ZooChat Cup Group C: Plzen vs Rotterdam
- Thread starter CGSwans
- Start date
I don't think Rotterdam is far ahead of Plzen, but I prefer Rotterdam over Plzen
Both our scores are not wrong and neither is necessarily better, in the majority of this contest domestics have however not been included, which is why I left them out. People can decide for themselves whether they want to count them.
Just to get back to Plzen before I will give an overview of Rotterdam. I am aware of the huge water space the Pygmy hippo have, but indoors really is quite bad and as they are a solitary species I wonder how much time each Hippo can spend time in the large outdoor enclosure, the smaller side enclosure was not much to write home about...
Plzens hooftstock enclosures are mostly pleasant and spacious, but to me not particularly memorable, whereas in Rotterdam I would say there are currently 3 particularly memorable complexes:
1) The Giraffe house is visually stunning as well as spacious inside and the outdoors is also well done, quite possibly my favourite giraffe house (after the one in Berlin) The Reticulated giraffe share it with Greater kudu:
2) The Okapi aviary. It is not Doue and I have been critical of it, as it has replaced a fantastic native bird aviary and is not huge outside. The indoor part for the Okapi is easily the best in Europe and outdoors might not be large, but it is not smaller than in e.g. Basel or Frankfurt. The combination of Okapi with a large number of African birds works quite well and it livens up the enclosure:
This picture shows less than half of the total indoor space
3: Often overlooked in Rotterdam is the unique architecture of the place, The whole zoo was originally designed by one architect: Sybold van Ravensteijn and his work is quite unique and Diergaarde Blijdorp may be the best place to see his remaining work. The renovation of the former Elephant and hippo enclosures for Black rhino and Pygmy hippo is from an architectural point of view a triumph, if not somewhat small for the animals:
One of 3 Rhino outdoor enclosures
Rhino indoors
Soon there will be more hoofstock in Ravensteijn's architecture as pure subspecies Barbary sheep should arrive soon from Spain to share the wonderful Gelada enclosure:
The Elephant house Taman Indah used to be a highlight of the zoo and 25 years ago it was one of the pioneers in a new way of keeping Elephants indoors by moving away from small cubicles. Now it will be in need of renovation soon as space requirements have changed, but it is still not bad:
The same complex has also fine enclosures for Indian rhino and Malayan tapir, though the indoor situation is not optimal
(shows about half)
Some other enclosures spread around the zoo:
Banteng & Blackbuck
One of two Tufted deer enclosures
Visayan spotted deer
Bongo enclosure
Forest buffalo enclosure (which can be accessed by Red river hog as well
All in all Plzen might have larger enclosures, none really stick to the mind for me, whereas Blijdorp has several quite impressive enclosures. The focus might be more on architecture, but the Berlin Zoo would also be just an average zoo if not for the larger number of wonderful old buildings, which give the zoo a certain atmosphere. This match is close, but I would rather visit Blijdorp for its ungulates than I would visit Plzen for the same reason.
I shall say something, shouldn't I? 
Since June 2019 Plzen no longer keep Musk Ox, they will be replaced by either takin or yak, the yak seems like a more probable option.
They are being switched on half-day basis I think...
That is because the Dall's sheep one is basically invisible from all paths unless it's winter.
Also, I marked on picture by @TeaLovingDave what area of the lake is actually accessible by hippos as they canť access the canal around de Brazza's monkey island.
The colobus island is accessible by two sets of stairs and is split in half by rocks so two hippos can be there at the same time.
Warthogs are fine, there is barely any contact between the exhibits and cheetah is no danger for an adult Warthog.
As a whole, exhibits in Plzen are great, baring some small technical issues. I don't think that pygmy hippo is THAT bad, however, it has its limits. If Plzen would have only a pair of hippos, it would be perfectly average exhibit in winter and absolutely awesome in the summer. But as there is a third hippo, for now, the function of this exhibit is severely diminished...
However, I have to vote 2-1 for Rotterdam (don't ever mention it during your Plzen visits! ) with zoos being tied for me exhibit-wise. But Rotterdam edges it on collection.
Looking at the scores...I pretty much kicked out Plzen out of competition didn't I? 
Since June 2019 Plzen no longer keep Musk Ox, they will be replaced by either takin or yak, the yak seems like a more probable option.
They are being switched on half-day basis I think...
That is because the Dall's sheep one is basically invisible from all paths unless it's winter.
Also, I marked on picture by @TeaLovingDave what area of the lake is actually accessible by hippos as they canť access the canal around de Brazza's monkey island.
The colobus island is accessible by two sets of stairs and is split in half by rocks so two hippos can be there at the same time.
Warthogs are fine, there is barely any contact between the exhibits and cheetah is no danger for an adult Warthog.
As a whole, exhibits in Plzen are great, baring some small technical issues. I don't think that pygmy hippo is THAT bad, however, it has its limits. If Plzen would have only a pair of hippos, it would be perfectly average exhibit in winter and absolutely awesome in the summer. But as there is a third hippo, for now, the function of this exhibit is severely diminished...
However, I have to vote 2-1 for Rotterdam (don't ever mention it during your Plzen visits!
) with zoos being tied for me exhibit-wise. But Rotterdam edges it on collection.Looking at the scores...I pretty much kicked out Plzen out of competition didn't I?
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However, I have to vote 2-1 for Rotterdam (don't ever mention it during your Plzen visits!
