USA Today--Vote for the best zoo in the United States
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d1am0ndback
Well-Known Member
I do believe Fort Worth will outshine Dallas after these renovations, but Dallas will not be "forgotten" since they will still have by far the better African exhibit area. Saying Fort Worth will be top five is more than a stretch, saying they will be top ten is already a stretch. Even with these renovations they will fail to fully compete with larger zoos such as San Diego, St. Louis, Bronx, Miami, Toledo, and Columbus. These renovations certainly will be very nice, but they will by no means skyrocket Fort Worth into top 5.
I do believe top 10 is possible, but unlikely. In the years following the renovations with future additions to the zoo, I do see top 10 becoming a reality, just not yet.
Also- They still house all 4 great apes
jaykkey
Active Member
The chimpanzees are off exhibit right now (I last visited about six weeks ago). Not sure on the timing or as to why; I couldn't find a keeper to give me the dirt. They are also off their website.
Fail to compete with those zoos? Ha. It's the Top 10 "BEST"...not Top 10 "BIGGEST". Do you work for the College Football Playoff committee or something? It's not like Dallas and FW are tiny institutions...400-450 species (FW has 542 per their site) vs. 600-650 species isn't that big of a difference when judging overall quality. I'm fairly confident that private funding for the Fort Worth Zoo eclipses many of the "bigger" zoos in the US.
Fail to compete with those zoos? Ha. It's the Top 10 "BEST"...not Top 10 "BIGGEST". Do you work for the College Football Playoff committee or something? It's not like Dallas and FW are tiny institutions...400-450 species (FW has 542 per their site) vs. 600-650 species isn't that big of a difference when judging overall quality. I'm fairly confident that private funding for the Fort Worth Zoo eclipses many of the "bigger" zoos in the US.
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d1am0ndback
Well-Known Member
Zoos such as Toledo, San Diego, St. Louis, and Columbus have more species, more recent exhibits, and more money. These zoos have significantly less older(Older exhibits aren't always bad, but in Fort Worth's case, they are)/low quality exhibits than Fort Worth, which would be relying on about half of the zoo to compete with these zoos.
This means these zoos have more quality, especially those like Columbus and San Diego where I failed to find an old or outdated exhibit which can be found easily in Fort Worth (Even after renovations, since they don't account for apes, raptors, Texas wild-which isn't old but feels outdated already-, and the miscellaneous exhibits). As Fort Worth renovates more, then it can compete, but with what's revealed from the master plan, that's not happening-yet.
jaykkey
Active Member
More money? More money from admissions...yes...more money provided by private donors? Nope. Heck, the $100M "Wilder Vision" updates were funded largely by the Bass family ($90M)...$10M from individual "regular" folks. To put that in perspective, you could build three "Giants of the Savannah" exhibits (Dallas) for that chunk of change.
Old and outdated exhibits nowhere to be found? Have you been to STL lately? Love the zoo...might be my favorite (great roster!)...but they have serious infrastructure issues. Ask any employee there. Miami Zoo? Seriously? Even Toledo has some wear and tear outside of the big ticket exhibits. I'm not going to defend the Texas Wild! exhibit...it is what it is. I don't think it ever felt anything other than "outdated" (side note, the videos they show in the theaters are hilariously old...like "should be shorts on MST3K" bad). But the infamous "hippo ditch", the large but bland elephant enclosure, and the 100-year old "African diorama" are all out with the new renovations...as is the "path of nothing" that connects to Texas Wild! (Forests & Jungles will be there with okapis; also, rumor is that they are going to remove some of the miscellaneous exhibits that dot that path...the former Koala enclosure, the half-ass penguin enclosure, etc). The World of Primates is not first-class anymore (it was in the early 90s)...but it still holds up to many of the other "bigger, better" zoos like Brookfield, for instance (especially the "big tree" indoor viewing). Even if they don't touch World of Primates or Texas Wild!, the new renovations with the existing MOLA will create a zoo with no major weak spots (Texas Wild! at least doesn't have a major comparison point to any other zoo). I'm not saying it will jump over SD, STL, or Omaha...but Toledo, Miami, Cleveland, Brookfield, and whomever else is on your list, I have no doubts.
FW Zoo has 542 species...Toledo has 800 with the aquarium, ZooMiami has around 500, Dallas has 400, St. Louis has 588, etc. As you can see, when you look at non-aquarium-centric species count, it's all statistically similar.
