Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo news 2017 #1
- Thread starter Giant Panda
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- baby newborn orangutan twycross zoo
Because it's one less species housed in a barely adequate (especially the indoor) enclosure for which the zoo will have not have to plan for. Even if it's okay now it's going to be looking unsuitable in not very many years i.e. a ticking millstone of an exhibit in a zoo that's got too many exhibits like that to improve or rebuild. Something has to give and a lot of species could be rehoused for the same money it'd cost to give Twycross a modern "future proofed" elephant exhibit. It's drastic action and the visitors will miss 'em but hopefully they'll avoid looking like Dudley did a few years back with loads of outdated exhibits -good exhibits/animals will bring people in but too many poor ones can give a place a bad reputation with the public and put them off returning.
Chester Charlie
Member
Is this the reason the zoo put Tonzi down late last year as with her having an arthritic condition at the quite young age of thirty two no zoo would want her?
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
Was the house that bad? (Genuine question, not a rhetorical attempt to make a point!). It's a long time since I've been in it, but it never struck me as particularly poor (especially in comparison with the housing for the great apes and the leopards at Twycross). The outdoor paddock is excellent, I think, and the visitor aspect - the famed "million pound" (sic) pathway - very good indeed. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that this is a big loss for the zoo, and that the elephants are one of the things that make this a proper zoo in the eyes of many visitors (nerds and muggles alike). I would have much preferred to have seen them convert, or develop, so as to be able to hold bulls. But it is very easy to say this without knowing the full details.....
This is Twycross we are discussing on this thread, not SL!
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Chester Charlie
Member
Sorry I am not with you thought it was a perfectly sensible and reasonable question I cannot see what South Lakes has to do with it
With regards to exhibit space: is the elephant area under Listed Building status (I do hope not ..)? What is / was actually planned for this part of TWZ in the future master planning?
Bad would probably be over-stating a little but the indoor accommodation in particular is old and dated (a large "shed", many decades old, designed for free contact now used for PC) and, in my opinion, likely to need either massive investment or redesign/rebuilding, to remain "up to standard" over the next few years. The outdoor enclosure is nicely landscaped but not massive (and I believe some of the group don't use the grass paddock half). Additionally there's the question of whether a modern zoo should keep elephants without a bull -I'm not sure where I stand on this to be honest but the investment required would be huge.
It's a sad loss but I think I can see the logic. There's been massive improvements across the zoo over the last couple of years but there remains a core of exhibits (mainly the apes and including the elephant house) that will need serious investment to bring them up to scratch over the next few years. It's a fine financial balancing act but I think something had to go otherwise we'd be looking at a zoo that would still have some very poor exhibits (again, mainly the apes) in the five to ten year period (who wants to look like Dudley of ten years ago or have their remaining "carbunkle" orang enclosure). I suspect the accountants (damn them) may have also identified that Elephants were probably the most expensive animals to keep (heating/food/keeper costs) and additionally the management decided to cling to their "primate speciality/history".
All that said, I'd rather of them have gone out of orangs (poor housing, far worse than the elephants) and chimps too (poor housing, bad social groups, they've got Bonobos instead), if necessary, rather than the elephants. I also expect the elephants are easier to rehouse (at the moment) than the apes and this may have affected the decision.
You never know, it could be a (risky) publicity stunt (like the talk of scrapping well-loved food products) which encourages an outpouring of dismay, higher profile and visitor numbers followed by a U-turn "because we realised how loved they were". I doubt it, and would be appalled, but one can hope.
Only if they get a substantial private donation to improve the facilities I'd imagine.
Again: exhibit-wise can they easily redevelop and are there no listed building restrictions for the Ele House?
I very much doubt it has any listed building status- you've no doubt seen it and will know its a typical Twycross 'modern-style' red-brick construction/design similar to the Ape Houses. But remember over many years in the past they have specialised in saving money by renovating existing buildings for new species- old Elephants = Bonobos, old Chimps= Leopards, old Gorillas=Chimps, old tigers= Spider monkeys, old sealions= bushdogs etc. The old Giraffe house is redundant but still there doubling as a zebra house/hay store. I can't see the Elephant building being demolished, only remodelled for something else. Interesting times.
Pretty sure it isn't listed.
I can't believe this decision has been taken for cost-cutting reasons. You only have to look at the Facebook comments to see that in the business world it would be akin to sacking your best sales person because you're paying them a lot of commission. I can only assume they had two options, move them on, or take on a bull. There is no room to build a facility for a bull, hence they're left with option 1.
I also doubt the timing and low-key nature of this announcement is a coincidence. For me, it's hard to argue with anything the current management have done over their tenure so far, so I can't believe they're downplaying the possible impact, internally. The announcement comes immediately after half-term, to be followed, I hope, by positive news very soon. I can't see them letting this (perceived by many as) negative story fester for too long, their PR agency appears to be far too savvy for that.
As for future direction, the zoo has built up some real momentum over the last few years so surely they won't do anything to stifle that now, if they can help it. Masterplan press releases indicated a desire to increase visitor numbers massively over it's lifetime. Becoming even more of a 'Primate Centre' would make even remaining at current numbers pretty difficult, wouldn't it? Even with the Elephants, the diversity of the collection is a grumble for a lot of visitors. They surely have to replace them with another A-lister, or a number of non-primate species that have a combined draw, else their Masterplan has turned on it's head completely in a year or so.
Honestly, more zoos have been around this alley. If you are not prepared to hold a bull no elephant breeding group, it is as simple as that. TWZ has for very long treaded this thin line on the Asiatic elephant EEP. As for ..: is it a loss locally? Perhaps ..., surely for some a favourite zoo animal with personality. For the elephant group it is for the better. There is also such a thing as animal welfare in relation to being able to accomodate the full spectrum of behaviors, social structure and with that goes mating and giving birth and being a socially cohesive family unit.
I personally would be glad to see the back of the "red brick" Ele House (which is also true for the old great ape buildings). You do not have to agree with me, but it is the way I feel about it personally.
Generally, I think they are on the right track and I could well believe that TWZ management itself came to the same conclusion that the long term future of their Asiatic elephant herd was best secured outside the Twycross Zoo grounds. It will be interesting how they fill up the new and available space.
I personally would be glad to see the back of the "red brick" Ele House (which is also true for the old great ape buildings). You do not have to agree with me, but it is the way I feel about it personally.
Generally, I think they are on the right track and I could well believe that TWZ management itself came to the same conclusion that the long term future of their Asiatic elephant herd was best secured outside the Twycross Zoo grounds. It will be interesting how they fill up the new and available space.
I have just checked and there are no listed buildings at the zoo. This was not a surprise as I couldn't think of any buildings of historical importance or architectural merit.
I don't disagree but am doubtful the building won't be used used again in a different form.
As to the Ape houses, they are all scheduled to be replaced by the new Ape complex which would cover the existing area they (most of them) are on, so they would then have to be demolished, however the time schedule on these, apart from Chimps, still seems well into the future.
Well thought post IMO. It would be good if they outlined the plans for the area once the Elephants have gone a.s.a.p. in order to both quell the negative responses and to shed some light on what will replace them.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Well back in the bad old days of Mrs Boardman going out of Elephants was suggested as an idea to save money. In the end just the 1 left to go to Whipsnade. But if they had left the plan back then was to go into Indian Rhino, which would only require the house to be altered. As for the suggestion of getting bull elephants that would not be a good idea, as the walls of the house will not be strong enough to keep them in working in free contact.
