Trouble at the Zoo - documentary on South Lakes - BBC2
- Thread starter NigeW
- Start date
So I just watched this. My observations and interpretations are as follows.
The entire programme was completely factual, frank, open and honest and I feel purposely tried to remain unbiased and reserve judgement on the zoo as a whole without taking sides. I feel it was a huge risk to take to publicise things that could so openly attract criticism such as the lion death, so definitely credit where it’s due for not trying to hide anything. The one, single, only aspect that I felt was painted in a slightly negative light was David Gill’s prior management, but this was all.
I have to admit that I did find some of the staff attitudes to be a little bizarre, the whole ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ mentality really has no place in a zoo which clearly and undisputedly requires improvement. I thought the resistance to change on some parts was quite apparent, obviously current ways of working are deeply embedded and ingrained but it doesn’t take a genius to work out that that is probably the exact cause of some of the problems that the zoo has experienced so far. However, for many of these very young staff members, this is possibly their only experience of working within this kind of environment so they potentially have nothing else to compare it to and therefore don’t actually know any different, so you have to take this into account. I did think it was a bit odd for a staff member to confirm the cause of death of the lion on camera and openly admit that she had not sought permission to disclose that information from her employer prior to doing so, bit of a risk. I was also very shocked to see photographs of previous animal feeding practices that included feeding animals left over supermarket butties, which highlighted how this really has been about going right back to the very basics. I didn’t even know that any zoos engaged with supermarkets in order to source donated supplies on a regular basis, but maybe it is more common than I realised.
It was interesting to hear that Andreas felt the hand feeding should be cut back due to it having no relevance to the aims of conservation. I do think the aspiration to get back on board with EAZA is quite a way into the future, but making positive steps towards that aim is for sure a start.
Has anything further happened since in response to the contaminated meat issue? Have they sought compensation from the previous supplier? In my industry, heads would absolutely roll as a result of something like this, and very quickly, too.
I’m still not sure whether I buy the CEO, I’ll wait and see how things move from here before I make judgement. At the end of the day, the success of any organisation rises and falls upon the strength of its management.
The entire programme was completely factual, frank, open and honest and I feel purposely tried to remain unbiased and reserve judgement on the zoo as a whole without taking sides. I feel it was a huge risk to take to publicise things that could so openly attract criticism such as the lion death, so definitely credit where it’s due for not trying to hide anything. The one, single, only aspect that I felt was painted in a slightly negative light was David Gill’s prior management, but this was all.
I have to admit that I did find some of the staff attitudes to be a little bizarre, the whole ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ mentality really has no place in a zoo which clearly and undisputedly requires improvement. I thought the resistance to change on some parts was quite apparent, obviously current ways of working are deeply embedded and ingrained but it doesn’t take a genius to work out that that is probably the exact cause of some of the problems that the zoo has experienced so far. However, for many of these very young staff members, this is possibly their only experience of working within this kind of environment so they potentially have nothing else to compare it to and therefore don’t actually know any different, so you have to take this into account. I did think it was a bit odd for a staff member to confirm the cause of death of the lion on camera and openly admit that she had not sought permission to disclose that information from her employer prior to doing so, bit of a risk. I was also very shocked to see photographs of previous animal feeding practices that included feeding animals left over supermarket butties, which highlighted how this really has been about going right back to the very basics. I didn’t even know that any zoos engaged with supermarkets in order to source donated supplies on a regular basis, but maybe it is more common than I realised.
It was interesting to hear that Andreas felt the hand feeding should be cut back due to it having no relevance to the aims of conservation. I do think the aspiration to get back on board with EAZA is quite a way into the future, but making positive steps towards that aim is for sure a start.
Has anything further happened since in response to the contaminated meat issue? Have they sought compensation from the previous supplier? In my industry, heads would absolutely roll as a result of something like this, and very quickly, too.
I’m still not sure whether I buy the CEO, I’ll wait and see how things move from here before I make judgement. At the end of the day, the success of any organisation rises and falls upon the strength of its management.
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Zooreviewsuk
Well-Known Member
The reluctance to lose animals and change things, comes from within the offices, and not really the keepers. To me it's because it includes work and those in the office have always seemed quite lazy and were part of the set up under Gill.
