Apparently, they want to construct a seperate new building for African rhinos some time in the future. I hope this actually will happen, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Berlin Tierpark Tierpark Berlin News 2019
- Thread starter markmeier
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Apparently, they want to construct a seperate new building for African rhinos some time in the future. I hope this actually will happen, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Thank you for the clarification @markmeier ! I am planning to visit Berlin next year too and definitely look at the current situation as a glass half full. There is so much to look forward to. Last year I spent 1,5 days in TP and it was barely enough. Now I I will be able to pay more attention to the Mountain zone, Deer section and Polar bear junior, skipping revisits around construction sites. Same time it is very interesting to witness the historical transformation of this iconic zoo.
Bib Fortuna
Well-Known Member
Of course I've seen that several times-but its only dirty water, not"real"mud.
I would basically say: Water + earthy ground = dirty water = mud. And the rhinos always seemed to manage well with this. At least, I have often seen rather muddy rhinos in Tierpark Berlin. I also don't know what you mean by "too hard" ground/ soil. I don't know about any leg/ knee problems etc. The animals always seemed to strive, had regular offspring and turned quite old
But I don't see a big point in controversially discussing this rhino husbandry anyways. There won't be any further rhinos in this complex and Zoo Berlin is building an entirely new complex for Indian rhinos and other animals. So this is what I am rather interested in now.
Rhino Belur will stay at Nuernberg.
Bib Fortuna
Well-Known Member
You're right. When the animals breed and grow old, then the attitude is right. My mistake.But if the rhinos were justified in not bathing or taking a mud bath for more than 7 months of the year? But in nature, rhinos also do not bathe between October and April.No matter. The keeping is fortunately ended. Now even Stuttgart should have the courage to give up the keeping of indian rhinos until a new exhibit can be built. But I am also not confident in terms of the zoo Berlin.
Yep, that's exactly how I remembered it.
I remember finding one of those snails when their were still birds in the house in 2018.
~Thylo
It is simply not true that they couldn't bath for "more than 7 months" each year. In recent years, they went outside most of the year and I remember them bathing quite early in spring as well as rather late in fall/ autumn (Berlin has had very mild temperatures for quite some years now). In addition, the rhinos also got showers with a hose inside the building all year long and always seemed to enjoy this a lot. I never had a bad impression nor did I hear others complain about this specific husbandry before.
But it is kind of revealing that you already express scepticism concerning the new complex as well. Have you done any research on the project? To me it seems rather modern and generous and it definitely will be quite costly.
Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
When do elephants move? At first it was planned by the end of the year, but it looks like it will be delayed. I also wonder where Kewa and her family will move when Munich no longer wants it. Possible is Emmen, who is able to accommodate up to twenty elephants. Another option is perhaps Pont Scorff, because last year there died the only breeding cow Homaline. Frosja and Louise are likely to go to Augsburg, Astra to Karlsruhe. It will also be interesting with African elephants. There was some speculation about Kronberg, but it was also said that Pori should go to Halle and meet her daughter Tana, but Panya and Ayo would have to leave. The question is also whether a 48-year-old cow Lilak is a good move.
Bib Fortuna
Well-Known Member
In Tierpark Berlin, there was never a mudbath for the rhinos, but only a bath with muddy water.But there is a big difference between mud and dirty water - the consistency is different:Mud refers to a mixture of finely divided, predominantly very fine-grained solid and a comparatively small amount of liquid, usually but not necessarily, formed by sedimentation.Mud on the skin of rhinoceros, when dried, forms a firm layer, a type of breading, which the animals rub off on trees and rocks to get rid of annoying insects and parasites.This effect can not be achieved with dirty water.Mud baths are very important for all pachyderms for skin care. And the rhinos in Tierpark never had that chance. But not in other German zoos,too.For a species like the Indian rhino, the most aquatic of all rhino species which freely spends over 50% of the day in the water, access to a pool must be granted to every individual in captivity, at all times, also at night. All year round, inside and outside. Unfortunately, this is still the case in only a few zoos in Europe. In Beauval 4 or 5 animals have to share one Pool , that's not possible. Daily shower with a hose is not enough - that's what Hagenbeck has been doing for over 70 years, because the animals did not have a bath in the house - unbelievable.Do hippopotamuses need a pool if the animal keeper gives them a shower with the host several times a day? No, not really.The fact is - I have never seen a muddy rhino in Berlin. Since no plans have yet been published by the new rhino house at Zoo Berlin, of course I can not yet say how the future welfare will be there, but given the modern way to keep rhinos, I have a little skepticism there. I let me surprise, maybe it will even be something acceptable.
taun
Well-Known Member
Any scientific reports/research into Indian rhino needing a pool? While I appreciate the benefits one provides, not sure its a basic need to keep them in a satisfactory environment.
