sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
I can no longer take you, nor Tim May, seriously
...
I’ll take that as friendly rib-jabbing rather than a gratuitous insult!
Snowleopard's 2019 Road Trip: Netherlands, Belgium, France & Germany
- Thread starter snowleopard
- Start date
I’ll take that as friendly rib-jabbing rather than a gratuitous insult!
nicholas
Well-Known Member
Lowland tapirs can also be dangerous. On one occation one of my keepers lost a chunk of his thigh to a very tame individual. It turned out later that he (the tapir, not the keeper) had an ear infection.
That said, I find tapirs more relaxing to work side by side with then horses, and the biggest problem with tapirs is that they lay down to have their bellies scratched at the slightest touch. Quite inconvinient if you find yourself behind them with a wheel barrow in a narrow corridor.
DAY 25: Wednesday, August 7th (1 zoo)
Zoo/Aquarium # 79: Tiergarten Hagenbeck (Hamburg, DE)
My 500th zoo of all-time. Wow. When I was a kid, I was given a Tierpark Hagenbeck guidebook, and I idolized that little guidebook and still have it on a couple of bookshelves with 500 other zoo books. I was obsessed with zoos at a very young age, and now my 4 kids sometimes pull out ‘dad’s big bucket of animals’ as I have more than 800 toy zoo animals of all different shapes and sizes that I’ve had since I was a child. I’d make elaborate zoos in my bedroom, using a variety of enclosure designs (no immersion back then!) and I’d draw detailed maps and post them on the wall. My love of zoos and that Hagenbeck guidebook, even though it is written entirely in German, made me realize that if I played my cards right then I could have the famous Hamburg zoo as #500. My 400th zoo was the unknown Critchlow Alligator Sanctuary in Michigan, a place that practically no one has ever visited or even heard of. I told my wife that for #500 it was going to be…well, I said that I’d let the chips fall where they may, and I’d take even a small Sea Life Aquarium. However, after realizing that @vogelcommando and I finished off Beekse Bergen in 3 hours, because neither of us wanted to get involved with the nation’s largest traffic jam, I started thinking about #500 in my head while we went around 5 more small Dutch zoos. (See, doing the 3-hour walking tour and no extra ‘rides’ at Beekse Bergen was a smart move). I knew then and there that I had 4 more zoos coming up on the Sunday (Overloon, De Paay, Aquazoo Leerdam, Ouwehands), then Apenheul and Hardwerwijk on the Monday, and Burgers’ Zoo on the Tuesday. That meant I’d then be at my 499th zoo, and so I plotted only 4 days in advance that I could add on Tierpark Hagenbeck and it would be #500 all-time. What a brilliant idea!
Walking into Tierpark Hagenbeck and spending some time in Hamburg, because I actually went to a shopping mall (present for my wife as zoo giftshops just weren’t cutting it!), I was conscious of the fact that the word ‘zoo’ or even ‘tierpark’ is hardly anywhere to be seen in the city. There was a big, floor-to-ceiling sign for ‘Hagenbeck’ at the mall, and just the one word and a photo of lots of animals. I wonder if some tourists see the word Hagenbeck and scratch their heads? Of course, Carl Hagenbeck is synonymous with the birthplace of the modern zoo, as he founded his Tierpark in 1907 in the suburb of Stellingen, which has long since been swallowed up by the urban sprawl of Hamburg. Open-top, moated enclosures were revolutionary back in 1907, with Tierpark Hagenbeck probably the most appropriate choice for zoo #500 that I could possibly have ever imagined.
