiety and depression?"

Why I Think All Schools Should Abolish Homework

 

[Jurek7]

Schools should explain more clearly, that being able to concentrate, self-control and force oneself to do unpleasant things is a skill by itself, which must be learned and practiced.

Think about those mystical Eastern masters of martial arts, who did things like step in circle until a hole was worn in stone etc.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Schools should explain more clearly, that being able to concentrate, self-control and force oneself to do unpleasant things is a skill by itself, which must be learned and practiced.

Think about those mystical Eastern masters of martial arts, who did things like step in circle until a hole was worn in stone etc.

Not really actually as school is not a requisite environment for learning any of those core values or civic lessons that you mention and in many cases is wholely destructive for that purpose.

Evidence suggests that these can be imparted in other environments and ways with much greater success rates.

Ancient Chinese Taoist martial arts practices and their pedagogical relevance to modern education and schooling hummmm okay.....

I can think of a far better example from the far East of today which isn't so mystical and is as ugly and damning as it gets.

 

[UngulateNerd92]

Not really actually as school is not a requisite environment for learning any of those core values or civic lessons that you mention and in many cases is wholely destructive for that purpose.

Evidence suggests that these can be imparted in other environments and ways with much greater success rates.

Ancient Chinese Taoist martial arts practices and their pedagogical relevance to modern education and schooling hummmm okay.....

I can think of a far better example from the far East of today which isn't so mystical and is as ugly and damning as it gets.

This would be Japan and it's education system which along with wider societal issues is driving an epidemic crisis of youth suicide which is at a 30 year high and is predicted to increase.

@Onychorhynchus coronatus I couldn't agree with you more!

The skills (concentration, self control, and forcing oneself to do unpleasant or uncomfortable things) that @Jurek7 mentioned, from my life experiences, I will say that like many things in life, they have their place, but they have their limits.

About my ideal schooling/education system, we can look to Finland. Here is what I shared in a Facebook post I made a while back;

"I have to say, I really like the education system in Finland and I would like to see their system/formula duplicated throughout the United States and perhaps the rest of the world. What I like about their school system is that they have no homework, shorter school days, smaller class sizes (1 teacher and 1 aide per 10 to 12 students if memory serves me right), and no standardized testing. Another thing I really like that would have served me well in my childhood and adolescence due to sub-par schooling experiences is that schooling past a certain age (I want to say like 15 or 16) isn't compulsory. My very favorite part of their education system is that it is illegal to start and run a school or college and charge tuition, thus private schools don't exist. To be frank, personally, I don't think private schools should be allowed to exist! They make it so rich, poor, and middle class students attend the same schools so that the rich/wealthy kids will form friendships and peer-groups with poor and middle class kids, so the rich kids don't financially or economically screw over the poor and middle class kids in the future due to them formulating those friendships early on. On that note, I think all education needs to be secular and never religious! For those that want to practice religion, here in the United States, that is why we have freedom of religion in the First Amendment, but that needs to be separated from education. I think we would be in such a better place if a Finnish style school system was far more common..."

Here is a video clip from the Michael Moore documentary "Where to invade next" discussing Finland's schools. I have to say, I like the idea of not needing a hall pass just to simply use the restroom. This type of education system, I feel that every human being is entitled to!

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

@Onychorhynchus coronatus I couldn't agree with you more!

The skills (concentration, self control, and forcing oneself to do unpleasant or uncomfortable things) that @Jurek7 mentioned, from my life experiences, I will say that like many things in life, they have their place, but they have their limits.

