Top 5 Zoos in the USA

[mweb08]

I agree with ANyhuis regarding the cost of a zoo being withheld from the rankings for the reason he gives.

And that's not just because I favor San Diego, it's always been the way I've thought of this issue.

Regardless, cost is not something that is going to be a big positive for The Bronx. Both zoos are much more expensive than the vast majority of zoos. Of course they're two of the best zoos and in two of the most expensive places to live / visit in the country.

They both do offer reasonable memberships though, which is what any of us would have if we lived nearby and what many families would have if they had interest in visiting multiple times a year.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

However, one variable that may not have been “statistically accounted for” but should probably be considered is the overall sense of momentum and progress of a zoo. San Diego and Omaha (in particular) have been juggernauts over the past decade, adding major new exhibits and features at a remarkable pace. The Bronx has not; its last major addition is now ten years old. Had it maintained the furious pace of improvement it saw from 1985 (Jungleworld) to 2003 (Tiger Mountain), this conversation would be very different.

This is definitely a criticism I can agree with and possibly the largest downside of having such a large conservation effort as well as managing 4 other parks. As mentioned before the zoo has been renovating and adding enclosures/small exhibits across the grounds as well as a lot more visitor amenities over the past few years and personally I do get a sense of overall progress. However, while this is a step in the right direction, I agree it's not the same as a major new exhibit. The zoo has discussed plans for some but we'll just have to wait and see.

I would like to propose, however, that part of this seeming lack of motivation to do something big and new might be because of the high quality of everything that they've done already. The only thing remotely close to the bear grottos or small cages at Bronx is the old Polar Bear enclosure, which will surely be converted into something better soon enough, and the indoor giraffe pens. Meanwhile, African Plains opened in 1941 and some of those original enclosures are still better than some of the hoofstock yards at other zoos. There isn't really the need to build a flashy new Africa complex or raze over entire sections of old zoo. Just a thought, I would still love to see Bronx expand themselves and hopefully they will do so with the New York Aquarium finally getting itself back on its feet again.

Having seen it in person I agree about the horrible mock rock in Africa Rocks, though the enclosures themselves seem fine for the animals overall.

~Thylo

 

[DevinL]

I think that ThylacineAlive's original point to this whole thread was to say that even though San Diego Zoo is often considered America's best zoo it still has a lot of flaws and average to poor exhibits. ThylacineAlive wanted to break down everything bit by bit to show that. The point wasn't whether or not San Diego was America's best zoo and the original post even dismissed an objective ratings system for zoos.

The way that the whole conversation has shifted from a critique of San Diego Zoo's shortcomings to a conversation about ranking zoos, the San Diego Zoo's strengths, and the Bronx Zoo's shortcomings just proves that conversations about the San Diego Zoo's weaknesses can become sidetracked. Even if it has been interesting to follow.

To be fair, I don't think that anyone who rates the San Diego Zoo as America's best zoo would consider it flawless. There seemed to be frustration from some San Diego Zoo supporters because they thought that they were being characterized that way. Some of those supporters also seemed frustrated about being asked to go into details about San Diego Zoo's weaknesses when they have discussed it elsewhere. Everyone is free to discuss things on ZooChat to whatever degree they see fit. There are no obligations.

Am I being fair with all these assumptions?

 

[Daktari JG]

Thanks to ANyhuis for his long response (though he basically only answered my question with a ...yes. haha)
Part, a big part, of the controversy of his posts is explained on who his rankings are aimed at- zoo visitors. And by that I infer casual zoo visitors. Who probably are in the very high 90% of zoo visitors. The kind that might go to Memphis to see a giant panda but not go out of their way to have seen a Sumatran rhino at Cincinnati. I would doubt there are more than a handful of casual visitors who have ever even come to this site, much less posted.
And even on a board of passionate zoo nerds- few are going to agree on
WHAT makes one zoo better than another, much less to agreeing on if one zoo is better than another, except in the most general of terms.
And that's why there can be no perfect zoo, but I enjoy the constant betterment that zoos do in the futile attempt to be.