Bib Fortuna
Well-Known Member
Its not necessary to be a scientist to know that Indian Rhinos need a pool Year round all the time.They spend in nature 50 % of the water!
This is an excerpt from the Husbandry Manua for Indian Rhinos:
Mud Wallows and Pools. Mud wallows are highly recommended, in hot climates even a must. They should be sized to provide plenty of space for each animal on the exhibit. Wallows contribute to skin and foot health, thermoregulation and behavioral enrichment (and they are a real attraction for the visitors, especially when there are calves present). Real mud wal-lows (without a concrete foundation) have to be dredged out at least once a year to prevent contamination. And, because only few bacteria resist direct sunlight, expo-sure to the sun helps keep a mud wallow healthy. Still, in very hot climates, a shaded configuration is preferable. Given a start with a water hose, rhinos often create their own wallow.For the Indian rhino, pools are an absolute must. Depending on the number of ani-mals on an enclosure, the pools should have a minimal size of 30-40 m2 with a depth between 0.9 in the shallow and 2 m or more in the deep parts. When a calf is on the enclosure, pools should be drained to 0,45 m or less in depth. Ramps are better than steps for access. Slopes should be no steeper than 15°-20°. If steps are used, they should have a 20-25 cm rise with a 40-60 cm step depth. Multiple entries into the pool are essential to prevent 'dead-ends'. Design of pools should accommodate cleaning by keepers. Pool substrate should be smooth, but not slippery. Abrasive surfaces flatten water-softened nails, causing hard-to-heal hairline cracks that may extend to the coronary band of the lateral nails
While husbandry manual wise correct and true, the TP rhino exhibit was never designed for GORhino but African whites. After the white rhino all left the Indians got theirs too and the habitat was never fully renovated for them.
All being so, their management by local keeping staff allowed them an exemplary breeding record with the 1.1 compatible pairing consistently producing a calf every 4 or so years.
All being so, their management by local keeping staff allowed them an exemplary breeding record with the 1.1 compatible pairing consistently producing a calf every 4 or so years.
Bib Fortuna
Well-Known Member
Originally, as far as I know, both African rhino species were intended for the new pachyderm house. The plans must have been changed before the start of construction, because in the house a pool was built, which is not absolutely necessary for African rhinos, because they prefer mud to the water. I think the plans were changed after the keeping of black rhinoceros ended in 1983. An own house for Indian rhinos came out of question for cost reasons.The fact that the pachyderm house was structurally not adapted to the needs of Indian Rhinos - and the pool has rather used for pygmy hippos- is to be regarded as a lack of interest of the zoo management of that time.
taun
Well-Known Member
A user of Zoofreunde platform has discovered a website with details on the remodeling of the vulture aviary and the enclosures of cheetahs and penguins (it is set up for companies that try to get the contract for this project).
Tierpark Berlin-Friedrichsfelde - Neugestaltung verschiedener Anlagen, Landschaftsbauarbeiten in 10319 Berlin | eVergabe.de
It's all German, of course. Basically, it reveals that the huge vulture aviary will become a walk through exhibit (if I don't get this wrong), which would be quite awesome. There also will be a lot of new aesthetic elements, including three observing huts and a new window (I assume for the "fency" cheetah enclosure).
According to the website, all should be finished by March 20th 2020. I don't know if this is realistic. But it might give a hint for the progress at the Brehm building, as they plan to open it all together in one procedure (at least so I heard).
Speaking of which, they now are working on the tiger enclosures in the big outside court of the Brehm building. So no more chances to spot any tigers for the time being. @twilighter: I am glad, you already know Tierpark Berlin and you will come back at later occasions. Otherwise this would be another downfall.
By the way, according to a document I just found recently, they plan to reopen the mountain area as a Himalaya zone as well as additional parts of the Africa zone in 2021. But I think there won't be too much building going on right away (although they cut some trees and removed first animals up there as well). So it might indeed be a very good idea to give the mountain area a visit and also a good look. It may never look quite the same. As for the Africa zone, I don't know specific details, but I could well imagine they open the long planned for huge newly combined savannah exhibit or start work around the prospective elephant building. They will invest close to 6 mio Euro on the Africa zone alone in this time frame, so it has to be something large (Himalaya won't be much cheaper either). The document also mentions plans for an otter enclosure for some 1.2 mio Euro, but it doesn't give any specifics on it...
As I wrote in the opening remarks of this thread, Tierpark Berlin experiences a strong dynamic which is unprecedented in recent decades.