About my ideal schooling/education system, we can look to Finland. Here is what I shared in a Facebook post I made a while back;

"I have to say, I really like the education system in Finland and I would like to see their system/formula duplicated throughout the United States and perhaps the rest of the world. What I like about their school system is that they have no homework, shorter school days, smaller class sizes (1 teacher and 1 aide per 10 to 12 students if memory serves me right), and no standardized testing. Another thing I really like that would have served me well in my childhood and adolescence due to sub-par schooling experiences is that schooling past a certain age (I want to say like 15 or 16) isn't compulsory. My very favorite part of their education system is that it is illegal to start and run a school or college and charge tuition, thus private schools don't exist. To be frank, personally, I don't think private schools should be allowed to exist! They make it so rich, poor, and middle class students attend the same schools so that the rich/wealthy kids will form friendships and peer-groups with poor and middle class kids, so the rich kids don't financially or economically screw over the poor and middle class kids in the future due to them formulating those friendships early on. On that note, I think all education needs to be secular and never religious! For those that want to practice religion, here in the United States, that is why we have freedom of religion in the First Amendment, but that needs to be separated from education. I think we would be in such a better place if a Finnish style school system was far more common..."

Here is a video clip from the Michael Moore documentary "Where to invade next" discussing Finland's schools. I have to say, I like the idea of not needing a hall pass just to simply use the restroom. This type of education system, I feel that every human being is entitled to!

Definitely agree with you regarding Finland !

A family member of mine is a civil servant / diplomat who spent a few years in Finland and had only positive things to say about not only their education system but their attitudes in general.

 

[UngulateNerd92]

Definitely agree with you regarding Finland !

A family member of mine is a civil servant / diplomat who spent a few years in Finland and had only positive things to say about not only their education system but their attitudes in general.

Ah very nice. I would be interested in hearing his stories...

 

[Zooplantman]

This seems to be a broadbrush criticism of a certain kind of college experience for certain kinds of students.
For any serious specialty (medicine, education, horticulture, zoology, finance, to name a few) one cannot learn all one needs sitting in a classroom. Additional background reading, research, etc. deepens and expands the knowledge. How to take that knowledge and use it to start a career is a separate issue but without the foundation there will be no building.

University and a textbook understanding of ecology / conservation does not at all prepare students for the complex realities that will meet them when they begin facing real-world conservation scenarios. Neither does it teach students the core values and intrinsic qualities of character that are necessary to meet these challenges head on with grit.

Perhaps, but without the background these students would be useless in the field.

Was Gerald Durrell a university graduate with A grade homework and a PHD ? No, he wasn't, he was a visionary with a strength of will and his own unique vision that had been formed by experience, immersion and engagement with the real world. In fact he continuously came up against "educated" and scientific "big wig" academic naysayers throughout his career and was initially treated as a pariah for his "out there" opinions.

One cannot hold up the exception and from that create a rule. Most students are not Durrell

On the other hand, if one is preparing to become a cog in a corporate machine or a capitalist entrepreneur then such deep knowledge is pointless. Just learn what the activities of the position are and how to play the corporate game. Apprenticeships would make more sense for this career path.College is not necessary or approproaye for every career and it is a waste that we now assume that every person must go to college in order to succeed.

The author's case that college students need time to party and sleep and so should not have additional reading assignments seems a hold-over from elementary school. Perhaps the author feels like a third grade brat because she is thinking like one.

 

[Zooplantman]

I would add:
If your "homework" is "busywork" you have a crappy professor. You don't derive educational norms from that

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

On the other hand, if one is preparing to become a cog in a corporate machine or a capitalist entrepreneur then such deep knowledge is pointless. Just learn what the activities of the position are and how to play the corporate game. Apprenticeships would make more sense for this career path.College is not necessary or approproaye for every career and it is a waste that we now assume that every person must go to college in order to succeed.

Well indoctrination to become a cog in a machine is precisely what the Japanese education system and indeed most education systems excel at isn't it ?

I'm not sure that your characterization of higher education and the ivory tower as being an environment that exists apart from and in contrast to corporatism and capitalism rings very true (but I can imagine that perhaps when you were a student this may have been the case.. alas times have changed).

Sadly today nothing could be further from the truth as universities have in fact become corporations that are run along business lines.

Moreover regarding higher education and academia I would argue that it typically encourages students to become a cog in the neoliberal university either through the extortionate fees that are paid by the undergraduate or master's student (if we are talking about universities in the USA or the UK) or through the "PhD trap" which is often likened to indentured servitude.