 

[pachyderm pro]

I do believe its fair to mention, considering @mweb08 brought up cost, that a major advantage that San Diego has over Bronx is just that. They are both two very expensive places sure, but at Bronx they charge you extra for parking, Congo Gorilla Forest, Jungle World, Wild Asia Monorail and the children's zoo on top of the admission fee. At San Diego on the other hand, double decker buses and a skyride? free with admission. The Children's zoo? It may not be that great, but when the new children zoo opens in 2021 it will still come without an additional charge. Every other animal attraction in the zoo? Can be accessed without being locked behind a pay wall. Parking? Just stroll right on in and just pay for the tickets at the entrance.

I can understand the argument that Congo Gorilla Forest is superior to say, Gorilla Tropics so you get more bang for your buck, but full exhibit complexes should be free to enter with admission either way. This agreement may have been brought up already, I got lost in the middle of this thread so I really couldn't say. However, my point still stands.

 

[StoppableSan]

I do believe its fair to mention, considering @mweb08 brought up cost, that a major advantage that San Diego has over Bronx is just that. They are both two very expensive places sure, but at Bronx they charge you extra for parking, Congo Gorilla Forest, Jungle World, Wild Asia Monorail and the children's zoo on top of the admission fee. At San Diego on the other hand, double decker buses and a skyride? free with admission. The Children's zoo? It may not be that great, but when the new children zoo opens in 2021 it will still come without an additional charge. Every other animal attraction in the zoo? Can be accessed without being locked behind a pay wall. Parking? Just stroll right on in and just pay for the tickets at the entrance.

I can understand the argument that Congo Gorilla Forest is superior to say, Gorilla Tropics so you get more bang for your buck, but full exhibit complexes should be free to enter with admission either way. This agreement may have been brought up already, I got lost in the middle of this thread so I really couldn't say. However, my point still stands.

Technically, if you pay for the total experience (which includes all paid attractions such as Congo, Wild Asia, etc.) It is free to enter with admission. Plus, given the conservation programs that Bronx takes part in, you can understand and even choose where your money goes *only in Congo*.

 

[pachyderm pro]

Technically, if you pay for the total experience (which includes all paid attractions such as Congo, Wild Asia, etc.) It is free to enter with admission. Plus, given the conservation programs that Bronx takes part in, you can understand and even choose where your money goes *only in Congo*.

Fair point, but the San Diego Parks are still able to spend tens of millions of dollars in conservation without locking major exhibit complexes behind an additional fee. And even with the "total experience" your still paying extra either way.

 

[StoppableSan]

Fair point, but the San Diego Parks are still able to spend tens of millions of dollars in conservation without locking major exhibit complexes behind an additional fee. And even with the "total experience" your still paying extra either way.

The City slashed the budget of the WCS/Zoos/Aquarium a couple of years back, and the budget beforehand still didn't pay enough for animal feed, keeper salaries, conservation programs, hence the extra prices. (Personally, I think the zoos/aquarium should slash all ties with the city, with the WCS being the sole proprietor much like the Friends of the North Carolina Zoo or the Friends of the Topeka Zoo. Reason.com has a rather insightful article on privatizing zoos. I know WCS is a private entity in and of itself, but it still recieves money from the city.)

 

[mweb08]

I think a big factor in preference between these two zoos is based on how detail oriented one is when evaluating exhibits.

Some of the most detail oriented people on here harp on things at San Diego (and elsewhere) that I don't care that much about, and often times have nothing to do with animal welfare.

However, I do appreciate what an exhibit like CGF or Baboon Reserve accomplishes with the great attention to detail that clearly went into them.

I just happen to think many of San Diego's exhibits are very good to great (not reaching the level of warmer months CGF), but part of that is while I do pay attention to and appreciate the details, I just don't value them as much as some do.

So since I don't think the Bronx has as large of an advantage in regards to their top exhibits (especially when considering depth) as some others do, that allows what I perceive as San Diego's other advantages to overtake the edge The Bronx has with its top few exhibits.

But I get that people who care the most about incredibly well planned out and executed immersion exhibits would think that The Bronx is the best.

