How do I get started with big cat conservation?

Batto said:
Oh well, my intention was certainly not to insult; on the contrary. But I see a few common elements there: the passion for large and dangerous apex predators, the will to help conserve them, the belief to understand them...But whom am I to talk; I just drove quite a long way today to pick up a homeless Cerastes cerastes. ^^
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I'm with you on this Batto. I've never worked near/with Panthera, but I have worked with smaller wild cats and they need just as much respect. They are just as much hunters as their bigger cousins and they can still inflict a long of damage. The moment you claim you understand a dangerous animal, you often start getting careless. After all, you know this animal, you know what they can do. But working with any kind of potentially dangerous animal, be it eagle, big cat, or viper, becoming complacent will get you hurt. They are not house pets. I've heard plenty of stories of keepers faking trips in a safe area to get a big cat to shift... the apex predators look for carelessness and signs of injury, it's the easiest way to get dinner.
 
Batto said:
What kind of permanent exhibition on toxins would be complete without at least a few venomous snakes in it? ^^
How to found a zoo [Welt der Gifte]
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I just read through the thread and I wasn't expecting you to be a zoo owner/founder at all. All I can say is wow !

In terms of the theming of the exhibition (such a fascinating subject matter) , the contribution to conservation in Brazil (I bet you would like to obtain a Bothrops insularis eventually , right? ), commitment to education , and even just having the courage to start it is very impressive and admirable indeed.
 
Batto said:
I don't know where exactly in Austria you're currently living (I'm in Salzburg at the moment), but there's a place in Bavaria (well, Mittelfranken...) that might be of interest in regard to voluntary work, an externship etc.
Raubtier- und Exotenasyl e.V. | Gemeinnütziger Verein zur Erhaltung und dem Schutz von in Not geratenen Raubtieren, Primaten und exotischen Tieren aller Art.

Further up North, there's the Felidae Wildkatzen- und Artenschutzzentrum Barnim, established and run by a fellow wild cat enthusiast; maybe this is a place for you to go to.
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Thanks, yes that looks really interesting, I didn't know about the Exotenasyl.

Already tried the organisation that runs felidae – no response.
But I didn't consider how there obviously could be more approachable people further down the chain.

Also I will absolutely researchrthis esearch T guy, that joke went right over my head

Edit: leaving this to showcase what a mess the mobile text editor tends to make

"I will absolutely research this Treadwell guy"

Cheers and good night!
 
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My advice, as somebody who both helped in some nature societies and worked in IT:

Don't invest beforehand in biological studies etc. at all. Go to a nature protection society or a zoo in your city and ask to be hired half-time as an IT specialist. These organizations usually don't have too much money and would welcome an IT person better than they could normally afford.

Then you will rub shoulders with people who work with big cats, and may learn how the work looks like and, when you know them well, ask to take part in something. You can get to see lots of work which you otherwise could not.

Don't overplay your interest in cats, because a zoo director may think you are a dangerous idiot who will try to pet a tiger and have a major work accident.

Prepare, however, in advance. The reality is very much unlike TV shows. There is a 99% chance you will find that work with big cats is not your thing. Unlike programming, it is: very poorly paid, physically tough and unpleasant (anything from inspecting a rotten deer carcass at 1.AM in a thunderstorm to cleaning after a tiger with diarrhoea) and often menially repetitive. And above all, you usually have no or little direct contact with wild cats. In a zoo, you clean after them, but wild cats are normally wild. They are supposed to have their own lives without keepers interference. It is rare to have a hand-raised cat. In fieldwork, you may not even see a wild cat for a year.
 
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Great Argus said:
I'm with you on this Batto. I've never worked near/with Panthera, but I have worked with smaller wild cats and they need just as much respect. They are just as much hunters as their bigger cousins and they can still inflict a long of damage. The moment you claim you understand a dangerous animal, you often start getting careless. After all, you know this animal, you know what they can do. But working with any kind of potentially dangerous animal, be it eagle, big cat, or viper, becoming complacent will get you hurt. They are not house pets. I've heard plenty of stories of keepers faking trips in a safe area to get a big cat to shift... the apex predators look for carelessness and signs of injury, it's the easiest way to get dinner.
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There is a particular tigress whose eyes and expressions while watching me in the safety corridor still haunt me to this day. I remember having quite a few nightmares about her actually.

Very humbling , nothing makes you feel quite as vulnerable , on your toes, and aware of homo sapiens place in the food chain as being confronted with a big cat displaying predatory behaviour directly towards you.

To be honest apart from the jags I never really liked / enjoyed being around the other big cats apart from the adrenaline rush of being in close proximity. Much prefer the smaller felines.
 
