Los Angeles Zoo & Botanical Gardens Activists trying to seize LA zoo elephant

Sheather

Sheather

Well-Known Member
10+ year member
This blogger explains the issue very well. If this goes through, it sets a troubling precedent and will be very damaging to the zoo, which would lose its AZA accreditation, and in the blogger's words, "This motion is likely the start of the animal rights groups pushing for all zoos to become sanctuaries and stop breeding animals for conservation."

Billy the Elephant’s life at the LA Zoo will soon be up for (public, inexpert) debate.
 
Just read through the article and WOW! This a huge deal and it sucks that LA might lose AZA accreditation. The weird part is that LA has a fairly recent enclosure, which is miles better than most Elephant exhibits in the US.

The only ok part about this is that the Lions would get moved out of their atrocious enclosure.
 
Sheather said:
This blogger explains the issue very well. If this goes through, it sets a troubling precedent and will be very damaging to the zoo, which would lose its AZA accreditation, and in the blogger's words, "This motion is likely the start of the animal rights groups pushing for all zoos to become sanctuaries and stop breeding animals for conservation."

Billy the Elephant’s life at the LA Zoo will soon be up for (public, inexpert) debate.
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This is just pure idiocy from the animal activists. If all zoos start to become sanctuaries then many species will not get the proper conservation help. Activist want to help save these animals but in a way, there only making things harder for the people who ACTUALLY work hard to give the proper care to these animals and not just post a picture, walk a mile, and scream loudly about how they are not giving the proper needs to Billy.

I hope LA zoo and the rest of the zoological community see this as an attack to slow down global conservation and not just a bunch of SJW complaining about something.
 
"The proposal is supported by: the Voices for the Animals Foundation, Humane Society of the United States, the Performing Animal Welfare Society, Last Chance for Animals and Elephant Guardians of L.A."

"HSUS CEO Wayne Pacelle has written multiple times about how he wants to see zoos cease breeding animals entirely and become sanctuaries for abused animals. He has also stated that he wants to see elephants phased out of zoos entirely, and congratulated Detroit Zoo CEO Ron Kagan on his groundbreaking decision to send his zoo’s elephants to PAWS."

What a great ally to zoos Wayne Pacelle and the HSUS have been. What would the AZA ever do without his support? /s
 
I did not read the article because, blood pressure.

I get very irritated by this type of activism. To me, zoos give many people a chance to see, experience, appreciate the world outside their city, suburb, nation. I truly believe that most mammals, especially large mammals, would already be extinct if not for zoos. Is that hyperbole? Possibly, but most people will not connect to something until they see it in person.

I also know that the vast majority of people in this nation will never be able to afford the travel to see these animals in their native habitat and if every person in the world who was interested in seeing that nature could afford it, those places would be destroyed by the foot traffic.

I am of the mindset that these captive animals are the ambassadors of their species for the betterment of their species in the wild. They should be treated well as our captive and provided for with the highest care. I fear these people will one day get there wish and zoos will start shutting down. I hope by then I am gone, because what probably follows that will be an acceleration of extinction which is already at an alarming rate.

I can say that the LA Zoo is a step or two behind in their exhibits in terms of space and overall visual appeal. Not all, but like that terrible Lion enclosure, there are issues. That doesn’t help the zoos image.

Why do I always feel the aura of elitism and virtue signaling with these type of activist. I think my humble and meager financial status as a child makes me feel like it’s people who have it to easy in life who need to do something to look good in their social circle who get really aggressive with their activism. They don’t realize most people are too busy trying to make ends meet to get so aggressive in opposition and can’t take the time to stop them from take something away. Going to the zoo was huge for my family because we could do it twice a year when they were relatively cheap. I couldn’t go to Disneyland but could do the zoo. It helped me gain an appreciation, for not only nature, but learning and education. Because of this I own a home and was able to better my station. Sad, just sad.
 
timmychompchomp said:
I did not read the article because, blood pressure.

I get very irritated by this type of activism. To me, zoos give many people a chance to see, experience, appreciate the world outside their city, suburb, nation. I truly believe that most mammals, especially large mammals, would already be extinct if not for zoos. Is that hyperbole? Possibly, but most people will not connect to something until they see it in person.