Walking through the zoo, there are vestiges of the glory days of Hagenbeck as a zoo visit there is like stepping back in time. There is a mock-rock Polar Bear exhibit that probably isn’t any bigger than what the bears had more than a century ago. There’s a Baboon ‘Blob’ of cement that is also frozen in time. There are keepers in with the elephants and at one point I saw a single keeper in with 6 Asian Elephants at once in the big barn. It seems incredibly dangerous and yet it’s been going on for more than 110 years at Tierpark Hagenbeck. The elephants have keepers in their paddock seemingly all day long, as the pachyderms put two feet right on the edge of their moat and visitors feed them food that is promoted at the zoo…in fact there is a full-sized stall selling food just before one arrives at the elephants. There is the famous African panorama that still looks great, but that means the African Lions are resigned to their fate in what is surely Europe’s smallest lion exhibit, with tiny cages as indoor housing to boot. The historic Bird House probably has barely been altered in decades. The big mountain with Barbary Sheep and Himalayan Tahr is still there, locked in time and in truth still an excellent part of the zoo. The Tropen-Aquarium is still as regal as ever, and at a cost of 14 extra Euros it is treated as a separate attraction and yet still on the zoo’s grounds. I swear that someone could wake up from a 50-year sleep and pop into Tierpark Hagenbeck and not notice many changes…extraordinary. (On a side note, I count the zoo and aquarium as a single attraction, and I don’t ‘double-dip’ my all-time zoo total)
Is this one of Europe’s top zoos? No way. Is this zoo a vital stop on any European jaunt? Absolutely! I enjoyed my visit and one spectacular highlight is the Eismeer complex. The Polar Bear exhibit is borderline awful, especially when in a relatively obscure Belgian zoo (Safari Parc Monde Sauvage) and a relatively obscure Dutch Zoo (Dierenrijk) have Polar Bears romping around on large meadows. If those two mid-sized zoos can pull off modern Polar Bear enclosures with natural substrate and half-acre grassy yards, then why would Hagenbeck build a brand-new Polar Bear exhibit and make it similar to how it was more than 100 years ago? It’s rather perplexing. Apart from the bear disaster, which is alleviated by giving them a fine pool with underwater viewing, the rest of Eismeer is fabulous. There is a spacious exhibit for a trio of Pacific Walruses, then another Pacific Walrus exhibit (for a huge male) together with South American Fur Seals, and then a third Pacific Walrus exhibit for a mother and a calf. It’s easy enough to walk back and forth between the pools, watching fur seals and 6 walruses strut their stuff. Then there is a deceptively large exhibit for Humboldt Penguins, an ultra-chilly walk-through (with open-topped glass enclosures like Calgary and Saint Louis) for King and Gentoo Penguins, and finally a walk-through Seabird Aviary with the following 7 species: Atlantic Puffin, Common Guillemot, Black Guillemot, Razorbill, Harlequin Duck, Long-tailed Duck and King Eider. Overall, the Eismeer complex is both an homage to the past and a nod to the future and it is head-and-shoulders above anything else on offer at Hagenbeck.
Upon entering the zoo, I went directly to the Eismeer and took a lot of photos and had the entire complex pretty much to myself. (Thanks to @lintworm for the advice!) Then the rain came yet again on this trip, with the usual wacky Euro weather, and in truth the world of ice and snow that is replicated by the Eismeer suddenly became even more immersive. Penguins looked up to the sky, fur seals grunted amidst the downpour, and the sight of Pacific Walruses in the rain was almost like the perfect recreation of a frigid, Arctic setting. I didn’t have my umbrella with me and so I had to make a mad dash back to the front of the zoo. Unfortunately, a great deal of zoo visitors had the same idea as me and we all tumbled into the Tropen-Aquarium.
The Tropen-Aquarium has a very poor Ring-tailed Lemur/Rainbow Lorikeet exhibit as the very first thing that visitors see, and it’s a walk-through and immediately there is an immense traffic jam as people congregate around the leaping lemurs. There are then a series of open-topped reptile enclosures that are all looked down into, before a winding route that includes an American-style mineshaft with vivariums set into the walls, to a few invertebrate terrariums, to an overlook of the amazing Nile Crocodile pool that well and truly dominates the building, to a second level with yet more reptiles and amphibians. The aquatic section doesn’t have very wide pathways and it can get squishy in the ‘Tropical Aquarium’ on a rainy morning, but by the end visitors will have seen a mammoth shark tank that is well worth the trip, as well as the crocodile pool that contains 4 Nile Crocodiles.
Tropen-Aquarium species list (excluding fish and approximately 10 free-flying bird species): 47 species - Ring-tailed Lemur, Rock Hyrax, Dwarf Mongoose, Short-tailed Fruit Bat, Nile Crocodile, Reticulated Python, Green Tree Python, Jungle Carpet Python, Garden Tree Boa, King Cobra, Green Mamba, Western Diamondback Rattlesnake, Arizona Mountain Kingsnake, Gila Monster, Mexican Beaded Lizard, Kimberley Rock Monitor, Bobtail Lizard, Henkel’s Leaf-tailed Gecko, Giant Girdled Lizard, Oman Spiny-tailed Lizard, Panther Chameleon, Roughtail Rock Agama, Gidgee Skink, Monkey-tailed Skink, Chuckwalla, Green Keel-bellied Lizard, Sailfin Lizard, Common Basilisk, Chinese Water Dragon, Caiman Lizard, Chinese Crocodile Lizard, Matamata, Eastern Snake-necked Turtle, Red-bellied Short-necked Turtle, Yellow-banded Poison Frog, Golden Poison Frog, Blue Poison Frog, Variable Poison Frog, Vietnamese Mossy Frog, Colorado River Toad, Kaiser’s Spotted Newt, Manticora Tiger Beetle, Leaf-cutter Ant, Madagascar Hissing Cockroach, African Millipede, Chilean Tarantula and Tailless Whip Scorpion.
