Australian (and NZ) Great Ape News and Discussion
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Karen is the result of a mating between Karta and her father, Otis. I assume this inbreeding is why it was decided not to breed from her. Karen does look very much like her mother, probably unsurprising!
It seems like just incredibly bad luck that Karta's last two were stillborn. All the preparation in the world couldn't help that- aside from perhaps doing a C-section, and that means a whole other set of challenges.
It seems like just incredibly bad luck that Karta's last two were stillborn. All the preparation in the world couldn't help that- aside from perhaps doing a C-section, and that means a whole other set of challenges.
Thanks for that info, yes that's almost certainly why. You think they'd have known that females can breed as young as 6-7 years and separated her from her sire, or contracepted her to prevent this. I take it Karen was removed from her for handraising as Karta was exported to Australia the year Karen was born.
Like you say, it was just sheer bad luck her last two were stillborn (ie. could happen to any orang-utan), so considering they now feel confident they've identified the problem (Karta being unable to feed her offspring) and the solution, I think they'd be silly not to try again, and keep trying until they have success.
I think the main concern is putting Karta through the grieving process again and again if they continue to have sheer bad luck. She grieves very deeply and it would definitely be a concern for her welfare. I'm desperately hoping that won't be the case this time.
I believe Karen was taken from Karta due to the infant failing to feed. Karen also had a hole in her heart discovered at the age of two, which was successfully operated on. I believe Karen was the result of a contraception failure. OPENING THEIR HEARTS
A presentation from 2012 about Karta may be of interest: http://www.orangutanssp.org/uploads/2/4/9/9/24992309/karta_-_jodie_ellen.pdf
I believe Karen was taken from Karta due to the infant failing to feed. Karen also had a hole in her heart discovered at the age of two, which was successfully operated on. I believe Karen was the result of a contraception failure. OPENING THEIR HEARTS
A presentation from 2012 about Karta may be of interest: http://www.orangutanssp.org/uploads/2/4/9/9/24992309/karta_-_jodie_ellen.pdf
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Great info and presentation Soona. Really hope it works out for Karta. I've heard orangutans can breed successfully into their early 40s, especially if they have bred before so at 34, Karta should have no more chance of having a stillbirth than any other orangutan.
Interesting how her sister at the Denver Zoo has the same issue. Sounds like a genetic condition. Possibly only passed on through the female line so if Karta's infant is male, and survives to breed, it may break the cycle. Of course, it could be a recessive gene that causes it, so Kluet's genes' may override it regardless of gender.
Btw, you're probably the best person to ask. How is Galatea getting on with breeding? Is Zombi going to be put back on contraceptives soon?
Galatea has gradually been getting more consistent swellings, but as yet no pregnancy. There are no plans to anaesthetise her to remove the fading contraceptive implant largely because of the risk involved. Though it is unlikely she'd die under anaesthetic, it isn't worth the risk while the group already has a very unbalanced sex ratio. The group has been very unsettled with the loss of Soona, political upheavals brought about by Sandali's challenging Tsotsi, and the fall out from Sandali's injury (Gombe and Boyd have only a few weeks ago been successfully reintroduced to him). Losing Galatea would be an absolute disaster for the well being of the chimps.She is a very maternal female, showing a lot of caring and protective behaviours towards Enzi and Zuri. I have no doubt that when the time comes, and I hope it isn't too far off, she will be a model mother.
I'm not aware of any plans to put Zombi on contraceptives. I expect, for the reasons above, it wouldn't be something likely to happen in the near future. I'm not sure of what the recommendations might be regarding breeding Zombi again- it might be nice for her to have a break. Her offspring would still be fairly valuable to the region (though would be more so if Sandali gave Tsotsi a look in), so I don't imagine that would be a problem, and Monarto certainly has the capacity for a larger chimp group- which is their intention.
I'm not aware of any plans to put Zombi on contraceptives. I expect, for the reasons above, it wouldn't be something likely to happen in the near future. I'm not sure of what the recommendations might be regarding breeding Zombi again- it might be nice for her to have a break. Her offspring would still be fairly valuable to the region (though would be more so if Sandali gave Tsotsi a look in), so I don't imagine that would be a problem, and Monarto certainly has the capacity for a larger chimp group- which is their intention.
Good point, the last thing they want is a repeat of what happened with Zwala. I hope they're able to acquire some new females soon, or at least make use of the two breeding females they have.
Back in the day, the females at Taronga used to breed around every 2-3 years if the previous infant survived so Zombi could well have a new baby in around 18 months if they do so desire. Would be nice if she had at least another two daughters with Sandali and then they could remain in the troop to breed with Tsotsi down the line. I'd imagine they'd look at vasectomising Sandali if he continues to be the only father of offspring in the group.