 

[m30t]

@ANyhuis thanks for taking the time to respond the large number of questions.
A couple questions remain on my part. First, and this might have been due to a poor job by myself explaining one of my objections, there is the issue of visitor experience. You note that by including a wide variety of categories you hope to incorporate all visitors in your analysis (ie fans of birds to fans of big cats). Agreed. My concern though is on how visitors evaluate their experience. To use several anecdotal examples, I visited a zoo with a family last year who lamented the fact that in several exhibits animals were making use of hiding spots in their exhibit and were thus not visible to guests. This family member felt that no such hiding places should exist to ensure that animals were always on view. On a similar note, a regular at my local zoo complained to me on multiple occasions that the snow leopard exhibit was too large, making it difficult to the find the cats. This individual told me they preferred a significantly smaller exhibit so that they could see the animals easier. I disagreed on both of these examples, primarily on the grounds of animal welfare (a stance I think most on here would side with).
But, do we have any idea what percentage of guests take such a stance, or alternatively how many guests simply want the animals in plain sight and active whenever they visit? This is notable, as influences the applicability of evaluating a zoo on "visitor experience" and which type of visitors zoos should aim to appease.

On the note of conservation, you state that even if it were included it would only represent 1 of 29 categories. Why? Could you not include separate categories for conservation initiatives in each of the areas of animals and exhibits that you have? Furthermore, could you not have categories for how well a zoo communications its conservation efforts to the public at the zoo? Since there is no objection to counting African elephants in both an elephant and African mammals category, I see no reason there cannot be double counting on the conservation side. Following that, could there not also be additional categories for education, once again perhaps education by region?
Of course you could include all of these additional categories, part of the analysis is determining which factors to include and exclude. Regardless of the justification behind such choices, it introduces a level of subjectivity that cannot be ignored.

 

[Chlidonias]

I would doubt there are more than a handful of casual visitors who have ever even come to this site, much less posted.

As of right now, there are 45 members online and 189 non-members (and 316 robots). The number of non-member browsers viewing the site at any one time is almost always significantly higher than the number of members viewing the site.

 

[Daktari JG]

As of right now, there are 45 members online and 189 non-members (and 316 robots). The number of non-member browsers viewing the site at any one time is almost always significantly higher than the number of members viewing the site.

You may be correct, but that statement does not prove me wrong.
And what does it mean about the robots exactly anyway?

 

[Coelacanth18]

I do believe its fair to mention, considering @mweb08 brought up cost, that a major advantage that San Diego has over Bronx is just that. They are both two very expensive places sure, but at Bronx they charge you extra for parking, Congo Gorilla Forest, Jungle World, Wild Asia Monorail and the children's zoo on top of the admission fee. At San Diego on the other hand, double decker buses and a skyride? free with admission. The Children's zoo? It may not be that great, but when the new children zoo opens in 2021 it will still come without an additional charge. Every other animal attraction in the zoo? Can be accessed without being locked behind a pay wall. Parking? Just stroll right on in and just pay for the tickets at the entrance.

I can understand the argument that Congo Gorilla Forest is superior to say, Gorilla Tropics so you get more bang for your buck, but full exhibit complexes should be free to enter with admission either way. This agreement may have been brought up already, I got lost in the middle of this thread so I really couldn't say. However, my point still stands.

I actually feel the opposite way about this. San Diego charges you for EVERYTHING, and the result is a $50 ticket that covers things I don't want to do, see, or use. Why should I pay for amenities I don't want? Why should I pay for exhibits I won't visit? I can see why compartmentalization of costs is obnoxious on the surface, but it can save money for people who don't want the frills and extra stuff.

And I'm just going to say this: I think $50 is too much for a zoo ticket. At that point, I don't even care what all of that money is going to.

 

[Chlidonias]

You may be correct, but that statement does not prove me wrong.
And what does it mean about the robots exactly anyway?

Robots are from things like search engines - so Google, Bing, etc. There are probably also actual robots working for Skynet searching for human weaknesses, but nobody will know that until it's too late.

 

[mweb08]

I actually feel the opposite way about this. San Diego charges you for EVERYTHING, and the result is a $50 ticket that covers things I don't want to do, see, or use. Why should I pay for amenities I don't want? Why should I pay for exhibits I won't visit? I can see why compartmentalization of costs is obnoxious on the surface, but it can save money for people who don't want the frills and extra stuff.

And I'm just going to say this: I think $50 is too much for a zoo ticket. At that point, I don't even care what all of that money is going to.

I don't disagree with that.