You'll have to watch your back
Well, things are a lot more fair and even at the moment when compared to last night
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However, I have to vote 2-1 for Rotterdam (don't ever mention it during your Plzen visits!
Looking at the scores...I pretty much kicked out Plzen out of competition didn't I?
Well, let’s put it this way. As things currently stand Columbus is ahead by about 0.3%, and Plzen is set to be eliminated. Were you to switch your vote, Plzen would indeed be in position to qualify, as a tie is enough for them to go through.
Everybody: there is no truer, purer example of abiding by the spirit of the rules than Homin96 right now.
I imagine, going by those figures, that even if one additional person votes for Plzen but Rotterdam still won (ie the final score was 18-19) then Plzen would scrape through?
You'll have to watch your back
Luckily, I spend most of the time with keepers who are realistic (maybe even pessimistic at certain times) about the zoo, so the issues we face are discussed mostly in a civil way.
Knowing Rotterdam Zoo very well I think @lintworm does give a good description of the place and also I largely agree with is views. I think Rotterdam deserves the win although Plzen puts up a good fight thanks to a couple of nice exhibits. The collection in Rotterdam I (personally) think is just much better than that of Plzen. With the addition of elephants, okapi and a extra rhino species compared to Plzen I find it way more interesting. I'm generally of the option that on this level of zoos we are talking about zoos should have (well exhibited) elephants. As them being such important animals in the public eye and in general characteristic for zoos. Furthermore, the exhibiting in Rotterdam zoo is in general very good. They have made often a wonderful combination between the modernized historic Ravensteyn architecture and new naturalistic exhibits.
Well, let’s put it this way. As things currently stand Columbus is ahead by about 0.3%, and Plzen is set to be eliminated. Were you to switch your vote, Plzen would indeed be in position to qualify, as a tie is enough for them to go through.
Everybody: there is no truer, purer example of abiding by the spirit of the rules than Homin96 right now.
Yes, it is nice to see a lack of controversy in this particular match. Nothing has been worse than the whining and crying that has accompanied some of the more recent closely-fought contests. Honesty is the best policy and this group has been a tight one. Things could still change, but at this moment in time both Rotterdam and Columbus would advance, which would see Plzen and Singapore eliminated. One could almost imagine the roles being reversed, such is the quality that is evident at all 4 of these world-class zoos. It's a bit shocking to see that Rotterdam might end up with a 3-0 record and the other trio of zoos all with the same 1-2 scoreline.
I hope the second sentence isn't directed at me....
Anyway I am really finding it hard tamale a decision due to the votes on both sides....
I have withdrawn my vote in favour of Rotterdam, but I am curious to see whether this changes the Columbus situation....
Things have moved slightly since this post but at the moment, holding the current score line in Columbus-Singapore even, a 20-19 Rotterdam victory here (that is, 59-58) would see Plzen go through by 0.11%. That’s correct to two decimal places, though it’s so close I’d probably go back and do it to three just to be sure of rounding error.
As things currently stand it’s a comparatively safe 0.37% lead to Columbus. There’s still a day left though for someone to come up with an argument that sways the overall result, in either thread, or indeed a combination of the two. For instance, one defection from Rotterdam to Plzen, combined with one defection from a 3-0 to 2-1 result in the other thread would put Plzen back in front by 0.3%.
Your vote for Rotterdam appears to still be in place; I have noticed in the past that once a vote has been cast it is possible to alter it but not to withdraw it entirely.
Perhaps if your intention IS to cancel your vote for now, you should explicitly confirm this in-thread so @CGSwans can take this into account?
... it’s one thing for me to disregard votes based on rules verdicts, as I have just done on the other thread, but it’s quite another for me to undertake not to count votes because of a changed mind. I can’t do that, I’m afraid - if nothing else, due to the additional risk of confusion and incorrect counting, If you’re not confident making a decision (that you can, after all, later change), then you should wait to cast a vote until you are ready.
I’m also going to take this moment to remind people against changing their vote based on preferred qualification outcome. I’m enjoying the high stakes drama here, but while you can be alive to the significance of a voting decision, you have an obligation to other voters not to be swayed by it. Vote based on the category, not the outcome, or the game breaks. There’s a particular vote that’s just been cast that is... eyebrow-raising.
I’m also going to take this moment to remind people against changing their vote based on preferred qualification outcome. I’m enjoying the high stakes drama here, but while you can be alive to the significance of a voting decision, you have an obligation to other voters not to be swayed by it. Vote based on the category, not the outcome, or the game breaks. There’s a particular vote that’s just been cast that is... eyebrow-raising.
Fair enough
it was worth clearing the matter up in any case, given AL's statement of intent.The score has been sat at 20-16 for a good few hours now, after someone switched from Plzen to Rotterdam, so I'm not sure which vote you mean?
Fair enough
The score has been sat at 20-16 for a good few hours now, after someone switched from Plzen to Rotterdam, so I'm not sure which vote you mean?
Lintworm and a couple other arguments may be making me swing my vote back towards Rotterdam though....this ones very tough. Hardest decision for me so far. I started as Rotterdam and went to Plzen, but may be swinging back and. I think I need to sleep on it.
It's definitely a very close one - possibly as close as the recent Wroclaw/Berlin match. I think it deserves to be closer than the score currently shows, to be honest, but I'm mostly just pleased that I managed to sway things away from the ridiculously unbalanced state of affairs at the start of this match