ZooChat Cup Group C: Singapore vs Rotterdam

[Zooish]

Chlidonias' point about wild reptiles at Singapore's zoos is interesting. While most Zoochatters hunt for colugo, there are actually a number of wild native reptiles that are found in park grounds. There probably aren't many zoos in the world where one can spot with certainty 2 monitor species (water and clouded), with some luck interesting snakes like whip snakes and flying snakes, and with a lot of luck deadly species like the king cobra and blue coral snakes!

 

[ThylacineAlive]

but there are still at least 40 species of reptile,

Serious question: is 40 species considered a lot for a major European zoo? I know European zoos generally have much small herp collections than US zoos but 40 sounds like a rather unimpressive number to someone who's used to most major zoos carrying well over 100 species.*

*Not to say that the quality of the collection here isn't remarkable, I definitely think it is. I also do usually agree with quality over quantity but surely 40 species isn't that much? How many species does Singapore have?

Chlidonias' point about wild reptiles at Singapore's zoos is interesting. While most Zoochatters hunt for colugo, there are actually a number of wild native reptiles that are found in park grounds. There probably aren't many zoos in the world where one can spot with certainty 2 monitor species (water and clouded), with some luck interesting snakes like whip snakes and flying snakes, and with a lot of luck deadly species like the king cobra and blue coral snakes!

Am I the only one who feels as though species that just so happen to live wild on the zoo grounds shouldn't count? They're not apart of the collection and have nothing to do with the zoo itself.

~Thylo

 

[TZDugong]

Am I the only one who feels as though species that just so happen to live wild on the zoo grounds shouldn't count? They're not apart of the collection and have nothing to do with the zoo itself.

~Thylo

I definitely agree with this. While having interesting wild animals at a zoo is cool, I also don’t think wild animals should be counted for these competitions. The way I see it, you can take an average zoo, replace that zoo with Singapore put it right where the Singapore Zoo is located, and these wild animals would remain the same. I don’t really think Singapore should get rewarded for being lucky enough to be on a site with great wild species.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Am I the only one who feels as though species that just so happen to live wild on the zoo grounds shouldn't count? They're not apart of the collection and have nothing to do with the zoo itself.

Agreed - were this not the case, somewhere with large expanses of woodland such as Tierpark Berlin would be able to increase their species count by a significant margin

 

[Zooish]

Serious question: is 40 species considered a lot for a major European zoo? I know European zoos generally have much small herp collections than US zoos but 40 sounds like a rather unimpressive number to someone who's used to most major zoos carrying well over 100 species.*

*Not to say that the quality of the collection here isn't remarkable, I definitely think it is. I also do usually agree with quality over quantity but surely 40 species isn't that much? How many species does Singapore have?



Am I the only one who feels as though species that just so happen to live wild on the zoo grounds shouldn't count? They're not apart of the collection and have nothing to do with the zoo itself.

~Thylo

Singapore currently has over 80 reptile species on display, of which half are chelonians.

 

[FunkyGibbon]

Am I the only one who feels as though species that just so happen to live wild on the zoo grounds shouldn't count? They're not apart of the collection and have nothing to do with the zoo itself.

~Thylo

They clearly shouldn't count for species totals, but I don't see that they can't be factored in to someone's decision.

 

[Vision]

They clearly shouldn't count for species totals, but I don't see that they can't be factored in to someone's decision.

I whole-heartedly agree. Wildlife isn't some magical thing that keeps existing, no matter how much you build around it. I've been to a handful of Asian zoos now, but I've never seen a snake or monitor in any of them besides Singapore. The fact that many reptiles are still so easy to see on the grounds of Singapore Zoo means they make an effort to keep the environment inside and next to their exhibits natural, with many native plants to make sure there is enough reason for the wild reptiles to stay. The same is true and can be seen with birds in multiple examples - I saw a lot more wild birds in Toronto Zoo, Zoo Plzen and Safaripark Beekse Bergen than in most other places. This is not because those zoos have a better location than others, but because they make excellent wildlife management decisions and keep a lot of true nature within their boundaries.

An interesting point that I don't think has been brought up is also the amount of rescue animals Singapore Zoo receives and releases back into the wild - in this category it is particularly noticeable with reticulated pythons. Both Singapore Zoo and the Singapore Night Safari are designated wildlife rescue centers.
Singapore Zoo is also very involved with other conservation purposes, as can be seen on the website and on many articles - two examples are programs for Roti island snake-necked turtle and Singapore freshwater crabs.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

I whole-heartedly agree. Wildlife isn't some magical thing that keeps existing, no matter how much you build around it. I've been to a handful of Asian zoos now, but I've never seen a snake or monitor in any of them besides Singapore. The fact that many reptiles are still so easy to see on the grounds of Singapore Zoo means they make an effort to keep the environment inside and next to their exhibits natural, with many native plants to make sure there is enough reason for the wild reptiles to stay. The same is true and can be seen with birds in multiple examples - I saw a lot more wild birds in Toronto Zoo, Zoo Plzen and Safaripark Beekse Bergen than in most other places. This is not because those zoos have a better location than others, but because they make excellent wildlife management decisions and keep a lot of true nature within their boundaries.