The FW Zoo is the most picked on zoo in Texas because it was the first one to appearing on these lists in the late 90s...Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, etc. all had to catch up. Their citizens hated that Fort Worth out shined their hometowns in the zoological arms race in the state. The zoo became a the "evil empire" of Texas zoos. I forgive you for this. It will be okay, I promise.
Now, I can't defend the physical size of the Fort Worth zoo...
Old and outdated exhibits nowhere to be found? Have you been to STL lately? Love the zoo...might be my favorite (great roster!)...but they have serious infrastructure issues. Ask any employee there. Miami Zoo? Seriously? Even Toledo has some wear and tear outside of the big ticket exhibits. I'm not going to defend the Texas Wild! exhibit...it is what it is. I don't think it ever felt anything other than "outdated" (side note, the videos they show in the theaters are hilariously old...like "should be shorts on MST3K" bad). But the infamous "hippo ditch", the large but bland elephant enclosure, and the 100-year old "African diorama" are all out with the new renovations...as is the "path of nothing" that connects to Texas Wild! (Forests & Jungles will be there with okapis; also, rumor is that they are going to remove some of the miscellaneous exhibits that dot that path...the former Koala enclosure, the half-ass penguin enclosure, etc). The World of Primates is not first-class anymore (it was in the early 90s)...but it still holds up to many of the other "bigger, better" zoos like Brookfield, for instance (especially the "big tree" indoor viewing). Even if they don't touch World of Primates or Texas Wild!, the new renovations with the existing MOLA will create a zoo with no major weak spots (Texas Wild! at least doesn't have a major comparison point to any other zoo). I'm not saying it will jump over SD, STL, or Omaha...but Toledo, Miami, Cleveland, Brookfield, and whomever else is on your list, I have no doubts.
FW Zoo has 542 species...Toledo has 800 with the aquarium, ZooMiami has around 500, Dallas has 400, St. Louis has 588, etc. As you can see, when you look at non-aquarium-centric species count, it's all statistically similar.
The FW Zoo is the most picked on zoo in Texas because it was the first one to appearing on these lists in the late 90s...Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, etc. all had to catch up. Their citizens hated that Fort Worth out shined their hometowns in the zoological arms race in the state. The zoo became a the "evil empire" of Texas zoos. I forgive you for this. It will be okay, I promise.
Now, I can't defend the physical size of the Fort Worth zoo...
I'm not sure you get what they are saying. I find it nice that you want to defend your hometown zoo, but perhaps you should view this from a more unbiased point of view. These plans look promising, but remember that San Diego, Saint Louis, Toledo, Brookfield etc. all have future plans as well. When Fort Worth catches up, will they be just as good? Only time will tell, and in the meantime welcome to zoochat!
Edit: And another tip, when you things like, "Do you work for the College Football Playoff committee or something?" or, "One is message board speak/hyperbole...come on, man." You come as rude or unproffesional. Theres a time for being snarky and sarcastic on here, I do it, plenty of others do it, but perhaps do it when its more appropriate. Or at least add the
face at the end.
jaykkey
Active Member
I get what they are saying...but just because my counter points don’t align with your narrative, doesn’t make them invalid. Much of this is subjective anyways. Money and species counts are not. Whether you like the site lines of a tapir exhibit is. If I wanted to rely on subjectivity in the argument, I would just cite the dumb USA Today poll because it’s more of an accurate sampling of the public then these forums.
FW isn’t my hometown zoo (it is today)...I’ve moved around a lot. I would consider Brookfield and LP just as much my “hometown zoo”. I feel that there is a major anti-FWZ bias on these boards...and it’s been like that for years...it’s the main reason that I’ve refrained from posting on here.
FW isn’t my hometown zoo (it is today)...I’ve moved around a lot. I would consider Brookfield and LP just as much my “hometown zoo”. I feel that there is a major anti-FWZ bias on these boards...and it’s been like that for years...it’s the main reason that I’ve refrained from posting on here.
Fair enough. I wouldn't exactly say there is an anti FW Zoo bias. The MOLA is praised on this site for good reason. Though if an enclosure is not up to standards, then it should be criticized, and there are a good amount of enclosures at the zoo that are just that. That doesn't make it a bad zoo though.
jaykkey
Active Member
Agree to disagree (not that it doesn’t have weak spots...just that there are a “good amount”).