Back in the day, the females at Taronga used to breed around every 2-3 years if the previous infant survived so Zombi could well have a new baby in around 18 months if they do so desire. Would be nice if she had at least another two daughters with Sandali and then they could remain in the troop to breed with Tsotsi down the line. I'd imagine they'd look at vasectomising Sandali if he continues to be the only father of offspring in the group.
I've been imagining the same. Both Zombi and Galatea prefer Sandali, so it would be a surprise to no one if he sired more infants, who if female could potentially breed with Tsotsi. Also, if Galatea (or an imported female) were to produce an infant with Tsotsi, he or she could then potentially breed with Zuri or Enzi down the track. I expect, at least in the medium term, that Zombi's two kids would remain at Monarto. The intention is definitely to bring in a couple of females from Europe; it's a huge priority right now, just a case of waiting until individuals become available.
This statement is not actually correct. The gorilla enclosure is on the same site as the panda enclosure, but only the moat (and perhaps the visitors pathway along the moat) are from the original exhibit. Everything else was knocked down and rebuilt.
Hix
That's an excellent history of Karta up to 2012.
It seems she has good mothering instinct, but probably an inability to feed the live babies as discussed earlier. It also means she has never had a chance to develop her maternal skills properly as the live babies have all died so quickly. The 'space bottle' / supplementary feeding idea sounds the answer and according to the Zoo's press release is how they intend to proceed if need be- the problem being perhaps how to get a tiny newborn baby to focus on a foreign object like an artificial teat. I suppose they can just direct it to the baby's mouth if its close to the mesh. One other option- if she will give it up -might be to handraise it, where she can see it, for the early weeks and then give it back to her when it is stronger.
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Thanks for the clarification Hix. I have had mixed answers about the history of this enclosure in the past. Do you have any photos of when it was the Panda enclosure?This statement is not actually correct. The gorilla enclosure is on the same site as the panda enclosure, but only the moat (and perhaps the visitors pathway along the moat) are from the original exhibit. Everything else was knocked down and rebuilt.
Hix
No, I didn't see the Pandas.
The only photo I have was taken a couple of years later when Toby the Tapir was living in the exhibit, as far as I could tell, unchanged from when it held Pandas. Not the best for showing the enclosure, but I realise now that the moat has been widened considerably for gorillas, and probably deepened as well.
Hix
I believe Taronga like to replicate the wild situation where males born in the community remain with their mother for life, while females born in the community are exported. However Monarto hasn't got the luxury of a large group, and the gender balance is strongly tilted towards the boys. With this in mind, I'd be amazed if they exported Zuri when she reached adolscence. Back in the day, many Taronga females remained in the commmunity to breed and I can see Zuri doing the same. I don't know how many more offspring they're willing for Sandali to sire but one more with Zombi and one with Galatea (both hopefully female) should do it. Bearing in mind his brother Shikamoo (M03) at Taronga is a father of two, and he also has another brother at Taronga, Sule (M08), Sandali would then be significantly better represented that Tstotsi, who has just a sister and a niece at Hamilton Zoo.
Will be interesting to see where Lani (F02) and Sembe (F08) at Taronga Zoo go. I was of the opinion they'd be leaving once they reached adolscence but if they are to leave soon, then why go through the hassle of introducing them to the three new females?
I wasn't aware, but thanks!
Wow, Hix, is that really the gorilla exhibit? You're right, it looks completely different. It actually looks a lot like the exhibit that held pygmy hippos/Malayan tapirs for many years (opposite the snow leopards), although I suppose in total it must have been considerably larger - I guess they were probably built at similar times.
Tragic news from Adelaide Zoo. It was always a risk to allow Karta to continue the pregnancy, and it is devastating that her long struggle to rear an infant ended in such sadness. Karta's strong character, ingenuity and close bond with Kluet touched many; she was a truly great ambassador for her species.
Adelaide Zoo is mourning the loss of our beloved 34-year-old Sumatran Orangutan Karta, who tragically passed away last night.
Karta went into labour at around 6pm last night and gave birth to what is believed to be a stillborn infant. Tragically, just hours later she passed away.
The exact cause of death will not be known until we complete a full post-mortem.
Staff and volunteers are deeply saddened by this loss, which marks a heartbreaking end to an unexpected pregnancy.
Zoos SA Chief Executive Elaine Bensted said losing Karta was like losing a family member.
“Our hearts are broken; it has been a very tough 12 hours for us,” Elaine said.
“These life events are even more impactful and devastating when we are talking about a critically endangered species like the Sumatran Orangutan.
“This wasn’t a planned pregnancy, with Karta on contraception, but nature intervened and she fell pregnant.
“After careful consideration, we proceeded with the pregnancy because Sumatran Orangutans are critically endangered in the wild and we believed Karta deserved the opportunity to finally become a mother.
