Isn't it strange now London zoo have lost 3 male gorillas in not that many years, I don't know, only worked with big cats mainly, but becomes a bit weird when all the females seem to thrive?That is heartbreaking news about Kumbuka. I felt I had a special connection with him while he was at Paignton (I'm sure I wasn't the only one) and he recognised me when I visited him twice at ZSL. I can't believe it
ZSL London Zoo ZSL London Zoo News 2019
- Thread starter Crowthorne
- Start date
It was all pretty clear. I wrote an article for the Bartlett Society to record its final days.
Includes the inexcusable cropping out of the King in a picture supposedly showing the King and Queen! It replaced a sign that was correct.
I didn't receive this; they are able to email me to remind me to pay my Fellows fee but not, apparently, with Fellows news. I found out through Facebook.
Perhaps has something to do with the background of available males, which is more restricted than females.
Orangs were previously successful; visitor perceptions of 'sadness' are not reflective of success.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, London Zoo’s gorillas have experienced more tragedy than the Kennedy’s.
Kumbuka was an impressive male I had the privilege of visiting him last time I was in London and I’m shocked to hear of his death at a young age.
With his two young offspring in the troop; let’s hope we don’t have a repeat of last time, where a new adult male was introduced before the incumbent offspring matured. The female offspring is five years old; the male four, so surely the troop can cope without a silverback for three years. After which the young male (aged seven) can leave the troop; and the young female (aged eight) can be safely introduced to the new male.
I was surprised to learn a few years ago, one of Kumbuka’s ‘wives’ was his grandmother, Zaire:
Jambo/Nandi > Zaire > Kamili > Kumbuka
Kumbuka was an impressive male I had the privilege of visiting him last time I was in London and I’m shocked to hear of his death at a young age.
With his two young offspring in the troop; let’s hope we don’t have a repeat of last time, where a new adult male was introduced before the incumbent offspring matured. The female offspring is five years old; the male four, so surely the troop can cope without a silverback for three years. After which the young male (aged seven) can leave the troop; and the young female (aged eight) can be safely introduced to the new male.
I was surprised to learn a few years ago, one of Kumbuka’s ‘wives’ was his grandmother, Zaire:
Jambo/Nandi > Zaire > Kamili > Kumbuka
I doubt whether ZSL would want to consider any other apes instead of gorillas because the exhibit would need so much remodelling. But I wonder if either of the breeding females might be pregnant again. It would be a good thing if Kumbuka could have another son or daughter posthumously, but it would postpone and complicate the eventual introduction of a new male.
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
It might have been pretty clear to you, but apparently visitors (who would not be members of the Bartett Society, I guess) were leaving with a different impression.
Yes they probably were but I responding to what you said and I am sure you would have realised what was going on if you had been there to read the signs. General visitor would have thought freshwater fish going to Whipsnade and Marine fish and corals to BUGS and not been aware of the massive downsize but it was very clear that the current aquarium was closing and, indeed, the first section had already been closed for some time. Equally, though, the general visitor would not have realised they were walking past dozens of boarded over exhibits unless they had visited in the 1980s.
It seems almost insensitive to start discussing the future after Kumbuka's shock death, but of course the future needs to be faced. They may indeed decide not to replace him immediately, to safeguard the two youngsters, and even more so if either of the breeding females are currently pregnant. If they play their cards right they could now keep Mjukuu's daughter as an additional future breeder. As far as a male is concerned, the problem with not adding a new one over a protracted period is the females may become stressed. Zaire in particular has acted very negatively(hair plucking etc) in the past to a silverback death. The best choice might be either an older quiet male, or a young subadult e.g. 8 years old or so, that wouldn't be big and strong enough to harm the youngsters and could grow into the group. Not a feisty young silverback. Either way its not ideal but I have no idea at present what they will do now.
Last edited:
They were almost too successful. Many young were bred. The problems were seen as visitor perception of them, coupled with being 'labour intensive' as far as housing them i.e. could not be kept as a single group. I doubt they will ever keep them again.
How receptive would the females be to an unrelated subadult male though? Any male not so old as to pose a threat (i.e. less than 10) wouldn’t have the presence to assert authority over the females. I don’t know the gorillas at London very well but I think you mentioned once Zaire is quite a strong willed female and that one of the previous silverbacks (Bobby?) was a small, weak male who had little control over the females.
Are the females off contraception? Mjuuku is a young female, who last gave birth five years ago; so I’d have expected her to have given birth by now if she wasn’t on contraception.
Interesting idea, but could get the current baby killed. It's a bit catch 22
Possibly but its an unknown until they actually try a new male.
This is the problem. Its true a young male would probably not be so well received by the adult females as a silverback- but he would be far less risky as an introduction to the two juveniles. Its a difficult choice as to which path they might take. (Its correct Bobby was not very dominant, but he had a very poor background.) I don't know the situation re contraception.
taun
Well-Known Member
Surely the youngsters are old enough that the females should be ready to conceive again that the youngster are not likely to be killed by a male to breed with the females, but they may not be independent enough to get out of the way when the male mates the female and might cause injury to youngsters.
I suppose it all hinges on if the females are pregnant so nothing if going to happen for at least a year.
Yes they're old enough to be safe from infanticide, but he might still take a dislike and try to eject them from the group, or bully them badly. Or he might accept them with no trouble... just depends on the individual and unfortunately only when its tried would the result be known.
Last edited:
The risk of a new male killing the youngsters just simply isn't worth taking, both from the group and ZSL point of view. They will have to stay without a male for a while and if one of the females is pregnant, even longer.
Incidentally, are there any plans to move the male tiger on? I hope so, as killing another female would be disastrous publicity!
Incidentally, are there any plans to move the male tiger on? I hope so, as killing another female would be disastrous publicity!