Besides the excellent Eismeer and the enjoyable Tropen-Aquarium, I also really liked the huge mountain with Barbary Sheep and Himalayan Tahr (together with Red Pandas). Walking up the vertiginous slope and looking out from the top at the sights around the zoo was a terrific moment and one of extreme historical importance as that view has been around for 112 years. Once beyond those areas, Hagenbeck is a modestly-interesting German zoo that doesn’t have a lot else that could be deemed memorable years from now. The American Bison house and general area with its Native American totem poles and ‘adornments’ is almost casually an example of blatant cultural appropriation, but that part of the zoo is at least semi-engaging. There’s a Thai temple, a big Sumatran Orangutan/Small-clawed Otter dome that is entirely enclosed but in actual fact it almost feels as if the orangutans are outside due to the high prevalence of natural light that seeps in from the dome. It’s probably the world’s best all-indoor orangutan exhibit, if that makes any sense.
The historic Bird House is nothing fancy, with a line of perhaps 5 aviaries on both the outside and indoors. Here is the species list (19 species): Van der Decken’s Hornbill, White-headed Mousebird, Lily Trotter, Red-billed Oxpecker, Brown-breasted Barbet, Red and Orange Barbet, Violet-backed Starling, Hildebrandt’s Starling, Paradise Whydah, Taveta Golden Weaver, Speckled-front Weaver, Sun Conure, Broad-winged White-eye, Cape Canary, Three-banded Plover, Kittlitz’s Sand Plover, Blue-capped Cordon-bleu, Chestnut-headed Sparrow Lark and Black Crake.
Tierpark Hagenbeck has a few excellent, stand-out exhibits, and with some really pretty lawns and lakes in the center of the zoo, but also a series of boring and dull areas. The rarities for a Canadian zoo enthusiast (Giant Otter, Kamchatka Brown Bear, Vietnamese Sika Deer) are displayed in adequate exhibits that aren’t necessarily great. Looking at the zoo map, and following the clearly numbered path, there is a big, dull section in the middle of the zoo, especially for someone having toured so many zoos in such a short period of time. At Hagenbeck, visitors go, at one point, from a garden, to macaws, ducks, pelicans, guinea pigs, kangaroos, budgies, lorikeets, then the Art Nouveau Gate (I was bitterly disappointed to find that entire historic structure closed down and completely wrapped up), the bears, more kangaroos, swans, and then a whole ‘petting zoo’ area. Then there a whole bunch of other bird species and some tapirs, with people standing around smoking and watching a keeper presentation. That middle chunk of Tierpark Hagenbeck isn’t something to set the heart racing. However, I was there to stand in a place of history, where the ‘modern zoo’ was founded, and that in itself was worthy enough to be #500.
Zoo/Aquarium # 79: Tiergarten Hagenbeck (Hamburg, DE)
My 500th zoo of all-time. Wow. When I was a kid, I was given a Tierpark Hagenbeck guidebook, and I idolized that little guidebook and still have it on a couple of bookshelves with 500 other zoo books. I was obsessed with zoos at a very young age, and now my 4 kids sometimes pull out ‘dad’s big bucket of animals’ as I have more than 800 toy zoo animals of all different shapes and sizes that I’ve had since I was a child. I’d make elaborate zoos in my bedroom, using a variety of enclosure designs (no immersion back then!) and I’d draw detailed maps and post them on the wall. My love of zoos and that Hagenbeck guidebook, even though it is written entirely in German, made me realize that if I played my cards right then I could have the famous Hamburg zoo as #500. My 400th zoo was the unknown Critchlow Alligator Sanctuary in Michigan, a place that practically no one has ever visited or even heard of. I told my wife that for #500 it was going to be…well, I said that I’d let the chips fall where they may, and I’d take even a small Sea Life Aquarium. However, after realizing that @vogelcommando and I finished off Beekse Bergen in 3 hours, because neither of us wanted to get involved with the nation’s largest traffic jam, I started thinking about #500 in my head while we went around 5 more small Dutch zoos. (See, doing the 3-hour walking tour and no extra ‘rides’ at Beekse Bergen was a smart move). I knew then and there that I had 4 more zoos coming up on the Sunday (Overloon, De Paay, Aquazoo Leerdam, Ouwehands), then Apenheul and Hardwerwijk on the Monday, and Burgers’ Zoo on the Tuesday. That meant I’d then be at my 499th zoo, and so I plotted only 4 days in advance that I could add on Tierpark Hagenbeck and it would be #500 all-time. What a brilliant idea!