Ok now this argument makes more sense to me. I'm still not entirely sure how I feel about it, but I suppose it does fall under the category of native conservation so I can see the thinking here.

In general, I think a lot of the recent arguments have pushed me more towards 2-1 Singapore.

~Thylo

 

[birdsandbats]

I whole-heartedly agree. Wildlife isn't some magical thing that keeps existing, no matter how much you build around it. I've been to a handful of Asian zoos now, but I've never seen a snake or monitor in any of them besides Singapore. The fact that many reptiles are still so easy to see on the grounds of Singapore Zoo means they make an effort to keep the environment inside and next to their exhibits natural, with many native plants to make sure there is enough reason for the wild reptiles to stay. The same is true and can be seen with birds in multiple examples - I saw a lot more wild birds in Toronto Zoo, Zoo Plzen and Safaripark Beekse Bergen than in most other places. This is not because those zoos have a better location than others, but because they make excellent wildlife management decisions and keep a lot of true nature within their boundaries.

An interesting point that I don't think has been brought up is also the amount of rescue animals Singapore Zoo receives and releases back into the wild - in this category it is particularly noticeable with reticulated pythons. Both Singapore Zoo and the Singapore Night Safari are designated wildlife rescue centers.
Singapore Zoo is also very involved with other conservation purposes, as can be seen on the website and on many articles - two examples are programs for Roti island snake-necked turtle and Singapore freshwater crabs.

You convinced me. I'm voting 2-1 in favor of Singapore.

 

[TheGerenuk]

I whole-heartedly agree. Wildlife isn't some magical thing that keeps existing, no matter how much you build around it. I've been to a handful of Asian zoos now, but I've never seen a snake or monitor in any of them besides Singapore. The fact that many reptiles are still so easy to see on the grounds of Singapore Zoo means they make an effort to keep the environment inside and next to their exhibits natural, with many native plants to make sure there is enough reason for the wild reptiles to stay. The same is true and can be seen with birds in multiple examples - I saw a lot more wild birds in Toronto Zoo, Zoo Plzen and Safaripark Beekse Bergen than in most other places. This is not because those zoos have a better location than others, but because they make excellent wildlife management decisions and keep a lot of true nature within their boundaries.

An interesting point that I don't think has been brought up is also the amount of rescue animals Singapore Zoo receives and releases back into the wild - in this category it is particularly noticeable with reticulated pythons. Both Singapore Zoo and the Singapore Night Safari are designated wildlife rescue centers.
Singapore Zoo is also very involved with other conservation purposes, as can be seen on the website and on many articles - two examples are programs for Roti island snake-necked turtle and Singapore freshwater crabs.

Well said. I've also changed my vote to 2-1 for Singapore.

 

[lintworm]

Singapore Zoo is also very involved with other conservation purposes, as can be seen on the website and on many articles - two examples are programs for Roti island snake-necked turtle and Singapore freshwater crabs.

Rotterdam is however also quite active in conservation of ecotherms, though especially ex-situ. The zoo has long been one of the main players when it comes to breeding endangered tortoises, this work was mainly moved behind the scenes, but is coming back in the Oceanium recently. Unfortunately with Henk Zwartepoorte who sadly passed away recently, the front runner of this work has gone now... Ex situ they support Sea turtle and Komodo dragon conservation projects and they partner with the Dutch butterfly association for local butterflies.

I whole-heartedly agree. Wildlife isn't some magical thing that keeps existing, no matter how much you build around it. I've been to a handful of Asian zoos now, but I've never seen a snake or monitor in any of them besides Singapore. The fact that many reptiles are still so easy to see on the grounds of Singapore Zoo means they make an effort to keep the environment inside and next to their exhibits natural, with many native plants to make sure there is enough reason for the wild reptiles to stay. The same is true and can be seen with birds in multiple examples - I saw a lot more wild birds in Toronto Zoo, Zoo Plzen and Safaripark Beekse Bergen than in most other places. This is not because those zoos have a better location than others, but because they make excellent wildlife management decisions and keep a lot of true nature within their boundaries.

In the case of Singapore it has a lot to do with location, as it is located right next to some nature reserves. The vegetation, including trees, in the zoo is for a large part non-native. It all has the jungle look, but hardly anything would be part of the natural vegetation, so logically most of the animals you will find are from disturbed areas. Singapore has the advantage of being in the tropics, so even heavily disturbed woodland areas still harbour quite some diversity. Something which is next to impossible in a zoo in the centre of one of the largest urban areas in western Europe. Blijdorp still tries to be a green oasis and it has some native amphibians and is supposedly one of the last places in the city where one would still find House sparrows (yes these are placed on the Dutch red list....)

Serious question: is 40 species considered a lot for a major European zoo? I know European zoos generally have much small herp collections than US zoos but 40 sounds like a rather unimpressive number to someone who's used to most major zoos carrying well over 100 species.*

40 is the second largest number in the Netherlands and is pretty average for zoos that have reptile collections in Europe (that number is less than half). Zootierliste lists 59 reptile species for Blijdorp, but is somewhat outdated. 40 is a very conservative estimate though.

 

[TheGerenuk]

Final Score:

After a long, close battle, Rotterdam prevails against Singapore 43-38