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Zooplantman said:
It is not the Timothy Treadwells that concern me here. They are a doomed breed. It is the people who feel that intense special affinity with dangerous animals and often lose sight of the dangers. I can think of (and have known) enough keepers who thought they understood their charges and were maimed or killed. Think on these:
‘Lion Man’ Leon van Biljon killed by his own cats at safari lodge in South Africa
Two lions attack zookeeper near Hamburg | DW | 04.05.2019
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I agree, but wouldn't you agree that to a certain extent the affinity and salience with large (particularly mammalian) predators is something innate in the human being ?

Think of the cave paintings of cave lions and bear in Lascaux and Chauvet, for example, these creatures have always been totemic to a certain degree (Although I'm absolutely sure that paleolithic humans had no illusions about the dangers of the animals they worshipped).

However, I wholeheartedly agree with you that the affinity must be tempered with a near constant caution and concentration that should it lapse might invite tragedy.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
I agree, but wouldn't you agree that to a certain extent the affinity and salience with large (particularly mammalian) predators is something innate in the human being ?

Think of the cave paintings of cave lions and bear in Lascaux and Chauvet, for example, these creatures have always been totemic to a certain degree. However, I wholeheartedly agree that the affinity must be tempered with near constant caution and concentration.
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Indeed and I am not suggesting that it is some sort of personality defect :D
Only that someone who wants to be hands-on with large predators had better clear away the romantic cobwebs from their mind.
 
Jurek7 said:
My advice, as somebody who both helped in some nature societies and worked in IT:

Don't invest beforehand in biological studies etc. at all. Go to a nature protection society or a zoo in your city and ask to be hired half-time as an IT specialist. These organizations usually don't have too much money and would welcome an IT person better than they could normally afford.

Then you will rub shoulders with people who work with big cats, and may learn how the work looks like and, when you know them well, ask to take part in something. You can get to see lots of work which you otherwise could not.

Don't overplay your interest in cats, because a zoo director may think you are a dangerous idiot who will try to pet a tiger and have a major work accident.

Prepare, however, in advance. The reality is very much unlike TV shows. There is a 99% chance you will find that work with big cats is not your thing. Unlike programming, it is: very poorly paid, physically tough and unpleasant (anything from inspecting a rotten deer carcass at 1.AM in a thunderstorm to cleaning after a tiger with diarrhoea) and often menially repetitive. And above all, you usually have no or little direct contact with wild cats. In a zoo, you clean after them, but wild cats are normally wild. They are supposed to have their own lives without keepers interference. It is rare to have a hand-raised cat. In fieldwork, you may not even see a wild cat for a year.
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Sounds like excellent advice.
 
Zooplantman said:
It is not the Timothy Treadwells that concern me here. They are a doomed breed. It is the people who feel that intense special affinity with dangerous animals and often lose sight of the dangers. I can think of (and have known) enough keepers who thought they understood their charges and were maimed or killed. Think on these:
‘Lion Man’ Leon van Biljon killed by his own cats at safari lodge in South Africa
Two lions attack zookeeper near Hamburg | DW | 04.05.2019
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Stepping back from big cats these are the people in zoos who don't think they have to follow instructions or routines because of they believe they know everything, or who fail to observe changes in an animal. They lead to animals dying and escaping never mind the the danger to humans from dangerous animals.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
just read through the thread and I wasn't expecting you to be a zoo owner/founder at all. All I can say is wow !

In terms of the theming of the exhibition (such a fascinating subject matter) , the contribution to conservation in Brazil (I bet you would like to obtain a Bothrops insularis eventually , right? ), commitment to education , and even just having the courage to start it is very impressive and admirable indeed.
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Thank you. I hope I can continue and extend the exhibition in the new location. B. insularis would be lovely, indeed.

Thumbs up for Jurek7's advice.

Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
I agree, but wouldn't you agree that to a certain extent the affinity and salience with large (particularly mammalian) predators is something innate in the human being ?
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On this behalf, I can recommend David Quammen's entertaining book "Monsters of Man".

There are quite a bunch of people among the venomous snakekeepers, especially among the free-handlers, who show the behaviour @MRJ and @Zooplantman rightfully critique. I blame the reluctancy of the animals to waste their venom as one of the main reasons that there are no more serious incidents. However, one bad apple can ruin the whole batch for the rest:
German state plans dangerous-pet law after cobra escape | DW | 07.09.2019
 
Batto said:
Thank you. I hope I can continue and extend the exhibition in the new location. B. insularis would be lovely, indeed.

Thumbs up for Jurek7's advice.

On this behalf, I can recommend David Quammen's entertaining book "Monsters of Man".