Walking into Tierpark Hagenbeck and spending some time in Hamburg, because I actually went to a shopping mall (present for my wife as zoo giftshops just weren’t cutting it!), I was conscious of the fact that the word ‘zoo’ or even ‘tierpark’ is hardly anywhere to be seen in the city. There was a big, floor-to-ceiling sign for ‘Hagenbeck’ at the mall, and just the one word and a photo of lots of animals. I wonder if some tourists see the word Hagenbeck and scratch their heads? Of course, Carl Hagenbeck is synonymous with the birthplace of the modern zoo, as he founded his Tierpark in 1907 in the suburb of Stellingen, which has long since been swallowed up by the urban sprawl of Hamburg. Open-top, moated enclosures were revolutionary back in 1907, with Tierpark Hagenbeck probably the most appropriate choice for zoo #500 that I could possibly have ever imagined.
Walking through the zoo, there are vestiges of the glory days of Hagenbeck as a zoo visit there is like stepping back in time. There is a mock-rock Polar Bear exhibit that probably isn’t any bigger than what the bears had more than a century ago. There’s a Baboon ‘Blob’ of cement that is also frozen in time. There are keepers in with the elephants and at one point I saw a single keeper in with 6 Asian Elephants at once in the big barn. It seems incredibly dangerous and yet it’s been going on for more than 110 years at Tierpark Hagenbeck. The elephants have keepers in their paddock seemingly all day long, as the pachyderms put two feet right on the edge of their moat and visitors feed them food that is promoted at the zoo…in fact there is a full-sized stall selling food just before one arrives at the elephants. There is the famous African panorama that still looks great, but that means the African Lions are resigned to their fate in what is surely Europe’s smallest lion exhibit, with tiny cages as indoor housing to boot. The historic Bird House probably has barely been altered in decades. The big mountain with Barbary Sheep and Himalayan Tahr is still there, locked in time and in truth still an excellent part of the zoo. The Tropen-Aquarium is still as regal as ever, and at a cost of 14 extra Euros it is treated as a separate attraction and yet still on the zoo’s grounds. I swear that someone could wake up from a 50-year sleep and pop into Tierpark Hagenbeck and not notice many changes…extraordinary. (On a side note, I count the zoo and aquarium as a single attraction, and I don’t ‘double-dip’ my all-time zoo total)
Is this one of Europe’s top zoos? No way. Is this zoo a vital stop on any European jaunt? Absolutely! I enjoyed my visit and one spectacular highlight is the Eismeer complex. The Polar Bear exhibit is borderline awful, especially when in a relatively obscure Belgian zoo (Safari Parc Monde Sauvage) and a relatively obscure Dutch Zoo (Dierenrijk) have Polar Bears romping around on large meadows. If those two mid-sized zoos can pull off modern Polar Bear enclosures with natural substrate and half-acre grassy yards, then why would Hagenbeck build a brand-new Polar Bear exhibit and make it similar to how it was more than 100 years ago? It’s rather perplexing. Apart from the bear disaster, which is alleviated by giving them a fine pool with underwater viewing, the rest of Eismeer is fabulous. There is a spacious exhibit for a trio of Pacific Walruses, then another Pacific Walrus exhibit (for a huge male) together with South American Fur Seals, and then a third Pacific Walrus exhibit for a mother and a calf. It’s easy enough to walk back and forth between the pools, watching fur seals and 6 walruses strut their stuff. Then there is a deceptively large exhibit for Humboldt Penguins, an ultra-chilly walk-through (with open-topped glass enclosures like Calgary and Saint Louis) for King and Gentoo Penguins, and finally a walk-through Seabird Aviary with the following 7 species: Atlantic Puffin, Common Guillemot, Black Guillemot, Razorbill, Harlequin Duck, Long-tailed Duck and King Eider. Overall, the Eismeer complex is both an homage to the past and a nod to the future and it is head-and-shoulders above anything else on offer at Hagenbeck.
Upon entering the zoo, I went directly to the Eismeer and took a lot of photos and had the entire complex pretty much to myself. (Thanks to @lintworm for the advice!) Then the rain came yet again on this trip, with the usual wacky Euro weather, and in truth the world of ice and snow that is replicated by the Eismeer suddenly became even more immersive. Penguins looked up to the sky, fur seals grunted amidst the downpour, and the sight of Pacific Walruses in the rain was almost like the perfect recreation of a frigid, Arctic setting. I didn’t have my umbrella with me and so I had to make a mad dash back to the front of the zoo. Unfortunately, a great deal of zoo visitors had the same idea as me and we all tumbled into the Tropen-Aquarium.
The Tropen-Aquarium has a very poor Ring-tailed Lemur/Rainbow Lorikeet exhibit as the very first thing that visitors see, and it’s a walk-through and immediately there is an immense traffic jam as people congregate around the leaping lemurs. There are then a series of open-topped reptile enclosures that are all looked down into, before a winding route that includes an American-style mineshaft with vivariums set into the walls, to a few invertebrate terrariums, to an overlook of the amazing Nile Crocodile pool that well and truly dominates the building, to a second level with yet more reptiles and amphibians. The aquatic section doesn’t have very wide pathways and it can get squishy in the ‘Tropical Aquarium’ on a rainy morning, but by the end visitors will have seen a mammoth shark tank that is well worth the trip, as well as the crocodile pool that contains 4 Nile Crocodiles.