Again I see no distinction really with what you've mentioned about lack of standards as to rise through the ranks to occupy a favoured position in academia (or even as an undergraduate student) one only need only rely on Machiavellian intelligence and learn to play the political game and become a consummate brown noser and sycophant and that isn't so different from the cutthroat organizational culture of corporations is it ?

Capitalist entrepreneurs ?

I wonder if you are thinking of prominent critics of higher education and universities like Peter Thiel when you said that ?

I have to say that I quite agree with many of the arguments that Thiel and others from that venture capitalist field have made of higher education and particularly of the corruption that exists within it but without actually subscribing to their economic ideology.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

@Zooplantman

True it is a broad criticism because I am personally deeply cynical about higher education in general and the sharp disconnect in the broader sense between it's purported aims and functions and contribution to society and the mismatch with reality.

I am particularly skeptical about higher education and the field of conservation biology and the formation of conservation biologists because of what I've witnessed first hand and I'm by no means alone in having reached these conclusions.

You are of course correct in stating that a sound theoretical background knowledge of the field is a requirement for any discipline and just to clarify that isn't actually something I'm arguing against.

However what that presupposes in the context of higher education is that professors are efficient educators that are able to impart that knowledge and ideally augment a passion for the subject at hand to their students.

Unfortunately that is starkly at odds with the reality of the research institute where research not teaching is the top priority and professors (and their indentured servant PhD students) are absolutely incompetent at being educators because these are skills that are no longer encouraged and honestly are resented.

Now of course the onus on background research and reading is also on the student through self directed study.

However that can easily be done today without even attending a lecture or seminar and through accessing articles on sites such as Sci-hub or a good old fashioned library card without paying colossal amounts of money for a substandard "education".

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

@Zooplantman sorry about all these comments but I'm just trying to answer each of your points one by one (and in no particular order ).

Again I agree with you that the theoretical base is important as a foundation but then again so is the experiential and without that a person is also useless in the field.

I've worked with field assistants in in-situ from dirt poor backgrounds and zoo keepers ex-situ and both with no formal education but what they lacked in qualifications they made up for in grit and wealth of experience and interest in the field and I can only speak for myself but personally I would choose one of them by my side in work rather than someone with a doctorate or someone possessing an A grade undergrad degree each and every time.

When I look to bring people into the project or assess whether to accept a person in I am only paying the minimum of attention to their degrees but conversely I am scrutinizing both experience / transferable skill set (which may not even be in the life sciences) and their core values and passion because for me personally these are the real indicators that they will be a productive and committed member of the team or whether they are incompatible.

I would say that a more pertinent question is not how one takes that knowledge to start a career (in the conservation sense) but rather how one takes that knowledge and applies it to efforts to save a species or ecosystem with the career in most cases being just a byproduct of this endeavour because this is more a vocation than a conventional career really.

An even more pertinent question is whether the knowledge (obtained within university / academia) is the right kind of knowledge in the sense of transferable real world skills and experience and core values that are beneficial to a crisis discipline such as conservation.

I've seen top students (in the academic metric sense and not in the brown nosing social climbing sense) who are like walking talking PowerPoint slides and great for writing assignments or in some kind of research capacity but utterly useless for the cut and thrust of real world Conservation.

Good academic research may have benefits for conservation but that does not mean it constitutes conservation nor that it's priorities are commensurate with those of conservation on the ground which involves everything from advocacy to media to managing teams to gruelling fieldwork to mentoring and always involves passion and self sacrifice and grit and long term commitment that extends to decades and even whole lifetimes.

Many PhD students who graduate and come out of the system often due to the competitive and narcissistic "dog eat dog" nature of academia typically from what I've observed may obtain leadership positions in real world Conservation but lack leadership and core values or interpersonal skills and can actually end up causing real damage because of this (again this is a personal observation relating specifically to types I've encountered who were products of US and UK PhD programs and working with larger species).

 

[Zooplantman]

I believe that this adds to the serious conversation.

