Los Angeles Zoo & Botanical Gardens Activists trying to seize LA zoo elephant

Lol. There's no being dumb; we're all learning every day. I'm glad you"re reporting what's going on at the zoo, because it's important, both for the activist issue and getting the benefit of Billy's genetic diversity. The Asian elephant population in North America numbers only about 230, with the majority of those over breeding age, and no chance to import new animals from the wild. If we're going to develop a self-sustaining population, all zoos must work together from one central Species Survival Plan to coordinate who breeds who so there is no inbreeding and so every institution with the resources and facilities to breed, can breed in a way that's healthy for the population. There are only about 12 zoos breeding Asian elephants, and we all wish a breeding female would just materialize out of thin air so Billy could be bred. Many zoos and their supporters have faced the loss of calves to the EEHV virus and the loss of surviving male calves being sent to other zoos to continue the nationwide breeding program. My home zoo, for instance, is the Smithsonian Nation Zoo (NZP), and our only surviving calf ever, Kandula, was sent to OKC. We miss him a lot, but at least we still have his mother and a female herd. Billy at one time was your only elephant, and your beautiful facility was built essentially to house a male elephant so you could keep him safely. On top of everything, he's great to watch behaviorally and is absolutely beautiful! I can see how it would be a terrible loss for you if he were to be moved. But with a shortage of breeding females, that leaves Billy without a mate for now. The important thing, though, is that he gets some attempt at companionship or it will be the activists who decide where Billy will end up--and sanctuaries typically allow no visitation and are opposed to breeding. I envy you seeing him in that wonderful habitat so often!

I'm not sure why I'm not getting the links, but use the search tool and look up North American Elephant Population and North American Elephant Institutions. Elephant Enthusiast has put together 2 great resources for those interested!
 
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AmbikaFan said:
Lol. There's no being dumb; we're all learning every day. I'm glad you"re reporting what's going on at the zoo, because it's important, both for the activist issue and getting the benefit of Billy's genetic diversity. The Asian elephant population in North America numbers only about 230, with the majority of those over breeding age, and no chance to import new animals from the wild. If we're going to develop a self-sustaining population, all zoos must work together from one central Species Survival Plan to coordinate who breeds who so there is no inbreeding and so every institution with the resources and facilities to breed, can breed in a way that's healthy for the population. There are only about 12 zoos breeding Asian elephants, and we all wish a breeding female would just materialize out of thin air so Billy could be bred. Many zoos and their supporters have faced the loss of calves to the EEHV virus and the loss of surviving male calves being sent to other zoos to continue the nationwide breeding program. My home zoo, for instance, is the Smithsonian Nation Zoo (NZP), and our only surviving calf ever, Kandula, was sent to OKC. We miss him a lot, but at least we still have his mother and a female herd. Billy at one time was your only elephant, and your beautiful facility was built essentially to house a male elephant so you could keep him safely. On top of everything, he's great to watch behaviorally and is absolutely beautiful! I can see how it would be a terrible loss for you if he were to be moved. But with a shortage of breeding females, that leaves Billy without a mate for now. The important thing, though, is that he gets some attempt at companionship or it will be the activists who decide where Billy will end up--and sanctuaries typically allow no visitation and are opposed to breeding. I envy you seeing him in that wonderful habitat so often!

I'm not sure why I'm not getting the links, but use the search tool and look up North American Elephant Population and North American Elephant Institutions. Elephant Enthusiast has put together 2 great resources for those interested!
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Thank you for being so informative! I will check them out, I would sorely miss him as he has been essentially a movie star that I get to see on a weekly basis. It makes me so happy seeing that how they built the whole Elephants of Asia exhibit as the heart of the zoo because it doesn’t matter what direction you go, you can just walk back to the center and see them all, Billy, Tina, Jewel, and Shaunzi enjoying their vast home. But I can’t let my emotions cloud my judgment which even saying that makes want to fight to keep him. I do agree in that he should have some companionship because he’s been predominantly solitary all these decades that I remember seeing him in that really small exhibit during the 90’s. I know the zoo has allowed for some for of close contact with the other females although there is always a barrier between him and females. Seeing Billy one day add to the gene pool with his untapped genetic resource can help greatly with him being essentially a “wild” elephant that has been raised in captivity for a majority of his life. I can only hope that one day he can add to the diversity of elephant DNA within AZA zoos that will be able to have him breed with a female, I’ll miss him when he leaves but it still have some really gorgeous females that love exploring their whole habitat.
 
AmbikaFan said:
I feel sure that LA has been asked to loan him to another zoo and they have refused; it's hard to blame them when they built that truly extraordinary habitat literally for him, their pride and joy.
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If all of this is correct then I think it's quite easy to blame them actually.
 