Tropen-Aquarium species list (excluding fish and approximately 10 free-flying bird species): 47 species - Ring-tailed Lemur, Rock Hyrax, Dwarf Mongoose, Short-tailed Fruit Bat, Nile Crocodile, Reticulated Python, Green Tree Python, Jungle Carpet Python, Garden Tree Boa, King Cobra, Green Mamba, Western Diamondback Rattlesnake, Arizona Mountain Kingsnake, Gila Monster, Mexican Beaded Lizard, Kimberley Rock Monitor, Bobtail Lizard, Henkel’s Leaf-tailed Gecko, Giant Girdled Lizard, Oman Spiny-tailed Lizard, Panther Chameleon, Roughtail Rock Agama, Gidgee Skink, Monkey-tailed Skink, Chuckwalla, Green Keel-bellied Lizard, Sailfin Lizard, Common Basilisk, Chinese Water Dragon, Caiman Lizard, Chinese Crocodile Lizard, Matamata, Eastern Snake-necked Turtle, Red-bellied Short-necked Turtle, Yellow-banded Poison Frog, Golden Poison Frog, Blue Poison Frog, Variable Poison Frog, Vietnamese Mossy Frog, Colorado River Toad, Kaiser’s Spotted Newt, Manticora Tiger Beetle, Leaf-cutter Ant, Madagascar Hissing Cockroach, African Millipede, Chilean Tarantula and Tailless Whip Scorpion.
Besides the excellent Eismeer and the enjoyable Tropen-Aquarium, I also really liked the huge mountain with Barbary Sheep and Himalayan Tahr (together with Red Pandas). Walking up the vertiginous slope and looking out from the top at the sights around the zoo was a terrific moment and one of extreme historical importance as that view has been around for 112 years. Once beyond those areas, Hagenbeck is a modestly-interesting German zoo that doesn’t have a lot else that could be deemed memorable years from now. The American Bison house and general area with its Native American totem poles and ‘adornments’ is almost casually an example of blatant cultural appropriation, but that part of the zoo is at least semi-engaging. There’s a Thai temple, a big Sumatran Orangutan/Small-clawed Otter dome that is entirely enclosed but in actual fact it almost feels as if the orangutans are outside due to the high prevalence of natural light that seeps in from the dome. It’s probably the world’s best all-indoor orangutan exhibit, if that makes any sense.
The historic Bird House is nothing fancy, with a line of perhaps 5 aviaries on both the outside and indoors. Here is the species list (19 species): Van der Decken’s Hornbill, White-headed Mousebird, Lily Trotter, Red-billed Oxpecker, Brown-breasted Barbet, Red and Orange Barbet, Violet-backed Starling, Hildebrandt’s Starling, Paradise Whydah, Taveta Golden Weaver, Speckled-front Weaver, Sun Conure, Broad-winged White-eye, Cape Canary, Three-banded Plover, Kittlitz’s Sand Plover, Blue-capped Cordon-bleu, Chestnut-headed Sparrow Lark and Black Crake.
Tierpark Hagenbeck has a few excellent, stand-out exhibits, and with some really pretty lawns and lakes in the center of the zoo, but also a series of boring and dull areas. The rarities for a Canadian zoo enthusiast (Giant Otter, Kamchatka Brown Bear, Vietnamese Sika Deer) are displayed in adequate exhibits that aren’t necessarily great. Looking at the zoo map, and following the clearly numbered path, there is a big, dull section in the middle of the zoo, especially for someone having toured so many zoos in such a short period of time. At Hagenbeck, visitors go, at one point, from a garden, to macaws, ducks, pelicans, guinea pigs, kangaroos, budgies, lorikeets, then the Art Nouveau Gate (I was bitterly disappointed to find that entire historic structure closed down and completely wrapped up), the bears, more kangaroos, swans, and then a whole ‘petting zoo’ area. Then there a whole bunch of other bird species and some tapirs, with people standing around smoking and watching a keeper presentation. That middle chunk of Tierpark Hagenbeck isn’t something to set the heart racing. However, I was there to stand in a place of history, where the ‘modern zoo’ was founded, and that in itself was worthy enough to be #500.
That is an excellent choice for number 500 and makes the milestone extra special. As you know I chose Tiergarten Schonbrunn (first public zoo) for my number 100. I even had a pre-printed sign saying zoo number 100 that I held up in front of the zoo entrance for a portrait (a nice young couple walking by obliged to click the shutter on my tripod-mounted camera). In my case, it is extremely unlikely that I will ever reach 200, since my interest in zoos is waning (as you know). However, in your case, you will have to think about how you can top this milestone when you reach number 1,000!
