How many subspecies of Canis lupus have you seen?

ThylacineAlive said:
None of you have seen genuine arctos or tundrarum, the entire captive population as far as I know are highly hybridized with domestic dog and other subspecies ala white tiger. Hybrids retain the white coloration so retaining purity was never a priority for zoos back in the day. There are possibly some pure animals in Canadian zoos, but I don't know who, if anyone, has them.

To my knowledge, the only currently recognized extant subspecies of Canis lupus in North America are baileyi, occidentalis, and arctos which makes a lot more sense over the extreme over-splitting of subspecies that has been historically very common in North American mammals. Regardless of taxonomy, the Yellowstone animals are occidentalis with nubilus having gone Extinct.

Personally I have thus far seen Eurasian Wolf (C. l. lupus), Iberian Wolf (C. l. signatus), Mexican Wolf (C. l. baileyi), and Mackenzie Valley Wolf (C. l. occidentalis). I have also obviously seen C. (l.) rufus, C. (l.) familiaris, C. l./d. dingo, and C. l./d. hallstromi, but I split them all.

~Thylo
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I know the red wolf is it's own species, and I've heard that the dingo and New Guinea singing dog should probably not be within Canis lupus, but why do you consider the domestic dog it's own species? I've never heard any modern authority consider it as such.
 
My personal list would be as following:
- Eurasian Wolf (Canis lupus lupus)
- Domestic Dog (Canis lupus f. familiaris)
- Hudson Bay Wolf (Canis lupus hudsonicus)
- Mackenzie Valley Wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis)
- Iberian Wolf (Canis lupus signatus)

With Dingo and Red Wolf as honorable mentions, depending on wherever you rank them taxonomically.
 
Althrough Wolves have never been of special intrest to me, I just discovered that I didn't so bad conserning the number of subspecies I've seen. Next to Domestic dog ( loads of different breeds seen ), Dingo and New Guinea singing dog I have seen sofar :
- C. l. nubilus
- C. l. hudsonicus
- C. l. signatus
- C. l. occidentalis
- C. l, pallipes
- C. l. communis
- C. l. albus
- C l. lupus
 
ThylacineAlive said:
None of you have seen genuine arctos or tundrarum, the entire captive population as far as I know are highly hybridized with domestic dog and other subspecies ala white tiger. Hybrids retain the white coloration so retaining purity was never a priority for zoos back in the day. There are possibly some pure animals in Canadian zoos, but I don't know who, if anyone, has them.
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Anyone who visited Duisburg or Wuppertal in the early 2000s has a decent chance of having seen genuine hudsonicus however, as these each held a single pure animal during the decade in question.
 
TeaLovingDave said:
Anyone who visited Duisburg or Wuppertal in the early 2000s has a decent chance of having seen genuine hudsonicus however, as these each held a single pure animal during the decade in question.
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Thats exactly where I saw it ( Duisburg early 2000s ) :).
 
- C. l. nubilus at Antwerp
- C. l. occidentalis at Metelen
- C. l. communis at Krefeld
and - C. l. albus also at Krefeld
( during the 1970s, and 1980s )
 
TeaLovingDave said:
Anyone who visited Duisburg or Wuppertal in the early 2000s has a decent chance of having seen genuine hudsonicus however, as these each held a single pure animal during the decade in question.
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Well yes, indeed. Duisburg's wolf also came from Toronto's old pack so anyone who saw those animals will have seen pure hudsonicus as well, but I was specifically referring to any animals @birdsandbats and @Hipporex thought they saw :p Still trying to work out what Toronto has now.

~Thylo
 
Hipporex said:
I know the red wolf is it's own species, and I've heard that the dingo and New Guinea singing dog should probably not be within Canis lupus, but why do you consider the domestic dog it's own species? I've never heard any modern authority consider it as such.
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I've seen dogs split many times, though I'm not sure which authority split them. I've seen most domestics elevated to species status at various times.

~Thylo
 
When I visited California Wolf Center a few years ago, they said all North American wolves are one subspecies with the possible exception of Mexican wolves and Arctic wolves. I would tend to think of the island forms in British Columbia as distinct as well. Whatever their status (I am NOT trying to start a debate on the topic), here is my list:

Domestic dog (C.l. familiaris) - many places

Mongolian wolf (C.l. chanco) - San Diego Zoo (no longer there), Zoo Zurich

Mexican wolf (C.l. baileyi) - Phoenix Zoo, Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum, Heritage Park Zoo, Houston Zoo (no longer there), El Paso Zoo, Albuquerque Biopark Zoo, Living Desert State Park, The Living Desert, California Wolf Center

Iberian wolf (C.l. signatus) - Howlett's Animal Park, Port Lympne Animal Park (no longer there), ZooBotanico Jerez

North American timber wolf (C.l. occidentalis) - Yellowstone National Park (wild), California Wolf Center

European wolf (C.l. lupus) - Highland Wildlife Park, Langenberg Wildlife Park

Arctic wolf (hybrid? C.l. arctos) - Tiergarten Schonbrunn

And if you count it, New Guinea singing dog - San Diego Safari Park (ambassador animal), Wildlife World Zoo
 
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All right so here is my list :

Domestic dog / Dingo (C.l. familiaris) - many places

Mongolian wolf (C.l. chanco) - Zoo Zürich

Mexican wolf (C.l. baileyi) - San Francisco Zoo (I believe they were lister as Mexican, corrrect me if I'm wrong)

Iberian wolf (C.l. signatus) - Tierpark Berlin, Zoo de Vincennes...

North American timber wolf (C.l. occidentalis) - Touroparc, Zoo de Mulhouse, Pairi Daiza

European wolf (C.l. lupus) - Pairi Daiza, Prague Zoo

Arctic wolf (hybrid? C.l. arctos) - Zoo Berlin

Tundra wolf (C.l. lupus) - I was really young but still, Les Loups du Gévaudan
 
Tundra wolf (C. l. albus) Sóstó
Alaskan arctic wolf (tundrarum) Budapest, Kecskemét, Schönbrunn
Dingo (dingo) Sóstó
European wolf (lupus) Szeged, Miskolc
Domestic dog (familiaris) many places
 
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