Julio C Castro said:
As a fellow Angelino who has been to the LA Zoo since a child, the quality of care and welfare that is bestowed on Billy has become way better in my opinion. I remember the relatively small enclosure the elephants had when I was a child and it appeared at the time, which would’ve been the mid 90’s, outdated. With the expansion, Elephants of Asia, they are given way more space and enrichment area than ever before. I don’t get why they continue to protest outside the zoo and from what I’ve seen the main elephant keepers do is amazing. They encourage positive reinforcement for all the elephants not just Billy. About 1 week ago, during the elephant enrichment event, Tina the elephant was being a bit stubborn at first and not once did I ever see the keepers get frustrated or even as much as a disappointed face. It was much more of “we are on their time and when they decide they want to do whenever” kind of attitude and I mean it in a good way. I’ve seen every single elephant at the zoo partake in their whole habitat and admittedly I do wish more shade was available due to the very dry weather in Griffith Park. If they want to cool off, they can take a dip in the pool by the elephant circle which borders the Red Ape Rainforest exhibit, or soak under the waterfall which appears to be one of Billy’s spots to hang out. Long story short, the LA Zoo has come a long way in regards of their treatment and care of their largest residents and I don’t think any sanctuary will be able to dedicate the time and care the zoo provides. I’m not trying to disparage any sanctuary but I think the zoo has been doing one hell of a job for the pachyderms.
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The one time I saw Elephants of Asia four years ago, I saw the keepers working with Billy in the demonstration area. It was the best work I have personally seen with elephants in a zoo anywhere. What a marvelous individual animal, too.
 
Anniella said:
The one time I saw Elephants of Asia four years ago, I saw the keepers working with Billy in the demonstration area. It was the best work I have personally seen with elephants in a zoo anywhere. What a marvelous individual animal, too.
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He is definitely a marvel to see as well as the females when they go around looking through their whole habitat. It definitely is amongst the best exhibits at the zoo and definitely a great investment from their recent master plan.
 
For Billy, the zoo should find some cows to breed. As a very valuable bull should certainly be used breeding. LA has very good conditions for elephant breeding and it is a pity that only three old cows live together with Billy. I would try to get some elephants from Polk City or Rockton (Emily with her daughter Gigi, breeding bull Johnsonn is related to her).
I also don't understand why PAWS castrates some bulls. It is an interference with animal life. First, activists fight against the interference in animal life and condemn zoos, and then castrate the bulls. It's stupid. The winning of fighting activists would probably be bringing breeding cows and integrating Billy into family life. Activists would have to be quiet, and it would also be a great thing for the American population of asian elephants.
 
Elephantelephant said:
For Billy, the zoo should find some cows to breed. As a very valuable bull should certainly be used breeding. LA has very good conditions for elephant breeding and it is a pity that only three old cows live together with Billy. I would try to get some elephants from Polk City or Rockton (Emily with her daughter Gigi, breeding bull Johnsonn is related to her).
I also don't understand why PAWS castrates some bulls. It is an interference with animal life. First, activists fight against the interference in animal life and condemn zoos, and then castrate the bulls. It's stupid. The winning of fighting activists would probably be bringing breeding cows and integrating Billy into family life. Activists would have to be quiet, and it would also be a great thing for the American population of asian elephants.
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I do want for the zoo to acquire new cows for them to have Billy breed with, it would add to the population like you said and the zoo is more than equipped to handle all the influx of new cows to be housed due to how they made they the complex. AmbikaFan educated me on how maybe Billy should be sent out to breed which even though we’d miss him deeply, it would be selfish to not help this specie and populate it with his valuable genetics.
 
Sanctuaries don't believe in breeding. Remember, they feel elephants should only exist in the wild. I'm not entire sure Subu's neutering was for birth control, however. It could have been done in hopes of calming a particularly violent musth where he was previously. But as the only sanctuary accepting males, the zoo would pretty much have to do whatever PAWS dictates if the public forces the city council on this issue.

Charlie Gray has worked long and hard to develop his wonderful herd at ALS, and when you see them all together, it doesn't seem as if any could be spared! However, I was just remembering a particularly troublesome breeding agreement between Have Trunk, Will Travel and Oregon when Tusko first came to be their stud. It wasn't until one of the calves was born that someone discovered that HTWT had stipulated on taking ownership of every other calf sired by Tusko. This so outraged Portland that the community raised funds to buy Tusko out of the deal to ensure that neither father nor alternate progeny would have to leave the zoo.

This may seem roundabout, but perhaps there is a way for Emily and Gigi to be loaned to LA with a proviso that alternate calves return to Rockton. That still results in male calves who would be related on Emily or George's lineage, but perhaps a line-breeding between two generations would be ok? Otherwise, unfortunately, AlS doesn't benefit from the deal. Lol it would seem with so many that two couldn't be missed, but I have to say Emily and Gigi are my personal favorites! I'd go toLA to see them, but I believe Gray is planning on acquiring a bull from Europe to breed to Emily and all his little girls.
 