But, in a more serious vein, the question raised was about whether college students should or should not have "homework." We have lost that focus
Whatever is actually meant by "homework" here, the question is not is college of any worth or has the Japanese system stressed students. I haven't seen anyone here suggest that internships and field experience are not important. Good questions but not THIS question.
I will not bother to engage in straw men arguments.
If a college education consists of only what can be taught in classrooms plus internships then the quality of the graduates will fall even lower than it already has, imo

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I believe that this adds to the serious conversation.

But, in a more serious vein, the question raised was about whether college students should or should not have "homework." We have lost that focus
Whatever is actually meant by "homework" here, the question is not is college of any worth or has the Japanese system stressed students. I haven't seen anyone here suggest that internships and field experience are not important. Good questions but not THIS question.
I will not bother to engage in straw men arguments.
If a college education consists of only what can be taught in classrooms plus internships then the quality of the graduates will fall even lower than it already has, imo

Fair point.

Once I have access to my laptop I'll post some videos on this thread that you may find interesting.

Also point taken that most if not all of my comments have been a criticism of higher education and not so much about the role of home work / assignments.

I think assignments sometimes have their place as an exercise of deepening knowledge and articulating through writing a comprehension of the subject matter and of demonstrating critical thinking.

However I don't think they are really an indicator of meaningful engagement in the learning process and can often just be a hoop to jump through.

 

[Zooplantman]

However I don't think they are really an indicator of meaningful engagement in the learning process and can often just be a hoop to jump through.

And we come back to the question of what is meant by "homework"? Is it work outside classroom? Is it work sheets to fill in and submit?
The article teats it as anything that takes a student's time outside of the classroom (well that's how I read it) and I say from my (long ago) experience that th reading and research I did outside the classroom is what made the time inside the classroom make sense.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

And we come back to the question of what is meant by "homework"? Is it work outside classroom? Is it work sheets to fill in and submit?
The article teats it as anything that takes a student's time outside of the classroom (well that's how I read it) and I say from my (long ago) experience that th reading and research I did outside the classroom is what made the time inside the classroom make sense.

I think that what the author defines as homework is basically the traditional definition of a written assignment set by a teacher or professor on a given subject and with a set deadline to be completed in a students free time.

I guess I could say that I have had a similar experience to you in that regard in that I was usually more engaged with self directed learning through reading and researching around a topic (and usually not what was assigned ) than in classroom lectures or seminars.

But in all honesty I never considered that sort of thing homework unless it was specifically for an assignment but rather just indulging my own interest and the pleasure of finding things out and reading.

I think there is something to be said for the concept of the educator being an effective facilitator of self directed and active learning in the student rather than as a gatekeeper of learning through teacher directed learning.

That said there are plenty of professors out there who use the term and onus of self directed learning cynically in order to justify their own inability and unwillingness to teach / be an effective educator or be accessible to student so I think it depends on the context.

 

[Simon Hampel]

This seems to be a broadbrush criticism of a certain kind of college experience for certain kinds of students.
For any serious specialty (medicine, education, horticulture, zoology, finance, to name a few) one cannot learn all one needs sitting in a classroom. Additional background reading, research, etc. deepens and expands the knowledge. How to take that knowledge and use it to start a career is a separate issue but without the foundation there will be no building.

Having studied Computer Systems Engineering and Computer Science in university - I largely agree with this.

We had the highest contact load (ie face-to-face teaching) of pretty much every course except medicine and then huge technical assignments on top. There is so much technical knowledge to learn (and practice!), you cannot possibly do it all in 4 years of face-to-face learning.

While a lot of the work we did aimed to be practical - the stark reality is that the majority of it is obsolete for most people within 6 - 12 months of leaving university, because technology changes so quickly.

The only way to compete in the ever-changing IT and high-technology industries is continuous learning. If you can't teach yourself new skills - you will quickly be left behind and become obsolete.

