ZSL London Zoo Reviving ZSL London/Whipsnade

StoppableSan

StoppableSan

Well-Known Member
5+ year member
I have several ideas in mind for rejuvenating London as a collection and as a Zoo. Please feel free to criticize, suggest, etc. In terms of backlogged infrastructure, I would undergo a capital campaign as well as a 1/4 quid sales tax to renovate the Mappins as well as the Aquarium heavily to meet some level of structural integrity. The Aquarium could start off with freshwater and riverine ecosystems, working its way to a dark gallery highlighting the plights of pollution and climate change before reaching the finale of a Phillipines Coral Reef. As soon as the exit/entrance is reached, there could be an underwater viewing for polar bears, in a new environment replicating a steep shingle storm beach/tundra environment. Nearby could be smaller pocket exhibits for arctic fox, Norwegian lemming, snowy owl, etc. The Mappins themselves could be heavily restructured to feature more realistic geology, and the Mappin Terrace can be lightly renovated to cater to larger crowds looking out at the Tundra ecosystem. The Reptile House could be ever-so-slightly modernized with newer graphics and rarer species, such as the Haitian galliwasp and the Vulcan Island Galapagos tortoise. Tiger Territory stays as is, the Casson's exterior gets completely covered with Clematis armandii and other tropical stimulator vines. The former bearded pig yard gets transitioned to babirusa, anoa share their space with maleo and other endemic birds to Sulawesi, and the interior of the Casson gets razed to become state-of-the-art holding for the following current/potential species. Animal Adventure stays as is, the Lubetkin Penguin Pool becomes a splash park with pewter sculptures of penguins, inca terns and grey gulls. Land of the Lions gets slightly modified, with striped hyenas being placed in one of the lion yards (possibly on rotation...?), dwarf mongoose being replaced with Indian mongoose, any other unique endemic species to the Gir are welcome. B.U.G.S. stays as is, In With the Monkeys sees the addition of sloths, brocket deer, etc. Blackburn Pavilion gets a heavy planting akin to Woodland Park's Tropical Rainforest, even a greenwall. Hummingbirds are brought back in spades, and maybe some non-avian species can be added (emperor tamarin?). Aviaries are maintained, some of the lawns can be converted into exhibits, etc. Gorilla Kingdom sees a mature elm/oak transplanted into the Island, and gorillas also having access to a netted yard where they have usable space rather than just a pretty garden. Bamboo species are also added heavily, and the mock-tree near the edge of the island gets severely razed and remodeled akin to Bronx' model. (Maybe a renaming to Gorilla Glade?). Penguin Beach stays as is, maybe a side aviary with grey gulls and guanay cormorants. (PART 1)
 
(PART 2) Into Africa... Pygmy hippos get an underwater viewing area, and also see several chestnut trees added in order to provide an outside canopy. Giraffes get maintained (only generic species), while springbok get added. Okapi remain, albeit with an enhanced, more immersive yard (more bamboo). Wild Dogs get maintained (or maybe bringing in cheetahs?), warthogs and RRHs get maintained. North Bank Aviaries get turned into a North American/African migratory bird aviary, with side exhibits for invasive species (domestic cats, wild boar, etc.) Snowden ditches the modernist look it goes for, maintains Colobus alongside other African bird species. Clore Rainforest gets enhanced with greenwall and birds like troupial and oropendola, Clore Night receives cacomistle, sand cats, other nocturnal cat species (maybe even clouded leopards?). Happy Families gets devoted mainly to small, social animals (reindeer get shelved off to Whipsnade in order to accommodate for another rare species).
 
I've often thought that an exhibit similar to the former Evolution House at Kew would make an excellent zoo building if the Kew combination of live plants, models, and fossils was extended to include live animal exhibits. So: flatten the Mappins and build a large new evolution-themed complex focused chiefly on inverts, herps, fish, and botanicals but also featuring various other significant small taxa such as Echidnas, Tupaia, Kiwis and Hoatzin if available, and so on.

At Whipsnade, baby steps at first: inject new blood into practically all the free roaming and Passage Through Asia species, replace the domestic Yak, Bactrians, and Reindeer with their wild cousins, use the now-vacant American Bison enclosure for a less commonly seen N. American hoofstock taxon such as Bighorn Sheep, reopen the much-missed Discovery Centre. Ultimately, look towards replacing the oversized children's zoo, undersized bird garden, pointless sealion house etcetera with a great big set of Burgers-style tropical and temperate houses. Perhaps extend the railway too so that it can provide more of the site with a decent transport network which keeps cars out of as much of the zoo as possible.
 