Tierpark Berlin-Friedrichsfelde - Neugestaltung verschiedener Anlagen, Landschaftsbauarbeiten in 10319 Berlin | eVergabe.de
It's all German, of course. Basically, it reveals that the huge vulture aviary will become a walk through exhibit (if I don't get this wrong), which would be quite awesome. There also will be a lot of new aesthetic elements, including three observing huts and a new window (I assume for the "fency" cheetah enclosure).
According to the website, all should be finished by March 20th 2020. I don't know if this is realistic. But it might give a hint for the progress at the Brehm building, as they plan to open it all together in one procedure (at least so I heard).
Speaking of which, they now are working on the tiger enclosures in the big outside court of the Brehm building. So no more chances to spot any tigers for the time being. @twilighter: I am glad, you already know Tierpark Berlin and you will come back at later occasions. Otherwise this would be another downfall.
By the way, according to a document I just found recently, they plan to reopen the mountain area as a Himalaya zone as well as additional parts of the Africa zone in 2021. But I think there won't be too much building going on right away (although they cut some trees and removed first animals up there as well). So it might indeed be a very good idea to give the mountain area a visit and also a good look. It may never look quite the same. As for the Africa zone, I don't know specific details, but I could well imagine they open the long planned for huge newly combined savannah exhibit or start work around the prospective elephant building. They will invest close to 6 mio Euro on the Africa zone alone in this time frame, so it has to be something large (Himalaya won't be much cheaper either). The document also mentions plans for an otter enclosure for some 1.2 mio Euro, but it doesn't give any specifics on it...
As I wrote in the opening remarks of this thread, Tierpark Berlin experiences a strong dynamic which is unprecedented in recent decades.
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...and converse to the ABH and Pachyderm House renovations, I would tend to argue this is a development without cause
as it's currently one of the highlights of the collection and certainly doesn't need gutting and refitting!
@TeaLovingDave This is a complex issue in my opinion. I definitely share your great enthusiasm for the present mountain area. But I do know that relatively few visitors go up there. One problem is the access which of course also could be (and long should have been) improved without much further ado. Another problem, however, is the lack of spectacular highlight species. They plan to move red pandas and snow leopards up there and there probably will be quite some aesthetic measures again.
But what I actually really look forward to is the merging of some already large enclosures and the formation of mixed species exhibits. This could well build upon the existing strengths of this complex and of Tierpark Berlin in general. While there probably never will be anything quite as fancy as Gondwana (although Brehm and elephant building could well become great highlights), no other German zoo can offer anything like the upcoming array of generous to huge mixed species exhibits from various regions and continents that is to be formed here. There already are great enclosures in each part of the park, but the new savannah for instance will just be huge(!) and it will form an impressive African complex along with the enclosures for elephants, buffalos etc. The same probably goes for the Himalaya complex or the South America complex (which in a way already exists in some first fragments).
But what I actually really look forward to is the merging of some already large enclosures and the formation of mixed species exhibits. This could well build upon the existing strengths of this complex and of Tierpark Berlin in general. While there probably never will be anything quite as fancy as Gondwana (although Brehm and elephant building could well become great highlights), no other German zoo can offer anything like the upcoming array of generous to huge mixed species exhibits from various regions and continents that is to be formed here. There already are great enclosures in each part of the park, but the new savannah for instance will just be huge(!) and it will form an impressive African complex along with the enclosures for elephants, buffalos etc. The same probably goes for the Himalaya complex or the South America complex (which in a way already exists in some first fragments).
I tend to agree with the fact that the mountain area could do with a few more highlight species. I sat on a picnic bench near the lynx exhibit in mid summer for upwards of 40 minutes and nobody passed by. However a complete gutting is definitely not needed as the area is superb as it is. However redevelopment of what was just a massive lawn opposite the moose exhibit should be looked at.
Elephant Building
A user of Zoofreundeforum discovered a new rendering as well as some information on the elephant building. According to the website of a company involved in the process, it is going to be the largest elephant building in all of Europe. Further, it is to receive a huge glass roof to give the animals maximum access to natural light all year long. There also will be natural ground materials. As far as I know it is to cost about 35-40 mio Euro.
This is said rendering:
Copyright IGP Completing Projects
And this is the German homepage behind the information Dickhäuterhaus Berlin | IGP Completing Projects
A user of Zoofreundeforum discovered a new rendering as well as some information on the elephant building. According to the website of a company involved in the process, it is going to be the largest elephant building in all of Europe. Further, it is to receive a huge glass roof to give the animals maximum access to natural light all year long. There also will be natural ground materials. As far as I know it is to cost about 35-40 mio Euro.
This is said rendering:
Copyright IGP Completing Projects
And this is the German homepage behind the information Dickhäuterhaus Berlin | IGP Completing Projects
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