Dudley Zoological Gardens Dudley Zoological Gardens in 2018
- Thread starter Benosaurus
- Start date
After reading the artical on the recent escape and sad passing of the snow leopard I wonder how many times will these tradigies happen before zoos come in line with other industries and public health and safety. Espically in the nanny state we seam to live in in the uk where health and safety comes first, second and third. Most of the zoos i have visited seam to have upgraded garden gates often timber framed with simple hasp and clasp lock and padlock system the only diffrance from there to my gate is I don’t have a tiger behind mine. I work in industry and to get into any machinery that can cause halm to people ie robots etc require dead lock systems, as in one key fits all and you can not remove that key till the last door is locked or isolated. The system is not expensive by comparison to an animal or keepers life, if they would install a double door system to enclosures and runs from night quarters to enclosures then this would ensure one door at least is always locked. Thus preventing escapes or in the case of Hamilton last year death to the keeper. You could buy these locks fora few hundred quid for each enclosure to any dangerous animal ie carnivores and large mammals, they are called fortress lock if anybody in high places is reading, and would pay for them selves in a decrease of your insurance premiums. And before any starts about zoos are charities and can’t afford it think of the million pound exhibits they are building a few grand would cover most places for this.
That's why I wouldn't be the best person to do an insurance jobIn that case it's a shame concrete doesn't burn...
I didn't intend to comment on this sad business, but I think I ought to make a couple of points. Firstly the suggestion of an insurance scam is ridiculous. Livestock is usually given a completely nominal value on zoos' accounts and I'm not sure whether Dudley actually owned the animal, as many specimens of endangered species are held in zoos on breeding loan. I am sure that Dudley are reviewing their procedures and the security of their enclosures and may well make modifications before their next zoo inspection (if they haven't already done so). I do agree that failsafe systems are important, but human error can defeat the most sophisticated system: although we can't be sure what went wrong when the keeper was killed at Hamerton until the inquest is held next year.
I would also add that comments about fires in giraffe houses are not very amusing in the area round Paignton.
I would also add that comments about fires in giraffe houses are not very amusing in the area round Paignton.
I wouldn't say they are particularly amusing anywhere, but your wording would tend to suggest there's a particular incident I have not heard about; as such I'd be interested to hear the backstory to your comment.
Surely you know that Paignton's giraffe house burnt down killing several giraffes around 12 years ago?
I didn't, as a matter of fact!
This is what comes of having only been actively visiting zoos for 9 years or so, I suppose.
I would like to know why the head keeper and the member of staff haven’t been sacked as what happened was a total neglect of duty and could have been more serious (even though the death of the snow leopard is serious).
There should be nothing short of dismissal for both anything else would be a sham.
the zoo have refused to comment on this matter why?
There should be nothing short of dismissal for both anything else would be a sham.
the zoo have refused to comment on this matter why?
It did not burn down. still in use today. Giraffe(s) that died did so from smoke inhalation.
OK, but several giraffes died as a result of the fire so does that matter really? The giraffe deaths were the point of GL's comment
Two seem to have died in the fire itself (see the first linked article below) and the third died afterwards from the effects of smoke inhalation (second link).
BBC NEWS | UK | England | Devon | Two giraffes killed in zoo fire
BBC NEWS | UK | England | Devon | Third giraffe dies after zoo fire
Human error can't defeat this system of one key for all locks it's simple really you can't remove the key to open a door with out it being locked so providing entrance to enclosures or night houses have two doors only one could be opened at a time thus one would always be locked. In the case of Hamilton and many other keeper in enclosure incidents you simply wouldn't be able to get in the enclosure with this system with out locking the doors to night enclosures hence the keeper would only need to see the animal in question was actually inside making it fail safe. If you could see the safety systems in place over machinery in the industrial sector preventing accidents, these are for predictable machines yet the potential leathal animals with natural killing instinct have a single gate and padlock ? And human error simply can't beat this system it's designed to prevent this granted humans could find a way round duplicate key ect but that's not error that's a different game all together.
Zooreviewsuk
Well-Known Member
Why ?
The person made a mistake and suspect are devastated as I'm sure they loved the animal. I'm not saying there shouldn't be an investigation and the members of staff reprimanded with a formal warning and possibly be under assessment for a set period, but to sack someone for a mistake in my opinion would be very harsh.
I am really surprised that there’s a system in place where forgetting to shut a door is a thing. There should be double doors on animals this dangerous and some sort of buddy system where the doors are checked together.
My friend has a Serval which is a much less dangerous animal and they couldn’t get a DWA without a double door system. No idea how it can fly in large cats like this.
My friend has a Serval which is a much less dangerous animal and they couldn’t get a DWA without a double door system. No idea how it can fly in large cats like this.
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
For human error to beat this system all that would need to happen is for a keeper to think they had seen the animal, or animals, in the indoor exhibit but be mistaken. Or that they have other reason to believe they are inside so they don't even bother to check
Not that I don't think your suggestion is a good one of course. It would clearly seem to be an improvement.
Human error can potentially defeat any system. There have been one or two incidents during my lifetime when nuclear strikes have nearly been initiated because of apparently trivial errors, fortunately without disastrous consequences, in spite of all the precautions that were built into the systems. You can never be certain that every possible circumstance has been foreseen: never underestimate the human capacity for error.
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
Until we know exactly what happened calling for anyone's dismissal is premature. You don't know exactly what happened so how can you possibly suggest who to blame?
In any case the escape of the animal is a serious problem, but it seems that the moment Dudley knew he was outside they acted quickly and professionally to make sure the situation didn't get any worse. Furthermore, clearly they have done a good job to keep that information private for a month while they investigated internally. The statement released yesterday also seems to be upfront and honest. Frankly the handling of the incident seems to have all anyone could hope for.
Also, the zoo has commented on the incident, that's what the statement is.
We had this discussion on the site after the lion escape at Planckendael. As I said above, there's no pointing commenting further until we have more details, but if there was a serious error of judgement made, which clearly could have resulted in the loss of human life, then I think dismissal would at least be on the table.
I think this is a bit of a naive pov to be honest. Of course there needs to be a full review on the individuals in question - and also the safeguards / processes / equipment in place - but if it does come down to someone making a mistake then that does not in any way preclude it being a sackable situation. I'm not saying that is what I would do - but it definitely would not be off the table.
Keeping a dangerous animal contained is very very basic husbandry and has potentially extreme consequences if you get it wrong. If you can't be trusted to carry out the basics of the role then that is clearly a big problem.