Given the total disregard to real-life restrictions (chiefly financial issues and protected building status) this thread really belongs in fantasy zoos.

Jennings said:
So: flatten the Mappins and build a large new evolution-themed complex
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Good luck with that (for the reasons highlighted above).

Jennings said:
At Whipsnade, baby steps at first: inject new blood into practically all the free roaming and Passage Through Asia species, replace the domestic Yak, Bactrians, and Reindeer with their wild cousins
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Wild Yak, near impossible, Wild Bactrian Camels, completely impossible.
 
Listed status is a bit of a movable feast in London though. None of the three Mayors have had much regard for it when listed buildings have stood in the way of glamorous projects; look at what happened to the Baltic Exchange. Anyhow, failing demolition and assuming restoration then the entire structure would benefit from a unifying theme and it is worth pointing out that nowadays planners like new additions to historic buildings to really look new, hence for example the conservatory thing on the side of Wymondham Abbey, so a modern extension to the current Terraces would also not be out of the question.

As to Camelus ferus, a UK-founded captive breeding programme is under way in Mongolia so in the longer term a British ex-situ programme is not outwith the bounds of possibility: Breeding Programme
 
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Wyman said:
Gorilla Kingdom sees a mature elm/oak transplanted into the Island, and gorillas also having access to a netted yard where they have usable space rather than just a pretty garden. Bamboo species are also added heavily, and the mock-tree near the edge of the island gets severely razed...
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I like your ideas for improvements to Gorilla Kingdom. I never understood why they didn't plant a whole lot of bamboo and a few more(hotwired) trees for shade originally. If bamboo is allowed to establish it becomes dense and the gorillas won't damage it unduly while nothing gives a better 'jungle' feel. A covered yard area near the house might also encourage more overall outdoor use also.
 
I think there is a question to be raised here: practically, given the listed status of the structure and the costs involved what could ZSL do about the Mappins?
 
Jennings said:
inject new blood into practically all the free roaming and Passage Through Asia species
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I would certainly second that, I doubt the Swamp deer for example(originally from Woburn Abbey) have had any unrelated animals added since the creation of the herd. Same probably for species like the hog deer and sika, while the blackbuck are still only single sex.
 
BillEel said:
I think there is a question to be raised here: practically, given the listed status of the structure and the costs involved what could ZSL do about the Mappins?
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To my mind there are there options: leave them to rot; apply for permission to demolish (which would necessitate demonstrating that they are beyond repair - as with the Saltersgate Inn - or that - as with the Baltic Exchange - any proposed replacement is sufficiently 'sexy' to warrant demolition); seek to renovate. The latter would require a significant cash injection from somewhere and, again, in order to warrant that there would need to be a genuine grand vision for the structure (HLF applications for example need much use of the word 'unique') which given current trends in planning could include major modern additions. Put another way, you could in crude terms either replace them with a massive greenhouse or put a massive greenhouse over the top of them.
 
Jennings said:
Listed status is a bit of a movable feast in London though.
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Fair point, but it's not like ZSL's really pushed the issue (as far as I know, happy to be corrected). It feels more like they're happy to stand behind listed status as justification for inertia. Personally, I'd be happy to volunteer with a sledgehammer for the Casson (maybe London are missing a trick, sponsored demolition:)).

Jennings said:
As to Camelus ferus, a UK-founded captive breeding programme is under way in Mongolia so in the longer term a British ex-situ programme is not outwith the bounds of possibility: Breeding Programme
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Now, that's interesting (but still feels a very long way from Camelus Ferus in captivity in the UK).
 
Jennings said:
To my mind there are there options: leave them to rot; apply for permission to demolish (which would necessitate demonstrating that they are beyond repair - as with the Saltersgate Inn - or that - as with the Baltic Exchange - any proposed replacement is sufficiently 'sexy' to warrant demolition); seek to renovate. The latter would require a significant cash injection from somewhere and, again, in order to warrant that there would need to be a genuine grand vision for the structure (HLF applications for example need much use of the word 'unique') which given current trends in planning could include major modern additions. Put another way, you could in crude terms either replace them with a massive greenhouse or put a massive greenhouse over the top of them.
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I know this is controversial, and plenty might disagree, but unless they can get the finance to renovate them completely to modern standards, with a reasonable level of future proofing, they may as well demolish them. Piecemeal attempts at patching the terraces up have proved ineffectual and got us to where we are now (you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear).
 