Well, actually, the dome can be partly turned and opened during warm weather, turning the indoor into a outdoor enclosure.
Hagenbeck is actually one of only two zoos left in Europe keeping (and breeding) this species.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the free-ranging maras / Reeve's muntjacs or the large venomous snake enclosures.
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Possibly the best and most succinct summary of the place
it's not great at ALL, but it's very important from a historical point of view.Unless the signage has improved drastically, you were better off ignoring the provided lists of free-flying birds in any case
when I visited in 2016 there were numerous species still labelled which had been absent for many years.Pity - no idea what's gone on there, as it was still visible when I visited.
@Batto That is interesting in regards to the orangutan exhibit at Hagenbeck, and it's also nice to know about the Red-billed Oxpecker at the same zoo. I did notice the other items that you made mention of, and I had some close-up viewing of free-ranging Maras all over the place, but a zoo review cannot necessarily include everything as it would simply be too long.
@Arizona Docent Well, I do know that Jonas Livet is at 1,400 zoos (even though he counts a few farm-type places) and so I'll never come close to catching that guy. This will likely be my last annual summer zoo-fest for 3 years...until 2022. That's the tentative plan, anyway!
@TeaLovingDave Yes, I often find that aquarium tanks and free-flying bird signs are woefully outdated in zoos and it's pretty much a waste of time making detailed lists of the inhabitants. I'll keep sticking to my reptiles, amphibians and invertebrates.
@Tim May You like all of the old, historically vital European zoos. Amsterdam, Antwerp, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Berlin, Cologne, Vienna, Prague, etc. I've now toured some of them and I can understand the appeal as I loved the ones that I saw on this trip. However, I did find that each of the older zoos had a higher proportion of badly outdated exhibits in comparison to a place like Gelsenkirchen...but that is only to be expected due to the age of the establishments. I was wondering what zoos you've seen outside of Europe...have you made it to any American zoos of historical importance? There's not very many, but Bronx, Toledo and Saint Louis have some beautiful animal buildings that date from the 1930s and they are still in use today.
@Arizona Docent Well, I do know that Jonas Livet is at 1,400 zoos (even though he counts a few farm-type places) and so I'll never come close to catching that guy. This will likely be my last annual summer zoo-fest for 3 years...until 2022. That's the tentative plan, anyway!
@TeaLovingDave Yes, I often find that aquarium tanks and free-flying bird signs are woefully outdated in zoos and it's pretty much a waste of time making detailed lists of the inhabitants. I'll keep sticking to my reptiles, amphibians and invertebrates.
@Tim May You like all of the old, historically vital European zoos. Amsterdam, Antwerp, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Berlin, Cologne, Vienna, Prague, etc. I've now toured some of them and I can understand the appeal as I loved the ones that I saw on this trip. However, I did find that each of the older zoos had a higher proportion of badly outdated exhibits in comparison to a place like Gelsenkirchen...but that is only to be expected due to the age of the establishments. I was wondering what zoos you've seen outside of Europe...have you made it to any American zoos of historical importance? There's not very many, but Bronx, Toledo and Saint Louis have some beautiful animal buildings that date from the 1930s and they are still in use today.
No worries; I was just surprised that you did not jump at the chance to realize your previous threat and kick an innocent mara...
And since you appreciate venomous snakes, I thought Hagenbeck's presentation of them would catch your eye.
For a rather unconventional value of the term "a few"
By and large I find most free-flying bird signs aren't actually all that bad - and it's always fun trying to see what one can spot! Hagenbeck is a definite outlier in this regard.
Prague is most certainly an exception in my opinion, for what it is worth
Over the last forty years, I've visited most of the major European zoos many times and, yes, I do like zoos with a rich history. (You've recently visited a number of small, fairly obscure European animal collections that I've never seen and probably never will.)
I have been to the USA six times (New York, Chicago, California, Florida...) although, sadly, it is many years since I last crossed the Atlantic. The Bronx is definitely my favourite American zoo and, hopefully, I'll return to New York next year where I'll spend most of my time zoo visiting although I'll also reserve a day for the American Museum of Natural History which is definitely my favourite museum.
Congratulations with your 500th zoo snowleopard and I think Hagenbeck was a real good choice !
I've been there already several times ( my first visit was 1986 when the Tropen-aquarium as it is now-a-days still wasn't there but a small aquarium - terrarium buiding in the zoo - where you however also had to pay an extra entance-ticket ! ). If you wanted to take photos you also had to buy an extra ticket - which is luckely not anymore the case !
Like several other ZooChatters I like the history of zoos and Hagenbeck really has still a lot of this. Esp. the Bird House is an all-time favorite of my !