I’m sure when the hippo lazy river with a 70-foot underwater viewing area debuts next year as part of the renovated African Savannah, it will be ignored and you’ll focus on the fact that the Asian elephant exhibit is the wrong shade of burnt sienna...but it’s the perfect shade at Toledo, Zoo Miami, etc.
I’m sure when the hippo lazy river with a 70-foot underwater viewing area debuts next year as part of the renovated African Savannah, it will be ignored and you’ll focus on the fact that the Asian elephant exhibit is the wrong shade of burnt sienna...but it’s the perfect shade at Toledo, Zoo Miami, etc.
?????
When did I mention anything about the shade of the Asian elephant yard? And when did I say anything about Toledo or Miami? Your making assumptions without any reason to be in the first place. 70-foot underwater viewing? Great! If they follow through with these plans and don't downsize like Dallas then that's fantastic. I'm just curious why you would think I wouldn't approve of this?
On another thread on this site a few years ago, someone posted a poll to vote for best US state for zoos. Most people voted for their own home state (California, etc). However two of the most active members on this site who have visited dozens of zoos across the country both voted for Texas, even though they don't live there. One @snowleopard lives in British Columbia and the other @Arizona Docent (yes me) lives in Arizona. Texas has a wealth of really great zoos, not just the ones mentioned above, but even in smaller cities like Caldwell and Waco. I visited them several times while preparing my book Zoos of the Southwest. I do enjoy Fort Worth Zoo (more than most on this site) but as it stands now Dallas Zoo is the best zoo in the southwest. However these future plans certainly sound intriguing and I look forward to seeing what Fort Worth can pull together.
You've been promoting the Fort Worth Zoo on ZooChat and I've found your passion for your local zoo admirable but are you talking about it being one of the Top 5 or Top 10 zoos in the country? Really? I personally think that it is only the #3 best zoo in its own state, trailing both Dallas and Houston even with an incredible Reptile House.
Looking nationwide, I'd go with San Diego, Omaha, Saint Louis, Columbus and Bronx as a top 5...with zoos like Sedgwick County, North Carolina, Denver, Miami, Dallas, Houston, Woodland Park and San Diego Zoo Safari Park making it a 'baker's dozen' of great USA zoos. Maybe Fort Worth will be a great zoo in the future, which is your declaration, but as it stands I've been to more than 300 zoos/aquariums just in the United States and I'd put Fort Worth somewhere in the #25-30 bracket. However, I'm really hoping that it becomes a truly great zoo in the future as that would give me one more reason to head south to Texas.
Awwww shucks
jaykkey
Active Member
You've been promoting the Fort Worth Zoo on ZooChat and I've found your passion for your local zoo admirable but are you talking about it being one of the Top 5 or Top 10 zoos in the country? Really? I personally think that it is only the #3 best zoo in its own state, trailing both Dallas and Houston even with an incredible Reptile House.
Looking nationwide, I'd go with San Diego, Omaha, Saint Louis, Columbus and Bronx as a top 5...with zoos like Sedgwick County, North Carolina, Denver, Miami, Dallas, Houston, Woodland Park and San Diego Zoo Safari Park making it a 'baker's dozen' of great USA zoos. Maybe Fort Worth will be a great zoo in the future, which is your declaration, but as it stands I've been to more than 300 zoos/aquariums just in the United States and I'd put Fort Worth somewhere in the #25-30 bracket. However, I'm really hoping that it becomes a truly great zoo in the future as that would give me one more reason to head south to Texas.
I’ve only been to 75 or so in the US...so you have me beat but #25-30 is so off-base, it’s hard to take you seriously . I’m sorry, I have a harder time believing that than it being Top 10. And to be clear, I’m not saying it’s on par with SD, STL, Omaha, Columbus...but Brookfield, Toledo (most overrated zoo in America, IMO), Zoo Miami, Cincy, Cleveland, and Dallas...easy. Dallas survives off the Giants exhibit (and now they have the Hippo Outpost, I guess...which will be outdone in a few months by FW’s new enclosure)...other that, it’s a poorly laid out, generic offering. It also is a much more inefficiently run business with FAR LESS funding than Fort Worth...so I’ll side with the zoo that can easily (and is) remedying their weak areas.