Wyman said:
I have several ideas in mind for rejuvenating London as a collection and as a Zoo. Please feel free to criticize, suggest, etc. In terms of backlogged infrastructure, I would undergo a capital campaign as well as a 1/4 quid sales tax to renovate the Mappins as well as the Aquarium heavily to meet some level of structural integrity. The Aquarium could start off with freshwater and riverine ecosystems, working its way to a dark gallery highlighting the plights of pollution and climate change before reaching the finale of a Phillipines Coral Reef. As soon as the exit/entrance is reached, there could be an underwater viewing for polar bears, in a new environment replicating a steep shingle storm beach/tundra environment. Nearby could be smaller pocket exhibits for arctic fox, Norwegian lemming, snowy owl, etc. The Mappins themselves could be heavily restructured to feature more realistic geology, and the Mappin Terrace can be lightly renovated to cater to larger crowds looking out at the Tundra ecosystem. The Reptile House could be ever-so-slightly modernized with newer graphics and rarer species, such as the Haitian galliwasp and the Vulcan Island Galapagos tortoise. Tiger Territory stays as is, the Casson's exterior gets completely covered with Clematis armandii and other tropical stimulator vines. The former bearded pig yard gets transitioned to babirusa, anoa share their space with maleo and other endemic birds to Sulawesi, and the interior of the Casson gets razed to become state-of-the-art holding for the following current/potential species. Animal Adventure stays as is, the Lubetkin Penguin Pool becomes a splash park with pewter sculptures of penguins, inca terns and grey gulls. Land of the Lions gets slightly modified, with striped hyenas being placed in one of the lion yards (possibly on rotation...?), dwarf mongoose being replaced with Indian mongoose, any other unique endemic species to the Gir are welcome. B.U.G.S. stays as is, In With the Monkeys sees the addition of sloths, brocket deer, etc. Blackburn Pavilion gets a heavy planting akin to Woodland Park's Tropical Rainforest, even a greenwall. Hummingbirds are brought back in spades, and maybe some non-avian species can be added (emperor tamarin?). Aviaries are maintained, some of the lawns can be converted into exhibits, etc. Gorilla Kingdom sees a mature elm/oak transplanted into the Island, and gorillas also having access to a netted yard where they have usable space rather than just a pretty garden. Bamboo species are also added heavily, and the mock-tree near the edge of the island gets severely razed and remodeled akin to Bronx' model. (Maybe a renaming to Gorilla Glade?). Penguin Beach stays as is, maybe a side aviary with grey gulls and guanay cormorants. (PART 1)
Click to expand...
Not a good idea to put tamarins with birds!
 
Wyman said:
I have several ideas in mind for rejuvenating London as a collection and as a Zoo. Please feel free to criticize, suggest, etc. In terms of backlogged infrastructure, I would undergo a capital campaign as well as a 1/4 quid sales tax to renovate the Mappins as well as the Aquarium heavily to meet some level of structural integrity. The Aquarium could start off with freshwater and riverine ecosystems, working its way to a dark gallery highlighting the plights of pollution and climate change before reaching the finale of a Phillipines Coral Reef. As soon as the exit/entrance is reached, there could be an underwater viewing for polar bears, in a new environment replicating a steep shingle storm beach/tundra environment. Nearby could be smaller pocket exhibits for arctic fox, Norwegian lemming, snowy owl, etc. The Mappins themselves could be heavily restructured to feature more realistic geology, and the Mappin Terrace can be lightly renovated to cater to larger crowds looking out at the Tundra ecosystem. The Reptile House could be ever-so-slightly modernized with newer graphics and rarer species, such as the Haitian galliwasp and the Vulcan Island Galapagos tortoise. Tiger Territory stays as is, the Casson's exterior gets completely covered with Clematis armandii and other tropical stimulator vines. The former bearded pig yard gets transitioned to babirusa, anoa share their space with maleo and other endemic birds to Sulawesi, and the interior of the Casson gets razed to become state-of-the-art holding for the following current/potential species. Animal Adventure stays as is, the Lubetkin Penguin Pool becomes a splash park with pewter sculptures of penguins, inca terns and grey gulls. Land of the Lions gets slightly modified, with striped hyenas being placed in one of the lion yards (possibly on rotation...?), dwarf mongoose being replaced with Indian mongoose, any other unique endemic species to the Gir are welcome. B.U.G.S. stays as is, In With the Monkeys sees the addition of sloths, brocket deer, etc. Blackburn Pavilion gets a heavy planting akin to Woodland Park's Tropical Rainforest, even a greenwall. Hummingbirds are brought back in spades, and maybe some non-avian species can be added (emperor tamarin?). Aviaries are maintained, some of the lawns can be converted into exhibits, etc. Gorilla Kingdom sees a mature elm/oak transplanted into the Island, and gorillas also having access to a netted yard where they have usable space rather than just a pretty garden. Bamboo species are also added heavily, and the mock-tree near the edge of the island gets severely razed and remodeled akin to Bronx' model. (Maybe a renaming to Gorilla Glade?). Penguin Beach stays as is, maybe a side aviary with grey gulls and guanay cormorants. (PART 1)
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Indian Mongose illegal in UK
 