There are quite a bunch of people among the venomous snakekeepers, especially among the free-handlers, who show the behaviour @MRJ and @Zooplantman rightfully critique. I blame the reluctancy of the animals to waste their venom as one of the main reasons that there are no more serious incidents. However, one bad apple can ruin the whole batch for the rest:
German state plans dangerous-pet law after cobra escape | DW | 07.09.2019
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I certainly hope you can too , as the concept of a venom exhibition with live animals is an excellent one. Will you get venemous mammals for exhibition too eventually?

B. Insularis is an incredible species and one I'm familiar with , but they dont make for the most active species and they tend to sort of hide away within their enclosures. I've observed one individual in captivity kill its prey and it is quite remarkable (and chilling) to see just how fast that venom works.

I read Quammen's book "Monsters of god" which I agree is an excellent read. If the title in German is "Monsters of man" then I kind of prefer it more in fact because of its more secular tone.

I think that the reluctancy to use venom just goes to show how restrained many of these snakes are and how they are very far from being the nightmarish killer stereotype that people tend to have of them.
 
Onychorhynchus coronatus said:
venom exhibition with live animals is an excellent one. Will you get venemous mammals for exhibition too eventually?
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At the moment, the aspect of venomous mammals is represented by an oversized vampire bat skull, which, from an educational point of view, works very well. In ideal circumstances and depending on the location, African hedgehogs, striped skunks, common vampire bats or a species of slow loris might be suitable candidates in the more or less far future. Maned rats and a male platypus are out of reach, while the relevant shrew species are interesting, but dubious in regard to the investment/visitor attraction ratio. As for poisonous birds, I've set my sight on European quail, common bronzewing and African spur-winged goose for the future. The relevant pitohui species, the red warbler or the ruffed grouse are out of my reach.

You're lucky to have seen B.insularis in person; I only know of very few institutions in Brazil legally keeping them. If you think that its venom is working quickly, wait till you see how fast a hungry inland taipan kills its prey when the bite hits vital organs.
You're correct - the title is Monsters of God, not of Man. Monsters of Man wouldn't have been the worst alternative, though. ;)
Producing venom (or poison) is often rather energy-consuming; that's why these animals "economise" its use - a fact I like to showcase in correlation with defensive behaviour (i.e. tail rattling, hooding etc.).
 
Batto said:
At the moment, the aspect of venomous mammals is represented by an oversized vampire bat skull, which, from an educational point of view, works very well. In ideal circumstances and depending on the location, African hedgehogs, striped skunks, common vampire bats or a species of slow loris might be suitable candidates in the more or less far future. Maned rats and a male platypus are out of reach, while the relevant shrew species are interesting, but dubious in regard to the investment/visitor attraction ratio. As for poisonous birds, I've set my sight on European quail, common bronzewing and African spur-winged goose for the future. The relevant pitohui species, the red warbler or the ruffed grouse are out of my reach.

You're lucky to have seen B.insularis in person; I only know of very few institutions in Brazil legally keeping them. If you think that its venom is working quickly, wait till you see how fast a hungry inland taipan kills its prey when the bite hits vital organs.
You're correct - the title is Monsters of God, not of Man. Monsters of Man wouldn't have been the worst alternative, though. ;)
Producing venom (or poison) is often rather energy-consuming; that's why these animals "economise" its use - a fact I like to showcase in correlation with defensive behaviour (i.e. tail rattling, hooding etc.).
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I think that of the species you mentioned , the slow loris and the vampire bat strike me as the most illustrative examples of the evolution of venom in mammals. Vampire bats have that added factor of their maligned reputation which makes them morbidly interesting for visitors while the loris is not only aesthetically appealing for visitors but also has such an interesting use and application of venom (and of course the coloration and pelage markings mimicking cobras).

Shame about shrews as they are very interesting little creatures, but from what I've read they are not the easiest species to keep anyway due to their metabolism / short lifespan / cryptic behaviour etc. In the wider Eulipotyphla order the most interesting species seems to me to be the Solenodon but , yes, obtaining and keeping that species is another impossibility.

I'm not so knowledgeable about venom in birds (other than it is often a byproduct of their diets), but I think that it is brilliant that you intend to keep species with relation to venom across taxonomic classes. Very interesting concept.

I am indeed lucky , as I have seen and continue to see B.insularis regularly and particularly the individual I have mentioned, a very beautiful species. True, a couple of institutions in Sao Paulo state do keep them , Instituto Butantan (which I would reccomend you to visit as it is an incredible place) keeping the largest colony and being most involved with the species and its habitat.

I wont go into too many details and will keep it vague for obvious reasons. The problem when it comes to the conservation of B.insularis and establishing several ex-situ breeding colonies in captivity is that a certain zoo based in the capital city of the state must necessarily improve on its interpersonal skills in terms of capacity and willingness to cooperate with other institutions for the common goal of the conservation of the species.
 
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