I also know that the vast majority of people in this nation will never be able to afford the travel to see these animals in their native habitat and if every person in the world who was interested in seeing that nature could afford it, those places would be destroyed by the foot traffic.

I am of the mindset that these captive animals are the ambassadors of their species for the betterment of their species in the wild. They should be treated well as our captive and provided for with the highest care. I fear these people will one day get there wish and zoos will start shutting down. I hope by then I am gone, because what probably follows that will be an acceleration of extinction which is already at an alarming rate.

I can say that the LA Zoo is a step or two behind in their exhibits in terms of space and overall visual appeal. Not all, but like that terrible Lion enclosure, there are issues. That doesn’t help the zoos image.

Why do I always feel the aura of elitism and virtue signaling with these type of activist. I think my humble and meager financial status as a child makes me feel like it’s people who have it to easy in life who need to do something to look good in their social circle who get really aggressive with their activism. They don’t realize most people are too busy trying to make ends meet to get so aggressive in opposition and can’t take the time to stop them from take something away. Going to the zoo was huge for my family because we could do it twice a year when they were relatively cheap. I couldn’t go to Disneyland but could do the zoo. It helped me gain an appreciation, for not only nature, but learning and education. Because of this I own a home and was able to better my station. Sad, just sad.
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Nothing constructive to add, but - nice post putting forward some good points!
 
I want to put aside the fact that their has been yet another attempt to pull away Billy from LA zoo grounds and send him to PAWS. As there is something in the article that I don't quite ever hearing before. The potential downfall of the Los Angeles Zoo.

If Billy is revoked, the zoos AZA accreditation is revoked. We all know that, so why I am repeating it once more? This could very much so potentially damage the Los Angles zoo incredibly bad. If Billy is removed, several other zoo star zoo animals will follow leaving not too much left over for the zoo to hang on to. This could ultimately cost the zoo thousands, no millions. This could be horrible for the entire facility. Billy is determining the fate of what will either be a zoo that will blossom with success with a new master plan on the horizon, or will crumble down to a mere shadow of what it could be.

"But Pachy, are you sure you aren't just blowing this out of proportions? The Toronto zoo had a very similar experience a few years back and their doing just fine now, so I don't see how the Los Angeles zoo would be damaged much if it at from such a scenario happening. Also you look very Handsome today."

First of all, thank you. Second of all, the Toronto zoo did have a very similar scenario, however it was for the exact opposite reason. Then there were issues about the weather, the smallish exhibit yard, the reputation of multiple animals passing within just a few years. Now, its about social behaviors (i.e does Billy need companionship), how would it affect the zoo long term, and semen collecting (The last one is a bit obligatory). Toronto's situation was pretty messy, but they at least were willing to send away their elephants, in which Los Angles does not.

Just to add one more zoo to the mix, Pittsburgh. Lets be realistic here, Pittsburgh zoo had a pretty bad year in 2017. That may have something to do with the fact that AZA revoked their accreditation because, you guessed it, they had opposing views about the elephant care. Since they lost their accreditation, the zoo opened a slapdash lawn mowed field with brick buildings reminiscent of the walls of my old elementary school for African and South American mammals. Besides that there was of course the baby elephant that was born last year, only to die just a few weeks later. While I'm sure AZA accreditation had nothing to do with the unfortunate calf, when a zoo revokes accreditation just for disagreements with elephant care, then that same zoo has a baby elephant of just a weeks die, things start to add up to the general public. Hell, the best news regarding elephants at the Pittsburgh zoo was Coolio the Elephant Seal being put on exhibit.

So what exactly am I getting at? Losing Billy could and most likely will cause the zoo to go through a stage like the one I just mentioned.

No Billy = No Lions, gorillas and other star species
No Star Species = Less visitors and a declining yearly attendance
Less Visitors = Less money
Less money = Less resources they can use to fund the master plan

Do you see my point? As ignorant as these politicians and other celebrity "advocates" are, they have a bigger voice than pretty much anyone else on the topic. So to be blunt, I'll be on the edge of my seat seeing how this all develops.

Though while I'm at it. I found this video a few years back and this is just... My lord. Its in the old elephant exhibit which was unbearably awful, but these animal rights activists try and present it in such a silly way I feel bad for laughing. Yeesh...