AmbikaFan said:
Sanctuaries don't believe in breeding. Remember, they feel elephants should only exist in the wild. I'm not entire sure Subu's neutering was for birth control, however. It could have been done in hopes of calming a particularly violent musth where he was previously. But as the only sanctuary accepting males, the zoo would pretty much have to do whatever PAWS dictates if the public forces the city council on this issue.

Charlie Gray has worked long and hard to develop his wonderful herd at ALS, and when you see them all together, it doesn't seem as if any could be spared! However, I was just remembering a particularly troublesome breeding agreement between Have Trunk, Will Travel and Oregon when Tusko first came to be their stud. It wasn't until one of the calves was born that someone discovered that HTWT had stipulated on taking ownership of every other calf sired by Tusko. This so outraged Portland that the community raised funds to buy Tusko out of the deal to ensure that neither father nor alternate progeny would have to leave the zoo.

This may seem roundabout, but perhaps there is a way for Emily and Gigi to be loaned to LA with a proviso that alternate calves return to Rockton. That still results in male calves who would be related on Emily or George's lineage, but perhaps a line-breeding between two generations would be ok? Otherwise, unfortunately, AlS doesn't benefit from the deal. Lol it would seem with so many that two couldn't be missed, but I have to say Emily and Gigi are my personal favorites! I'd go toLA to see them, but I believe Gray is planning on acquiring a bull from Europe to breed to Emily and all his little girls.
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The situation for elephant breeding seems to be a rather strenuous one although needed. I just hope that any facility that has the tools and resources to breed Asian Elephants should have the necessary backing of their zoo as well as others along with the government if needed. We all know that elephants are major attractions to zoos nationwide as well as worldwide but it makes more sense for the specie to have genetically valuable specimens breed at a facility that can give the proper care and housing needed. I’m not talking just about LA but any and all zoos that can get the job done, this like other species, are endangered like many of us know and I was recently taught about the troubles some zoos have to calf mortalities which appears to be a big issue. I love Billy so much and I’d miss him if he were to leave but if it mean him going to another zoo that can make a healthy population then it should be done or at least have breeding cows brought to LA like AmbikaFan mentioned.
 
I think LA zoo makes a mistake. She should involve Billy in the breeding of Asian elephants. Either by transfer to another zoo, or by acquiring breeding cows. I think that if the zoo were looking for breeding cows, they would surely find them (Polk City had wanted to put a few elephants in Washington in the past, but instead they took the elephants from Calgary). I think the LA zoo is not yet interested in more elephants, although the facility would be sufficient for the entire breeding herd.
 
Elephantelephant said:
I think LA zoo makes a mistake. She should involve Billy in the breeding of Asian elephants. Either by transfer to another zoo, or by acquiring breeding cows. I think that if the zoo were looking for breeding cows, they would surely find them (Polk City had wanted to put a few elephants in Washington in the past, but instead they took the elephants from Calgary). I think the LA zoo is not yet interested in more elephants, although the facility would be sufficient for the entire breeding herd.
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I think you’re right in that they may not want more elephants at this time but if they get the necessary funding to do it they should. Plus it would be a big draw to the zoo to have a whole herd of elephants that fill up the entire exhibit which apparently can house up to 11 elephants if need so bring in a few cows and making the necessary adjustments for rearing incoming calves so that they can all be housed properly. I just hope they can get the situation settled.
 
Elephantelephant said:
I think LA zoo makes a mistake. She should involve Billy in the breeding of Asian elephants. Either by transfer to another zoo, or by acquiring breeding cows. I think that if the zoo were looking for breeding cows, they would surely find them (Polk City had wanted to put a few elephants in Washington in the past, but instead they took the elephants from Calgary). I think the LA zoo is not yet interested in more elephants, although the facility would be sufficient for the entire breeding herd.
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This just points to how political this can all be. It was my understanding too that Ringling offered breeding age females to NZP who could have been bred to home-born boy Kandula. However, the Smithsonian dragged it's feet, fretting that taking former circus elephants would be too controversial for the national zoo......and they declined the off. I stead, they imported Calgary's herd, which included Kandula's aunt and grandmother, blood relations. With no one to breed to, Kandula was sent to OKC, and the new breeding facilities strong enough to house two males were left empty for what then looked to be a retirement facility. Since Spike and Maharani had conceived three times--one stillbirth, one rejected baby, one lost to EEHV--Spike was brought back in hopes of heating up an old flame. They've heated things up, but there is no pregnancy, and Rani is going on 10 years from her last birth, the stillbirth. Compared to a future that included two young Ringling girls and Kandula and a matriarchal herd for DC--virtually the center of reproductive and EEHV science--but it looks more and more like a retirement herd and a beautiful, personable bull who will probably be sent on his way to pass on his parents' wild-born genes.

Activist groups do just enough to cause doubt. That totally changed DC from a breeding institution, and I hope some token efforts should be made to give Billy companionship before this fate removes him from the zoo world.
 
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