@jaykkey : As others have already mentioned, you certainly love your local zoo and your opinion is valid. However, below is a list that I've had kicking around for a while and I'm fairly happy with the way that it looks. Fort Worth is in the #25 spot for now, although that facility could look dramatically different in a decade. Even several British zoo enthusiasts were not that impressed when Fort Worth was extensively reviewed a few years ago in a Zoo Grapevine magazine and 4 hours is plenty of time to tour the zoo. On the positive side, I will point out that MOLA is one of the best exhibit complexes that I've ever seen and I provided an extensive review on my 2015 road trip thread. Aside from having one of the world's truly great Reptile Houses, Fort Worth is a generic American zoo with an emphasis on 'megafauna'.
Zoo rankings are mainly subjective but here would be my tentative list:
1- San Diego Zoo (2017 x 2, 2011 x 2, 2008, 2006) = 6 visits
2- Omaha’s Henry Doorly Zoo (2012, 2008) = 2 visits
3- Saint Louis Zoo (2014, 2010) = 2 visits
4- Columbus Zoo (2008)
5- Bronx Zoo (2008)
6- Sedgwick County Zoo (2010)
7- North Carolina Zoo (2010)
8- Denver Zoo (2012, 2006) = 2 visits
9- Woodland Park Zoo (2017 - 1994) = multiple visits
10- San Diego Zoo Safari Park (2017, 2011, 2006) = 3 visits
11- Zoo Miami (2008)
12- Dallas Zoo (2015, 2010) = 2 visits
13- Houston Zoo (2015, 2010) = 2 visits
14- Minnesota Zoo (2014, 2008) = 2 visits
15- Oklahoma City Zoo (2008)
16- Detroit Zoo (2008)
17- Kansas City Zoo (2010)
18- Brookfield Zoo (2008)
19- National Zoo (2008)
20- Jacksonville Zoo (2008)
21- Oregon Zoo (2016, 2011, 2010, 2008, 2007, 2005) = 6 visits
22- Phoenix Zoo (2011, 2008) = 2 visits
23- Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum (2011, 2008) = 2 visits
24- Tampa’s Lowry Park Zoo (2012)
25- Fort Worth Zoo (2015, 2008) = 2 visits
* I've included the year(s) of my visits
My personal U.S.A. total: 325 zoos/aquariums (248 zoos and 77 aquariums)
Zoo rankings are mainly subjective but here would be my tentative list:
1- San Diego Zoo (2017 x 2, 2011 x 2, 2008, 2006) = 6 visits
2- Omaha’s Henry Doorly Zoo (2012, 2008) = 2 visits
3- Saint Louis Zoo (2014, 2010) = 2 visits
4- Columbus Zoo (2008)
5- Bronx Zoo (2008)
6- Sedgwick County Zoo (2010)
7- North Carolina Zoo (2010)
8- Denver Zoo (2012, 2006) = 2 visits
9- Woodland Park Zoo (2017 - 1994) = multiple visits
10- San Diego Zoo Safari Park (2017, 2011, 2006) = 3 visits
11- Zoo Miami (2008)
12- Dallas Zoo (2015, 2010) = 2 visits
13- Houston Zoo (2015, 2010) = 2 visits
14- Minnesota Zoo (2014, 2008) = 2 visits
15- Oklahoma City Zoo (2008)
16- Detroit Zoo (2008)
17- Kansas City Zoo (2010)
18- Brookfield Zoo (2008)
19- National Zoo (2008)
20- Jacksonville Zoo (2008)
21- Oregon Zoo (2016, 2011, 2010, 2008, 2007, 2005) = 6 visits
22- Phoenix Zoo (2011, 2008) = 2 visits
23- Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum (2011, 2008) = 2 visits
24- Tampa’s Lowry Park Zoo (2012)
25- Fort Worth Zoo (2015, 2008) = 2 visits
* I've included the year(s) of my visits
My personal U.S.A. total: 325 zoos/aquariums (248 zoos and 77 aquariums)
While I do agree with some of what you're saying, there is no way that at this moment Fort Worth is a top 10 zoo in North America.
"Objective - (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts."
@snowleopard is purely sharing his opinion. Saying you can't take him serious comes off as quite rude and disrespectful. He even said his list above is subjective, so why is it that you think he's joking by sharing his simple opinion? I understand your new and all and it can take some time to get used to the site, but may I just give you a piece of advice and say that if you disagree with an opinion give a reason why.
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