However, The Bronx is over $50 for one person. Plus, it's like $84 for a 2 day pass where you can either go to the zoo twice or the zoo and safari park within the same year. So that's not as outrageous. But again, the membership at The Bronx and San Diego Diego well worth it for anyone that lives near them.

Both zoos are quite expensive and it's hardly worth extensively discussing the differences imo. They both lose out in that category to tnr vast majority of zoos.

 

[nczoofan]

I don't disagree with that.

However, The Bronx is over $50 for one person. Plus, it's like $84 for a 2 day pass where you can either go to the zoo twice or the zoo and safari park within the same year. So that's not as outrageous. But again, the membership at The Bronx and San Diego Diego well worth it for anyone that lives near them.

Both zoos are quite expensive and it's hardly worth extensively discussing the differences imo. They both lose out in that category to tnr vast majority of zoos.

My family had a membership for 18 years in a row at the Bronx Zoo. Now I don't visit as much so we dropped the membership, but the price has gone up a lot in recent years. This is largely due to diminished/stagnant state and city funding. The cost of a ticket at the Bronx Zoo thats includes all exhibits though is 36.95, but people at least have the option of paying less and still having a nice variety of exhibits to visit. People can also visit on Wednesday for suggested admission, which used to be called free day and is stipulated as part of the WCS's contract with the city. So its not $50 and at least Bronx has options for a free or more affordable visit. Parking is $17 for the day, but as anyone from NYC can tell you thats relatively cheap. Most city lots charge 30-50 dollars a day, and the Met/AMNH charge much higher rates. Also the zoo has a subway stop one block south of the Asia Gate. I believe I saw a study saying 1/3rd of visitors take this option. Also their are a variety of buses to the zoo.

So the Bronx Zoo ain't cheap, but their are options to reduce the cost. Visiting on Wednesday and riding the Subway allows you to see 80% of the zoos species for little to no cost. Visiting any other day or during the winter, means you don't pay the full admission price. So Bronx has options, but what does San Diego have? A static $50+ price.

Just to be clear. Basic admission gets you these exhibits:

• World of Reptiles
• World of Birds
• Madagascar
• Zoo Center (Komodo Dragon and White Rhino)
• Mouse House
• African Plains and Carter Giraffe Building
• Himalayan Highlands
• Aquatic Bird House and Seabird Aviary
• Brown Bears
• Tiger Mountain
• Gelada's and Ibex
• Pheasantry
• Sea Lion Pool

Between those thats more species and diversity than are held at the vast majority of zoos.

 

[mweb08]

My family had a membership for 18 years in a row at the Bronx Zoo. Now I don't visit as much so we dropped the membership, but the price has gone up a lot in recent years. This is largely due to diminished/stagnant state and city funding. The cost of a ticket at the Bronx Zoo thats includes all exhibits though is 36.95, but people at least have the option of paying less and still having a nice variety of exhibits to visit. People can also visit on Wednesday for suggested admission, which used to be called free day and is stipulated as part of the WCS's contract with the city. So its not $50 and at least Bronx has options for a free or more affordable visit. Parking is $17 for the day, but as anyone from NYC can tell you thats relatively cheap. Most city lots charge 30-50 dollars a day, and the Met/AMNH charge much higher rates. Also the zoo has a subway stop one block south of the Asia Gate. I believe I saw a study saying 1/3rd of visitors take this option. Also their are a variety of buses to the zoo.

So the Bronx Zoo ain't cheap, but their are options to reduce the cost. Visiting on Wednesday and riding the Subway allows you to see 80% of the zoos species for little to no cost. Visiting any other day or during the winter, means you don't pay the full admission price. So Bronx has options, but what does San Diego have? A static $50+ price.

Sure, you can skip some of the exhibits, but if someone just takes the base ticket, suddenly The Bronx isn't even in this discussion on terms of its quality for that visit.

Yes, you can take the sub. That could make sense depending on where you're coming from and how many people are in your party.

Lastly on The Bronx, the free day is only free if you don't park or do the ticketed exhibits, so go back to my first comment. In addition, I of course get going on a free day if it's hard to afford going otherwise, but I'd never go to a popular attraction on a free day where heavy crowds greatly impact the experience.

As for San Diego, as I mentioned, there are options. Like I said, you can do the 2 day combo with either a second day at the zoo or a day at the safari park. Between that and the membership options, there are more reasonable options.