“We were realistic about the challenges faced in the past, and we were doing everything in our power to ensure this had a different ending.
“Our focus now is on supporting our dedicated primate team who have been by Karta’s side through this entire journey, and of course Karta’s partner, Kluet our male Sumatran Orangutan.”
Zoos SA Senior Veterinarian Dr Ian Smith said complications after birth are not unusual for Great Apes.
“Similar to humans, complications at birth or within a few days after birth are not unusual for Great Apes, however, unlike human births, there is less opportunity for medical intervention,” Ian said.
“Such interventions can also have potentially tragic consequences for the orangutan.
“The exact cause of death is unknown at this point, but we will be completing a full post-mortem on Karta and the infant in the coming days.
“Our team was doing everything in their power to support Karta through the pregnancy including night shifts and performing regular ultrasounds.
“An ultrasound was performed on Wednesday which showed a strong heart beat and no signs that the baby was in distress.
“We’re all devastated by this heartbreaking loss.”
Heartbreaking news from Adelaide Zoo - Adelaide Zoo
In other orangutan news, Jantan and Willow will make the move to Mogo Zoo, while Orana Wildlife Park will import Sumatrans. With Auckland Zoo also making the transition toward housing Sumatrans, does anyone know what is planned for their Bornean/hybrid group (Charlie, Melur and Wanita)? I expect that in time Adelaide Zoo will be importing a partner for Kluet; the current exhibit has the capacity for four orangutans, and thus far introductions between Kluet and Puspa have been unsuccessful- though I do wonder if that will change after the sad loss of Karta.
Adelaide Zoo is mourning the loss of our beloved 34-year-old Sumatran Orangutan Karta, who tragically passed away last night.
Karta went into labour at around 6pm last night and gave birth to what is believed to be a stillborn infant. Tragically, just hours later she passed away.
The exact cause of death will not be known until we complete a full post-mortem.
Staff and volunteers are deeply saddened by this loss, which marks a heartbreaking end to an unexpected pregnancy.
Zoos SA Chief Executive Elaine Bensted said losing Karta was like losing a family member.
“Our hearts are broken; it has been a very tough 12 hours for us,” Elaine said.
“These life events are even more impactful and devastating when we are talking about a critically endangered species like the Sumatran Orangutan.
“This wasn’t a planned pregnancy, with Karta on contraception, but nature intervened and she fell pregnant.
“After careful consideration, we proceeded with the pregnancy because Sumatran Orangutans are critically endangered in the wild and we believed Karta deserved the opportunity to finally become a mother.
“We were realistic about the challenges faced in the past, and we were doing everything in our power to ensure this had a different ending.
“Our focus now is on supporting our dedicated primate team who have been by Karta’s side through this entire journey, and of course Karta’s partner, Kluet our male Sumatran Orangutan.”
Zoos SA Senior Veterinarian Dr Ian Smith said complications after birth are not unusual for Great Apes.
“Similar to humans, complications at birth or within a few days after birth are not unusual for Great Apes, however, unlike human births, there is less opportunity for medical intervention,” Ian said.
“Such interventions can also have potentially tragic consequences for the orangutan.
“The exact cause of death is unknown at this point, but we will be completing a full post-mortem on Karta and the infant in the coming days.
“Our team was doing everything in their power to support Karta through the pregnancy including night shifts and performing regular ultrasounds.
“An ultrasound was performed on Wednesday which showed a strong heart beat and no signs that the baby was in distress.
“We’re all devastated by this heartbreaking loss.”
Heartbreaking news from Adelaide Zoo - Adelaide Zoo
In other orangutan news, Jantan and Willow will make the move to Mogo Zoo, while Orana Wildlife Park will import Sumatrans. With Auckland Zoo also making the transition toward housing Sumatrans, does anyone know what is planned for their Bornean/hybrid group (Charlie, Melur and Wanita)? I expect that in time Adelaide Zoo will be importing a partner for Kluet; the current exhibit has the capacity for four orangutans, and thus far introductions between Kluet and Puspa have been unsuccessful- though I do wonder if that will change after the sad loss of Karta.
BennettL
Well-Known Member
If a partner could be imported for Kluet maybe Charlie the Bornean from Auckland?Orana are yet to confirm housing Orangs but with facilities and rumours it is likely they will.With Jantan and Willow set to depart to Mogo maybe Willow's half sister hydrid Wanita could join them.Melur could be exported to the US to breed and Charlie some place in Oceania.
BennettL[/QUOTE]
I thought is was confirmed that Orana was to house orangutans. In their anniversary brochure it is stated that it's happening, and I've been told that they have individual orangutans lined up to come to the zoo.
I wouldn't be surprised if Wanita joined Jantan and Willow.
I wouldn't be surprised if Wanita joined Jantan and Willow.