 
What annoys me is that these activists rarely protest for animal conservation, they never care about the real problems just the byproducts of what is being done to fix the problems. I'm sure there are good animal activists out there but the majority never care about animals in the wild. While, we should strive for better animal care, there are bigger issues out there than one elephant in one zoo in one country.

DISCLAIMER: This is just my opinion
 
The Los Angeles Times seems to be very biased against Zoos.

I saw one article posted recently called "All Zoos are Abominations".

I'm not linking it for the sake of members not getting migraines by it's stupidity.
 
Beastking04 said:
The Los Angeles Times seems to be very biased against Zoos.

I saw one article posted recently called "All Zoos are Abominations".

I'm not linking it for the sake of members not getting migraines by it's stupidity.
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By an "article" do you actually mean "a letter to the editor"?
 
Happened to be in town so I spent a better part of the day at the zoo - a decent sized crowd of 25-30 protesters had a podium and mic set up spouting the same emotional yet misleading information again.

No one could explain where Billy would go to other than PAWS - and no one had an answer as to where the $8M+ would come from if he somehow did go there. I appreciate the concerns but it was another case of being blinded by your heart and unable to see with your head.

Worse, there was a protestor who was stationed inside the zoo on the Rainforest side of the elephant enclosure harassing zoo employees and visitors alike. She had a gimmick where she would approach someone from the zoo from the side as they were fielding questions and eventually ask a leading Q to try to spring a trap on them.

It usually was something about them lying about the size of the enclosure - or accusing everyone of lying about male elephants having a more solitary lifestyle in the wild than females.

Multiple visitors asked her to stop pushing her politics on them, asking her to move on or eventually, they just got up and left. It was extremely annoying and I wish the zoo would have asked her to leave – but I got the feeling that was part of her game plan and they were aware of her intentions.

She kept on shouting over any of the zoo representatives that "she knew their script" and she wouldn't accept their misinformation. She was here to "tell the truth" to anyone who wanted to know about Billy.

Eventually she worked herself up into tears and walked away, angrily reporting back to someone on the phone.

She came back later and saddled up to a docent talking to a group in front of Billy as he was eating hay and started videotaping the whole thing for "proof of the disinformation" the zoo was spreading.
 
Oddernod said:
Happened to be in town so I spent a better part of the day at the zoo - a decent sized crowd of 25-30 protesters had a podium and mic set up spouting the same emotional yet misleading information again.

No one could explain where Billy would go to other than PAWS - and no one had an answer as to where the $8M+ would come from if he somehow did go there. I appreciate the concerns but it was another case of being blinded by your heart and unable to see with your head.

Worse, there was a protestor who was stationed inside the zoo on the Rainforest side of the elephant enclosure harassing zoo employees and visitors alike. She had a gimmick where she would approach someone from the zoo from the side as they were fielding questions and eventually ask a leading Q to try to spring a trap on them.

It usually was something about them lying about the size of the enclosure - or accusing everyone of lying about male elephants having a more solitary lifestyle in the wild than females.

Multiple visitors asked her to stop pushing her politics on them, asking her to move on or eventually, they just got up and left. It was extremely annoying and I wish the zoo would have asked her to leave – but I got the feeling that was part of her game plan and they were aware of her intentions.

She kept on shouting over any of the zoo representatives that "she knew their script" and she wouldn't accept their misinformation. She was here to "tell the truth" to anyone who wanted to know about Billy.

Eventually she worked herself up into tears and walked away, angrily reporting back to someone on the phone.

She came back later and saddled up to a docent talking to a group in front of Billy as he was eating hay and started videotaping the whole thing for "proof of the disinformation" the zoo was spreading.
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If I was at the zoo that day I think I may have exchanged some not so friendly words with that disgusting lady
 
TZDugong said:
If I was at the zoo that day I think I may have exchanged some not so friendly words with that disgusting lady
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My anger was about to boil over until I watched the docent handle it with calm and understanding. I think everyone has been coached to understand that the people protesting are looking for "Facebook" moments they can record or film to bring back to their group as proof of how right they are.