The keeper who said about the Lion is Sarah. She is very open and will chat to anyone honestly when they go to the Zoo. She is really hard working and a really nice lass as well. She's knowledgeable and with her a spades a spade. She handles a lot of the VIP experiences and makes you feel really welcome and I often chat to her every time I go there.
The meat issue has been sorted, and it was the keepers who kept pressing the office to sort it out, as said those behind the seems need directing at all times or nothing gets done.
Andreas is like any trouble shooter, everything is facts and figures, no sentimentality. I suppose unless you want improvement and change, don't bring them in, but at the same time, don't bring them in unless you are going to take heed of their advice.
He wanted to remove the Reptiles and Tropical animals as they weren't on show and therefore waste of time and money, after much discussion, they decided a Discovery Centre and having them onshow and reopening the Tropical House and improving it, was the better way to go. He made it clear, having them off show in the staff room simply wasn't a viable option.
The keeper who said about the Lion is Sarah. She is very open and will chat to anyone honestly when they go to the Zoo. She is really hard working and a really nice lass as well. She's knowledgeable and with her a spades a spade. She handles a lot of the VIP experiences and makes you feel really welcome and I often chat to her every time I go there.
The meat issue has been sorted, and it was the keepers who kept pressing the office to sort it out, as said those behind the seems need directing at all times or nothing gets done.
Andreas is like any trouble shooter, everything is facts and figures, no sentimentality. I suppose unless you want improvement and change, don't bring them in, but at the same time, don't bring them in unless you are going to take heed of their advice.
He wanted to remove the Reptiles and Tropical animals as they weren't on show and therefore waste of time and money, after much discussion, they decided a Discovery Centre and having them onshow and reopening the Tropical House and improving it, was the better way to go. He made it clear, having them off show in the staff room simply wasn't a viable option.
I noticed this! I think certain staff members did come across as quite unprofessional, and not really having the best manner.
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I thought they were quite restrained about reporting all the past failures- this was after all the reason the Zoo found itself in this situation in the first place...
I agree with him about the hand-feeding of carnivores and other larger animals. It brings in revenue for zoos that offer these 'VIP experiences' nowadays, but its reducing the animals almost to the status of domesticated species. Seeing Jaguars(?) nibbling morsels of meat/fish from sticks- a mode of feeding presumably used just to give 'snacks' like this, does not portray them in their true light, but then I fear zoos are becoming increasingly anthropomorphic in their treatment of animals anyway. IMO hand-feeding encourages this attitude further and should be restricted to domestic species like Donkeys, sheep etc. and not exotics.
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taun
Well-Known Member
I don't have a big issue with hand feeding in itself, but does seem very regular at SL. Is this the case?
Seemed you could turn up on the day and pay for hand feeding which seems bonkers. I do have to say they did try and educate the visitors that where there when doing it.
I think done right and limited hand feeding can raise vital money for conservation projects.
Zooreviewsuk
Well-Known Member
Monday - Friday, they have one big cat hand feed a day option. It's for a max of 4 people at 3 different time slots.
The big cats don't get fed every day, so say the Tigers had a big feed 2 days before hand or the day before, they would prob be used for the hand feed that day, it's done at 11am , 1pm and 2.45pm. It's a different Big Cat each day.
Max of 4 people per time slot.
A lot of Zoo's actually say it's good for the Big Cats as it gets them used to coming into the houses, and to the bars and makes them easier to deal with, this can help when they need veterinary attention. It's not as if they are fed loads and loads of meat. You get given maybe 4/5 pieces of meat, about an inch thick and about 2 inches long.
If South Lakes sell 12 of these a day at £25 a head, that's £300, which is the same as 30 people through the gate. It also gives you a chance to see the Big Cats up close and learn more about them.
I've done the Tigers, Jaguar's, and Snow Leopards at South Lakes, it's only the Lions left for me to do, or/and the Wolves if they ever do them. I look on the board each time I go, hoping to see Lions but never has been when I've gone. For me the sessions are excellent value for money.
Yes, this is true enough - they could have been a lot more scathing.
For myself, the most positive aspect of the programme was the fact it was clear David Armitage is still very much involved in matters.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
...and, clearly, as cheerful and loquacious as ever!