Again I will ask why no captive breeding programmes for HEN HARRIERS now nearing extinction within England and declining in Scotland
Hen Harriers
- Thread starter AdrianW1963
- Start date
Because they're not really suited to captivity?
Because captive-bred offspring would struggle in the wild?
Because the priority must be to eliminate persecution then allow national recolonisation?
Because captive-bred offspring would struggle in the wild?
Because the priority must be to eliminate persecution then allow national recolonisation?
Yet all the experts are stating that a Captive breeding programme is now the only way to save the species in England.
links please.
All the experts? Experts in which field? You need to provide some sources if you're making sweeping claims!
RafRafRafRaf
Member
Given that things are only really bad locally (thank you, gamekeepers*) surely the priority needs to be to improve on that problem rather than attempt to breed captive birds - which would not be from English stock because the whole problem is that there is no English stock - that have nowhere safe to be released?
*and habitat loss, not a single-issue problem, I appreciate
*and habitat loss, not a single-issue problem, I appreciate
The Hen Harrier is increasing in Wales where there is little persecution. The problem is persecution in England and Scotland. Read Inglorious by Mark Avery to understand the problem. Captive breeding is not the answer, the species can be better managed in the wild than in captivity.
I think the reason Adrian started the thread was that the day before there was an article in a UK paper about how the numbers had dropped (including in Wales).This one says Wales' population has dropped by a third since 2010, for example (or, rather, says the number of pairs has dropped by a third): Hen harrier plunges towards extinction in England - BBC News
But, yes, the answer isn't captive breeding but stopping the game-keepers shooting them.
And I'm still waiting on a response to his "all the experts" remark.
Many thanks. I had not read the news release. I have now read it and it is alarming. This is the continuing saga of persecution. I urge all interested in the subject to read Inglorious. It is a good read.
While harriers will breed in captivity, I very much doubt if collections would give it the attention needed to breed them in any numbers.
I think Adrian might be thinking in terms of a "safety population" perhaps, and is confusing different concepts? But I'm just spit-balling, as the Americans say, because he doesn't bother responding or (as in the previous thread a while back) just makes some silly retort about "so it's not worth saving any species then", it is difficult to know. I don't think he really understands what is actually involved with captive-breeding for reintroductions.
overread
Well-Known Member
I suspect its a hard battle to win when buzzards are already a highly contentious issue with some gamekeepers/farmers/rural land owners/managers/users. Other release programs of predatory birds have met similar problems with persecution and until that is overcome any re-release or population support is very hard to gain ground. If there are currently stable Welsh populations then chances are there's more gain to put resources into improving the rural working communities relationship with these kind of species.
Otherwise if you don't have the support from those communities, then all the bred individuals; all the habitat restoration; all the protective legislation etc.. is heavily diminished in impact.
Otherwise if you don't have the support from those communities, then all the bred individuals; all the habitat restoration; all the protective legislation etc.. is heavily diminished in impact.