Personally I would like to see London go down the route of Jersey and concentrate their collection on species they are working with on their in-situ programs, both current and historic. They are not able to maintain large herds of big species, but could selectively keep a few charismatic species. Revamp the aquarium due to the historical and conservation importance (and I appreciate this would be horrendously expensive). Sort the Mappins out with something more impressive for the exhibit - maybe looking again at bears. The listed buildings are an issue, but apart from the penguin pool can still be utilised with imagination to house exhibits. I know my answers are simplistic but their seems to be a fundamental lack of imagination at London, coupled with a disturbing exodus of species. It is the 'national' UK collection, but these days the collection is a bit samey.
 
My first and only visit to London Zoo was in 2013 I was happy to see species that I had never seen before. I think that it has been a mistake to invest so much money on Tiger Territory and Land of the Lions as both species have encroached on the space used by other species and both whilst glamorous are mainly asleep.

What I thought that London did well was the areas like the reptile house, Clore and Blackburn Pavillon. It seems to me that London would be better investing several Million into multiple exhibits rather than one big development.

I’m glad I visited the Zoo when I did because it doesn’t lure me back into going again.
 
redstarsmith said:
What I thought that London did well was the areas like the reptile house, Clore and Blackburn Pavillon. It seems to me that London would be better investing several Million into multiple exhibits rather than one big development.
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Two of which - the reptile house and Blackburn - have been significantly depopulated since 2013.....
 
Having visited London yesterday, it struck me that London have very few animals that make much impact with the public - partly because of the nature of their chosen species and partly because they aren't displayed particularly well. I absolutely agree with redstarsmith's point about the lions and tiger: all four lions were lying together in one corner of their large and complex enclosure, I'm sure some vsitors missed them completely, while the tiger was easy to see on a high platform, but fast asleep. The giraffes are easy to see, but they didn't do much. The zebras didn't do much either, but they were harder to see over the moat and through a fence. The pymy hippos were two shiny brown backs in their indoor pools. I got a fleeting glimpse of an okapi and a pretty restricted view of some of the gorillas, but I didn't see the tapir, hunting dogs, warthogs or otters at all. The old bearded pigs were doing a bit of digging, but I think they were the only active large animals on my visit. Perhaps I was unlucky, but perhaps not.
At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, in the old days at London you could rely on animals like bears, chimps, elephants and sea lions to actually be doing something when you visited. I am not suggesting that ZSL should bring back all of those species, or even any of them, but they ought to make sure that people can see some of the animals they want to see and to have something they can remember seeing after their visit.
I like Penguin Beach. I like B.U.G.S. I think they work well for those smaller creatures. Wouldn't it be nice to see something of the same appeal for a larger mammal :)
 
redstarsmith said:
My first and only visit to London Zoo was in 2013 I was happy to see species that I had never seen before. I think that it has been a mistake to invest so much money on Tiger Territory and Land of the Lions as both species have encroached on the space used by other species and both whilst glamorous are mainly asleep.

What I thought that London did well was the areas like the reptile house, Clore and Blackburn Pavillon. It seems to me that London would be better investing several Million into multiple exhibits rather than one big development.

I’m glad I visited the Zoo when I did because it doesn’t lure me back into going again.
Click to expand...
I first visited the zoo just over 20 years ago (my first UK zoo) and was amazed at the range of species held. I know that even in the 90s the zoo was no longer at it's peak, but the decline since then has been all too apparent on subsequent visits. I have not seen the new tiger or lion enclosures, but a measure of my lack of enthusiasm for London Zoo is the fact that on a recent family trip to the capital we didn't bother to visit. I just feel that it has lost it's unique selling point.
 
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