As much as it was the last thing I wanted to do, restraint seemed to be the best play at hand. Everyone around picked up on what was going down. At one point the woman countered someone from the zoo that the city could just seize Billy at any point – and the zoo rep said they wouldn't let that happen as they would lose the AZA accreditation. The woman started smiling at that comment and a random person in the crowd pointed her out, saying "lady you just don't like zoos, do you?"

He pulled his family away from her immediately and told everyone in ear shot to stop giving her the time of day.
 
Oddernod said:
My anger was about to boil over until I watched the docent handle it with calm and understanding. I think everyone has been coached to understand that the people protesting are looking for "Facebook" moments they can record or film to bring back to their group as proof of how right they are.

As much as it was the last thing I wanted to do, restraint seemed to be the best play at hand. Everyone around picked up on what was going down. At one point the woman countered someone from the zoo that the city could just seize Billy at any point – and the zoo rep said they wouldn't let that happen as they would lose the AZA accreditation. The woman started smiling at that comment and a random person in the crowd pointed her out, saying "lady you just don't like zoos, do you?"

He pulled his family away from her immediately and told everyone in ear shot to stop giving her the time of day.
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Seems like the zoo has prepared its volunteers and employees well on what to do in these situations. Major props to them. Also props to the random guest for calling her out on her bs. Although I bet the guests visiting the zoo know about Billy and have made their minds on where they stand.
 
Oddernod said:
Happened to be in town so I spent a better part of the day at the zoo - a decent sized crowd of 25-30 protesters had a podium and mic set up spouting the same emotional yet misleading information again.

No one could explain where Billy would go to other than PAWS - and no one had an answer as to where the $8M+ would come from if he somehow did go there. I appreciate the concerns but it was another case of being blinded by your heart and unable to see with your head.

Worse, there was a protestor who was stationed inside the zoo on the Rainforest side of the elephant enclosure harassing zoo employees and visitors alike. She had a gimmick where she would approach someone from the zoo from the side as they were fielding questions and eventually ask a leading Q to try to spring a trap on them.

It usually was something about them lying about the size of the enclosure - or accusing everyone of lying about male elephants having a more solitary lifestyle in the wild than females.

Multiple visitors asked her to stop pushing her politics on them, asking her to move on or eventually, they just got up and left. It was extremely annoying and I wish the zoo would have asked her to leave – but I got the feeling that was part of her game plan and they were aware of her intentions.

She kept on shouting over any of the zoo representatives that "she knew their script" and she wouldn't accept their misinformation. She was here to "tell the truth" to anyone who wanted to know about Billy.

Eventually she worked herself up into tears and walked away, angrily reporting back to someone on the phone.

She came back later and saddled up to a docent talking to a group in front of Billy as he was eating hay and started videotaping the whole thing for "proof of the disinformation" the zoo was spreading.
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I'm not US-based, but I have never come across protesters at a zoo, ever. If I were there, I would have definitely blown over and given that twat a hard time. That is absolutely revolting that someone would harass people having a pleasant day out and WORSE - insult the people who have devoted their lives to animal care, people that have endured years of study and unpaid work to get to that position, who spend more time with animals than their own human families.. People who actually get off their butts everyday and MAKE A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE to an animal's life, who actually TRY to help wildlife. Unlike revolting people like that lady, who clearly doesn't know a single thing about elephants. What she did is beyond revolting. I'm so sorry to everyone at that zoo that has to deal with psychotic trash like that.
 
Today (thursday) I visited the LA zoo for the first time in at least 2-3 years. My favorite animals are elephants, and I have already signed the petition to keep the LA zoos elephants at the zoo, and I support the LA zoo completely.


However, while I was there, I’d say for almost the entire time the three elephants who I saw (Tina, Jewel, and Billy) were head-bobbing. I was only at the zoo for a few hours (from oneish to 3:30), and I know to not judge a zoo by only one visit (especially a visit that was very short), but I was troubled by seeing the elephants display this behavior the entire time.


I wanted to see if anyone who has visited the LA zoo on a more regular basis had anything to say about this- is this rare? Do the elephants act differently at other times of day? Does the zoos other, newer elephant (who I did not see) also have this behavior? Do these animals only display this behavior because they began headbobbing before they were moved to new elephants of Asia exhibit, and now continue to exhibit the behavior on a regular basis? Any information would be helpful.
 
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