On German TV there is the programm Leopard, Seebär und Co. and here the daily activities of the keepers and the animals are shown and I'm always amazed about the inter-actions between keepers and animals at this zoo ( esp. how they still have the close-contact with the elephants ! ) and also the Lowland tapirs are petted and scrubbed by the keepers on a regulary base !
I also think not all enclosures are adequate ( both from a visitor-view-point and from the animals point of view ) but evenso I like Hagenbecks and from an historical point of view it really is a place which has changed the ( zoo ) world !
I've been there already several times ( my first visit was 1986 when the Tropen-aquarium as it is now-a-days still wasn't there but a small aquarium - terrarium buiding in the zoo - where you however also had to pay an extra entance-ticket ! ). If you wanted to take photos you also had to buy an extra ticket - which is luckely not anymore the case !
Like several other ZooChatters I like the history of zoos and Hagenbeck really has still a lot of this. Esp. the Bird House is an all-time favorite of my !
On German TV there is the programm Leopard, Seebär und Co. and here the daily activities of the keepers and the animals are shown and I'm always amazed about the inter-actions between keepers and animals at this zoo ( esp. how they still have the close-contact with the elephants ! ) and also the Lowland tapirs are petted and scrubbed by the keepers on a regulary base !
I also think not all enclosures are adequate ( both from a visitor-view-point and from the animals point of view ) but evenso I like Hagenbecks and from an historical point of view it really is a place which has changed the ( zoo ) world !
Congrats on 500! A worthy zoo for a worthy milestone is the best way to make it worthwhile. Can't wait for your Berlin reviews!
Congrats on visiting your 500th zoo, snowleopard! Been really enjoying reading about your adventures in Europe so far, particularly Rotterdam, Pairi Daiza, and Burgers’. Looking forward to seeing what the rest of the trip holds!
Good to hear you enjoyed Hamburg @snowleopard! A fine choice for you 500th zoo!
The thing is, I can easily spend multiple days in Zoo Antwerpen without being bored. However, I don't think anyone needs more than a day (maybe even less) to see the entire zoo.
The thing is, I can easily spend multiple days in Zoo Antwerpen without being bored. However, I don't think anyone needs more than a day (maybe even less) to see the entire zoo.
Congrats @snowleopard on your 500th zoo.
I dip into Zoochat here and there, and usually read all of your review in bits and pieces, but I have just spent 2.5 hours reading this whole thread from beginning to end. What an absolute joy!
So interesting to hear the perspective of a non-European on European zoos, and also to hear your views on many zoos that I have visited myself (and many, many more that I haven't).
Really looking forward to your views on the Berlins!!
Shame you couldn't hang around a bit longer and join us in Nuremburg in Sept, but glad you got to catch-up with so many fellow Zoochatters on this trip.
I dip into Zoochat here and there, and usually read all of your review in bits and pieces, but I have just spent 2.5 hours reading this whole thread from beginning to end. What an absolute joy!
So interesting to hear the perspective of a non-European on European zoos, and also to hear your views on many zoos that I have visited myself (and many, many more that I haven't).
Really looking forward to your views on the Berlins!!
Shame you couldn't hang around a bit longer and join us in Nuremburg in Sept, but glad you got to catch-up with so many fellow Zoochatters on this trip.
Sitting in the train back home after a thoroughly enjoyable day with Snowleopard. He dropped me off at the train station as his epic roadtrip is drawing to an end.
We visited Emmen and Amersfoort today, as his desert after a truly exhausting holiday.
He said he truly hated both Berlins...
... or maybe not
We visited Emmen and Amersfoort today, as his desert after a truly exhausting holiday.
He said he truly hated both Berlins...
... or maybe not
ANyhuis
Well-Known Member
Sitting in the train back home after a thoroughly enjoyable day with Snowleopard. He dropped me off at the train station as his epic roadtrip is drawing to an end.
We visited Emmen and Amersfoort today, as his desert after a truly exhausting holiday.
He said he truly hated both Berlins...
... or maybe not
I'm guessing that our hero is now back home in Canada, enjoying being back with his wife and kids. Thus, he's probably going to be a bit delayed in posting the last days' updates, especially since they were some big ones!
I'm a bit stunned that you/he could do both Emmen and Amersfoort in the same day, as I see these two zoos as "full-day zoos", every bit as much as Antwerp. Then again, if you/he skipped all the rides, etc. at Emmen, you could do that zoo in a couple hours -- but then you haven't really done that zoo.
I'm guessing you're joking about him hating the Berlin zoos. Our friend Sooty would never speak to him again if he hated the Berlin zoos!
Let’s just say that unless someone revamped a concorde, he isn’t back to his “quiet life in Canada” just yet. I don’t think he’ll pull a on the trail of the bilou on us, but it might take a little time for him to finish this thread off properly.