But again, they're both expensive, much more so than the vast majority of establishments. So even if one thinks cost should be considered in what is the best zoo, and I don't, it shouldn't be that much of a contentious issue between these two zoos, and they get slaughtered in this category by most other zoos.

 

[nczoofan]

Sure, you can skip some of the exhibits, but if someone just takes the base ticket, suddenly The Bronx isn't even in this discussion on terms of its quality for that visit.

Yes, you can take the sub. That could make sense depending on where you're coming from and how many people are in your party.

Lastly on The Bronx, the free day is only free if you don't park or do the ticketed exhibits, so go back to my first comment. In addition, I of course get going on a free day if it's hard to afford going otherwise, but I'd never go to a popular attraction on a free day where heavy crowds greatly impact the experience.

As for San Diego, as I mentioned, there are options. Like I said, you can do the 2 day combo with either a second day at the zoo or a day at the safari park. Between that and the membership options, there are more reasonable options.

But again, they're both expensive, much more so than the vast majority of establishments. So even if one thinks cost should be considered in what is the best zoo, and I don't, it shouldn't be that much of a contentious issue between these two zoos, and they get slaughtered in this category by most other zoos.

I fully disagree and you failed to explain the $50 number you cited earlier. Yes their both expensive if you want to do everything. But the Bronx Zoo as a cultural resource of the city makes it possible for the 2 million lower income New Yorkers go to the zoo. Also the majority of Bronx Zoo visitors come from within the cities 5 boroughs and NYC has the lowest rate of car ownership in the US. So yes a lot of visitors take the subway to the Bronx Zoo, maybe not a lot of zoo-chatters though. And while you may not use the free-day, zoos are not solely their for US zoochatters. We are the ones already on-board with natural history, conservation issues and biodiversity. It is their so that those who are lower income and already less likely to feel a connection to nature, are able to have the same experience as rich people who can easily go. Do I go on free day? No I do not. But I am proud that the zoo has this, as free days or suggested admission has become increasingly rare in recent years.

Maybe some of the best exhibits are not avaliable. Yet World of Birds, Madagascar, Ethiopian Highlands, Himalayan Highlands, Tiger Mountain and the Zoo Center all have very high quality exhibits. So the exhibit quality seen under the lower priced options may not include Congo or Jungleworld, yet the exhibit quality is still extremely high. And includes probably 90% of the zoos birds and reptiles. As well as a majority of the zoos mammal collection. In regards to ABC animals one cannot see without a full experience admission, that list is rather low Elephants (who the zoo is phasing out), Indian rhinos (you can see White rhinos in zoo center), Tiger (who can be seen in 2 exhibits in Tiger Mountain), and Gorilla (who are the big loss, but sometimes can be seen from the free viewing point).

The only way to make San Diego cheaper for the day, is to spend more on a bundle overall. The Bronx zoo has lower priced ways to visit as I already listed. The membership plan is rather null though, as both zoos have memberships, that get you into more than 1 zoo. But full admission at Bronx Zoo is $17 less than at San Diego, so they are no equal. Parking may be charged but in the US the average family size is 4, so that means parking tacks on about $4.00 to each persons admission if they drive (which as I said is low for anywhere in NYC).

 

[ThylacineAlive]

The Total Experience ticket is the general admission and it's $36 according to @nczoofan (I thought it was $30, but I have a membership so haven't paid the admission in a while). The zoo also offers basic admission for like $22 that doesn't include all the extra exhibits, which are only $6 a piece (and as mentioned all of that money goes straight to conservation when visiting CGF). On Wednesdays the zoo is also free, at which point a ticket into all the extra admission exhibits is $15. Parking is also $16. Very expensive I agree, but not outrageously or even significantly different from SDZ.

~Thylo

 

[nczoofan]

One other note is that the San Diego Zoo is in San Diego County, which is one of the less fortunate counties in California. Average income is 22,000 dollars a year per person; compared to NYC at 64,000 dollars a year per person. Obviously the cost of living is higher in NYC, yet then you would expect the Bronx Zoo to be more costly, yet it is not. So I simply would pose the question, how does the San Diego Zoo attempt to be a resource to those who live in the county? Or do they simply focus towards tourists?