ZooChat Cup S2 Match #6: Cleveland vs Oregon

[pachyderm pro]

Two very well balanced mid-sized zoos go head to head in a category that both could use improvement in, primates. The primate houses at both zoos are mediocre (I am not sure if Oregon's is still as bad as it was) and ultimately some of these zoos biggest weak points. However, both zoos also have strong points to make up for it. Oregon zoo has the Red Ape Reserve for orangutans (which are off exhibit at the moment) and gibbons. Cleveland on the other hand has its rainforest building with large functional exhibits for small and medium sized primates, but is brought down by its all indoor orangutan exhibit. It anyone's guess which zoo will take this match,

The concept behind this poll is explained here: ZooChat Cup Season 2

Tomorrow: Dallas vs San Diego Zoo Safari Park

 

[ThylacineAlive]

So I dug through the zoo's websites and found they keep the following species:

Oregon Zoo: Allen's Swamp Monkey, Chimpanzee, Black-and-White Colobus, DeBrazza's Monkey, Mandrill, Northern White-Cheeked Gibbon, Sumatran Orangutan, Bornean Orangutan.

Cleveland Metroparks Zoo: Aye-Aye, Mohol Bushbaby, Muller's Gibbon, Western Lowland Gorilla, Crowned Lemur, Mongoose Lemur, Red Ruffed Lemur, Ring-Tailed Lemur, Pygmy Slow Loris, Mandrill, Golden-Bellied Mangabey, Geoffroy's Marmoset, Allen's Swamp Monkey, Brazilian Black Howler, Kikuyu Black-and-White Colobus, Common Squirrel Monkey, Francois' Langur, Goeldi's Monkey, Colombian Spider Monkey, Bornean Orangutan, Potto, White-Faced Saki, Geoffroy's Tamarin, Golden Lion Tamarin, Pied Tamarin, Bolivian Grey Titi.

While Cleveland loses points for its all indoors orangutan exhibit, I think their species list really does deserve them the win here. The best thing Oregon has going for them species-wise is the swamp monkey, but Cleveland also keeps them. Not to mention a solid collection of lemurs included several rarely kept species. I mean, unless their primate enclosures are absolutely horrendous, which I have no reason to believe they are, then the mere presence of several rare and endangered species not often kept in US zoos is enough for me to feel confident voting for them. Oregon could still win my vote should anyone have any information about bad husbandry at its competitor or word of extensive conservation programs, but for now I'm parking my vote in Ohio.

~Thylo

 

[snowleopard]

@ThylacineAlive Thanks very much for compiling that species list. Great stuff!

I visited Cleveland Zoo in 2010 and I've been to Oregon Zoo on 6 occasions and I would give my vote to that latter zoo. Neither zoo is actually very impressive for primates but at least Oregon has half-decent exhibits for just about all of its primates. The Sumatran/Bornean Orangutan/Northern White-Cheeked Gibbon enclosures are decent but unspectacular and the Chimpanzee exhibit is fairly large and grassy although there is going to be an overhaul of the Primate Building by 2020. Oregon's primate highlight is the Black-and-White Colobus/Allen's Swamp Monkey exhibit which is top-notch and well worth checking out in the ZooChat gallery.

Cleveland's all-indoor orangutan exhibit offers up height but is very poor; many of the RainForest building primate exhibits are merely adequate. The old Primate, Cat and Aquatics Building is in drastic need of either a bulldozer or a major refurbishment as some of the primate exhibits there are downright awful. Cleveland clearly has the better collection but I am struggling to think of a single primate exhibit that is above-average. My vote goes to Oregon Zoo.

 

[birdsandbats]

My vote goes to Cleveland. They have a better collection, especially when it comes to prosimians.

 

[Coelacanth18]

So this is a tough one. On the one hand, Cleveland's collection is indeed easily superior, especially with their impressive collection of prosimians (potto, aye-aye, slow loris, bushbaby, and lemurs). Additionally, the zoo does conservation work for gorillas and orangutans, as outlined here: Wildlife Conservation. I couldn't find any primate-specific conservation work that Oregon is doing.

On the other hand, I'm not very impressed with what I've seen from Cleveland exhibit-wise. As far as I know, there are not currently plans to replace or drastically renovate the Primates, Cats, and Aquatics building, although I do believe the gorilla enclosure is going to be renovated in the next few years. Meanwhile, Oregon Zoo's enclosures do not seem exceptionally good, but they do appear to be much better than Cleveland's, especially for orangutans.

Right now, I'm leaning moderately towards Cleveland, as I know that exhibits are harder to judge from pictures than from seeing them in real life, and the other attributes for Cleveland outweigh the exhibit difference for me.

 

[d1am0ndback]

In my visit to Cleveland I don't recall the exhibits being so bad they are worthy of voting against (the orangutan exhibit was awful though), especially when they are paired against a zoo that itself doesn't have great primate exhibits.

What can't be ignored is the significant advantage Cleveland has with it's collection of rarities such as aye-aye, potto, and bushbaby, as well as over 3 times the species Oregon has (Oregon has 8, Cleveland has 26 according to the lists from Thylacine).

Because neither zoos have great exhibits yet one of them has triple the species the other one, my vote is with Cleveland for now.

 

[snowleopard]

This subjective voting of zoos in various categories is quite interesting and opinions vary greatly on this site. In terms of primate species then Cleveland Zoo wins in a landslide if one looks strictly at the animal collection but my belief is to vote for the zoo that has fewer primate species but much better exhibits for those animals. Cleveland has its very poor orangutan enclosure, a large number of merely adequate primate exhibits, and many downright horrendous ones in the Primate, Cat and Aquatics building. I like Cleveland Zoo quite a bit but I cannot in good faith vote for it in this category. I honestly think that the PCA building should be turned into a world-class Reptile House and all of those terrible indoor cement bunkers and stained carpets should have been overhauled a decade or two ago. Ugh.

Oregon Zoo isn't stupendous for primates either, but I listed some photos of above-average exhibits below. Each to their own, but I'd rather vote for a zoo with a third of the species in better habitats than a zoo with 50 different primate species. I might be in the distinct minority but a zoo with modern exhibits will get my vote every single time. For example, there is a place I've toured called the Feline Conservation Center in southern California with close to 20 species of cat (including North Chinese Leopard, Jaguarundi, Margay, Sand Cat, etc.) and I suspect that many ZooChatters would vote for that facility in a feline poll over a more substantial zoo even though the enclosures leave a lot to be desired as they are 'adequate' at best. I'd vote for Memphis and its 10 species of cat in modern exhibits over the Feline Conservation Center and all of its incredible rarities. Quality over quantity is how I'd sum up my stance.

The primate enclosures shown below are better than anything that Cleveland has to offer:

Here are a couple of images of the Colobus/Allen's Swamp Monkey exhibit:

Allen's Swamp Monkey/Colobus Exhibit | ZooChat

Colobus Monkey/Allen's Swamp Monkey Exhibit | ZooChat

Chimpanzee exhibit:

Chimpanzee Exhibit | ZooChat

Two images of Red Ape Reserve:

Red Ape Reserve - New In 2010 | ZooChat

Red Ape Reserve - New In 2010 | ZooChat

 

[ThylacineAlive]

@snowleopard you are doing a great job of convincing me to switch! I do agree with your quality over quantity argument very much, but unfortunately I feel I still must lean towards Cleveland on this one. I think you'd have convinced me if Oregon only had a few less species or maybe even half, and they were all kept in superb enclosures, but at less than 1/3 the species mostly kept in adequate enclosures while Cleveland only has one real bad one, I think Oregon loses out.

~Thylo