I’m usually taking my merry time with a photograph-taking wife in tow and I even struggle to make Emmen a full day zoo. We did do the boat ride, he chickened out of the rollercoaster and we both agreed on skipping the savannah drive-through and the 4d show. There’s not much else, is there?
But two grown men, of which one knows the zoo well, walking along on a decent pace and studying exhibits but not lingering to take that fantastic shot, and not pauzing for food and drinks can easily cover the Emmen Wildlands in 2,5 hours and not miss a single exhibit, apparantly
We took a little longer in Amersfoort, but I am convinced we did not rush and still saw every exhibit in 3 hours. We even took our time watching a European badger run around.
We even started the day off at 9am at the old Emmen Zoo, amazing how much of that still exists. Took us almost an hour to walk through that!
In that case, let’s hope you guessed correctly
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
I haven't forgotten, and I am on the road right now as well, but it is hard to justify the six month gap
I would have to say @ANyhuis that I have most definitely 'done' Emmen Zoo. I was with @jwer and we had a great time visiting the old, now permanently-closed Emmen Zoo, with geriatric sheep grazing where White Rhinos used to roam. We walked all over the grounds for an hour, even meeting an interesting guy who runs the domestic animal sanctuary with a long list of animals being taken care of there. He let us go behind-the-scenes in the old 'rat sewer' section of the zoo, and there are rats, mice, hamsters, gerbils and Chinchillas still there. It's pretty cool that more than 100 volunteers take care of a range of domestics in that part of the old zoo.
Wildlands Adventure Zoo is just down the street and we saw the whole thing in 2.5 hours. A full hour was the Jungola section, another full hour was the Serenga area, and then 30 minutes was the Polar Bears, penguins and pinnipeds. If I had kids I'd be there all day long, especially with the big indoor play area, but for two grown men 2.5 hours was more than enough time. We did the boat ride in the jungle, but the roller-coaster is an abomination to the landscape and it is just a stain on the view of the African Savanna. Also, those huge trucks going through the savanna on short rides are brutal, with roads through the paddock that have no place in a zoo's African Savanna. Why not start driving big trucks through Woodland Park Zoo's African Savanna or into Giants of the Savanna at Dallas Zoo? Maybe we should just pave an entire savanna and turn it into the Autobahn. Ugh. The 'new' Emmen Zoo is a half-day zoo, at best, for a zoo nerd. I will fully admit that I thoroughly enjoyed the first hour in Jungola, but after that the zoo was hit-and-miss and way too small. I know that @Tim Brown did the 'new' Emmen in around 3 hours when it first opened.
The review of Berlin Zoo is not finished yet, but it will almost certainly be 5,000 words when it's done. I realize that expectations are high as I've received a number of messages, but I want to get it just right. I loved Berlin Zoo and so that's the important thing to know. It is my #3 zoo ever, after San Diego and Omaha.
I have a long travel day today, with an 8-hour flight from Amsterdam to Toronto, then a 2-hour layover, then a 4-hour flight from Toronto to Vancouver. Being able to see my wife and 4 kids again after 33 days and 95 zoos will be better than any zoo...especially De Paay!
Wildlands Adventure Zoo is just down the street and we saw the whole thing in 2.5 hours. A full hour was the Jungola section, another full hour was the Serenga area, and then 30 minutes was the Polar Bears, penguins and pinnipeds. If I had kids I'd be there all day long, especially with the big indoor play area, but for two grown men 2.5 hours was more than enough time. We did the boat ride in the jungle, but the roller-coaster is an abomination to the landscape and it is just a stain on the view of the African Savanna. Also, those huge trucks going through the savanna on short rides are brutal, with roads through the paddock that have no place in a zoo's African Savanna. Why not start driving big trucks through Woodland Park Zoo's African Savanna or into Giants of the Savanna at Dallas Zoo? Maybe we should just pave an entire savanna and turn it into the Autobahn. Ugh. The 'new' Emmen Zoo is a half-day zoo, at best, for a zoo nerd. I will fully admit that I thoroughly enjoyed the first hour in Jungola, but after that the zoo was hit-and-miss and way too small. I know that @Tim Brown did the 'new' Emmen in around 3 hours when it first opened.
The review of Berlin Zoo is not finished yet, but it will almost certainly be 5,000 words when it's done. I realize that expectations are high as I've received a number of messages, but I want to get it just right. I loved Berlin Zoo and so that's the important thing to know.
It is my #3 zoo ever, after San Diego and Omaha.I have a long travel day today, with an 8-hour flight from Amsterdam to Toronto, then a 2-hour layover, then a 4-hour flight from Toronto to Vancouver. Being able to see my wife and 4 kids again after 33 days and 95 zoos will be better than any zoo...especially De Paay!