Medicine is similar in that there is a large amount of base technical skill and knowledge required - but then a lot of the higher level knowledge that gets taught changes on an ongoing basis. To continue to be a skilled practitioner, you need to keep up with those rapid changes.

This continuous education is not the responsibility of employers (although in some cases they need to facilitate it) - it is the responsibility of the individual if they wish to remain relevant in any technical discipline.

The key aspect of university level education in these situations is teaching the students HOW TO LEARN. Not how to pass university exams - but how to continue learning once you have demonstrated sufficient skill and knowledge to be able to pass them.

I get that there are plenty of courses which are based around regurgitating facts in an exam or other such useless nonsense with little or no practical aspect. I have very little respect for most of these and feel they take up a large amount of university funding for very little value to society.

I also get that universities are not all created equal - and two students studying the same subject at different institutions may have a vastly different experience.

The point being to agree with @Zooplantman in the assertion that these broadbrush criticisms are not universally applicable.

I find the article linked to in the original post to be completely lacking in insight or putting forward any kind of persuasive argument beyond "OMG I hate boring homework - please make it stop".

The desire to avoid homework "busy work" and instead to do an internship where they are "making a real difference" is completely naive. The stark reality is that a large amount of work in the real world is "busy work" and if you can't cope with the boring and mundane stuff - you're never going to achieve anything in life.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Having studied Computer Systems Engineering and Computer Science in university - I largely agree with this.

We had the highest contact load (ie face-to-face teaching) of pretty much every course except medicine and then huge technical assignments on top. There is so much technical knowledge to learn (and practice!), you cannot possibly do it all in 4 years of face-to-face learning.

While a lot of the work we did aimed to be practical - the stark reality is that the majority of it is obsolete for most people within 6 - 12 months of leaving university, because technology changes so quickly.

The only way to compete in the ever-changing IT and high-technology industries is continuous learning. If you can't teach yourself new skills - you will quickly be left behind and become obsolete.

Medicine is similar in that there is a large amount of base technical skill and knowledge required - but then a lot of the higher level knowledge that gets taught changes on an ongoing basis. To continue to be a skilled practitioner, you need to keep up with those rapid changes.

This continuous education is not the responsibility of employers (although in some cases they need to facilitate it) - it is the responsibility of the individual if they wish to remain relevant in any technical discipline.

The key aspect of university level education in these situations is teaching the students HOW TO LEARN. Not how to pass university exams - but how to continue learning once you have demonstrated sufficient skill and knowledge to be able to pass them.

I get that there are plenty of courses which are based around regurgitating facts in an exam or other such useless nonsense with little or no practical aspect. I have very little respect for most of these and feel they take up a large amount of university funding for very little value to society.

I also get that universities are not all created equal - and two students studying the same subject at different institutions may have a vastly different experience.

The point being to agree with @Zooplantman in the assertion that these broadbrush criticisms are not universally applicable.

I find the article linked to in the original post to be completely lacking in insight or putting forward any kind of persuasive argument beyond "OMG I hate boring homework - please make it stop".

The desire to avoid homework "busy work" and instead to do an internship where they are "making a real difference" is completely naive. The stark reality is that a large amount of work in the real world is "busy work" and if you can't cope with the boring and mundane stuff - you're never going to achieve anything in life.

Yep agree with most of your points here about teaching how to learn and the importance of a mentality of lifelong learning.

My significant other is a doctor and without having had both the theoretical foundation of her field and direct experience and immersion or internato within the hospital environment in her early career she wouldn't have the correct balance and skill set (technical and soft skills) to improve wellbeing and save lives in her work now.

Point taken that not all universities or academic departments are the same and that each will have their own organizational culture but so many of these problems are so commonly reported within my field that this suggests to me that this is a very real and prevalent problem particularly in USA and UK.

I agree with your last point regarding "busy work" which rings very true and while I dont really think "internships" (these are too short in duration ) and certainly not "paid internships" (total load of **** IMO) are the answer I am absolutely convinced at least with regards to conservation as a field that experiential knowledge and immersion is essential in the formation of conservationists.