ZooChat Cup Group G: Burgers vs Taronga
- Thread starter CGSwans
- Start date
Well clearly Taronga is the winner here. Three species of monotreme for a start - those are worth a point each, so 3-0 for Taronga 
What's Burgers got?
What's Burgers got?
Not much at all, sadly.....
Aardvark
West Indian Manatee
Rodriguez Flying Fox
Seba's Short-tailed Bat
Swamp Wallaby
The only reason I've voted 2-1 Taronga rather than giving it a clean sweep is a) the two bat species and the aardvark are held in the Bush, which is the best tropical house I have visited and b) the manatees are in the Mangrove, which is equally excellent..... and given the fact that these are very subjective opinions based on just how much I like those two exhibits, I freely admit that Taronga probably does deserve a clean sweep
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Oh, that's a poor list. I was joking, of course, about giving Taronga 3-0 based solely on the monotremes - but seeing that list for Burgers then I am genuinely going to vote 3-0 for Taronga.
I haven't been there for ages, but apart for the echidnas and platypus, they have an excellent nocturnal house with all manner of other marsupials (quolls, gliders, etc) and at least some native rodents and bats; and elsewhere in the zoo they (probably obviously) have a collection of larger marsupials like macropods, koala, wombat, etc.
The only exotic "miscellanea" they have are Capybara, Goodfellow's Tree Kangaroo, and Long-beaked Echidna, but their native collection swamps Burgers' collection easily.
I haven't been there for ages, but apart for the echidnas and platypus, they have an excellent nocturnal house with all manner of other marsupials (quolls, gliders, etc) and at least some native rodents and bats; and elsewhere in the zoo they (probably obviously) have a collection of larger marsupials like macropods, koala, wombat, etc.
The only exotic "miscellanea" they have are Capybara, Goodfellow's Tree Kangaroo, and Long-beaked Echidna, but their native collection swamps Burgers' collection easily.
A couple of Taronga photos:
The Creatures of the Wollemi aviary which houses (apart from birds) Brush-tailed Rock Wallaby, Platypus, and Echidna:
The interior of the nocturnal house:
The Creatures of the Wollemi aviary which houses (apart from birds) Brush-tailed Rock Wallaby, Platypus, and Echidna:
The interior of the nocturnal house:
This match is a slam-dunk. Burgers' Zoo is a great facility, but it gets trounced by Taronga Zoo. I could count the number of miscellaneous mammals at Burgers on one hand, while Taronga is a zoo nerd's paradise for this particular category.
I'm voting 3-0 Taronga Zoo and that Sydney establishment is going to move ahead with 3 consecutive wins at the ZooChat World Cup. Wow!
I'm voting 3-0 Taronga Zoo and that Sydney establishment is going to move ahead with 3 consecutive wins at the ZooChat World Cup. Wow!
Yea, 3-0 Taronga for me. Not just for the platypus, but also for the long-beaked echidna.
Some further thoughts from me:
All but one of Burgers' miscellaneous animals are housed in The Bush or The Mangrove, but chosing this (i.e. "how they are kept") as a reason for giving a point to Burgers should be cancelled out by Taronga's "Creatures of the Wollemi". It is the same reason for both zoos.
None of Burgers' miscellaneous animals are poorly-housed, but neither are any of Taronga's - so again they cancel one another out.
However, Taronga's nocturnal house is an exhibit specifically for miscellaneous mammals. Apart for a few owls which have been kept in there, the inhabitants have always been monotremes, marsupials, rodents, and bats. So it is already well ahead of Burgers because that zoo doesn't have anything specifically for this group of mammals.
And really you're only left with the species list itself. Taronga is miles ahead of Burgers here. Taronga has way more species in total - I haven't got a current list but when I counted up their marsupials six years ago they had twenty species (see this post: Largest Collection of Macropods?), so their total for miscellaneous mammals would probably be around thirty or so. None of Burgers' species are particularly unusual in zoos either - probably the manatee is the most uncommon but even for that anyone on here could probably name a dozen zoos which keep them. Conversely, Taronga's collection includes relatively few species which are found outside Australia, and some of them are unusual or unique even within Australia (e.g. Long-beaked Echidna).
I'm not sure why anyone would vote for Burgers at all here.
All but one of Burgers' miscellaneous animals are housed in The Bush or The Mangrove, but chosing this (i.e. "how they are kept") as a reason for giving a point to Burgers should be cancelled out by Taronga's "Creatures of the Wollemi". It is the same reason for both zoos.
None of Burgers' miscellaneous animals are poorly-housed, but neither are any of Taronga's - so again they cancel one another out.
However, Taronga's nocturnal house is an exhibit specifically for miscellaneous mammals. Apart for a few owls which have been kept in there, the inhabitants have always been monotremes, marsupials, rodents, and bats. So it is already well ahead of Burgers because that zoo doesn't have anything specifically for this group of mammals.
And really you're only left with the species list itself. Taronga is miles ahead of Burgers here. Taronga has way more species in total - I haven't got a current list but when I counted up their marsupials six years ago they had twenty species (see this post: Largest Collection of Macropods?), so their total for miscellaneous mammals would probably be around thirty or so. None of Burgers' species are particularly unusual in zoos either - probably the manatee is the most uncommon but even for that anyone on here could probably name a dozen zoos which keep them. Conversely, Taronga's collection includes relatively few species which are found outside Australia, and some of them are unusual or unique even within Australia (e.g. Long-beaked Echidna).
I'm not sure why anyone would vote for Burgers at all here.
Per my post:
Personal fondness for those two particular exhibits - primarily the Mangrove given the manatees are front-and-centre of that exhibit, whilst the bats and aardvarks are but a sidenote in the Bush; you'll note that I otherwise say that Taronga would get a clean sweep from me, and implicitly my belief that anyone who doesn't have a particular fondness for those exhibits SHOULD vote 3-0 for Taronga.
Well clearly Taronga is the winner here. Three species of monotreme for a start - those are worth a point each, so 3-0 for Taronga
What's Burgers got?
Which species of long-beaked echidna?
I love the mantees and Aardvarks at Burger's but Taronga's list is too long and also has some VERY impresive species ( echidna, Platypus ) so its a 3 - 0 score for Tarongo ( sorry Burgers 
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Not much at all, sadly.....
Aardvark
West Indian Manatee
Rodriguez Flying Fox
Seba's Short-tailed Bat
Swamp Wallaby
The only reason I've voted 2-1 Taronga rather than giving it a clean sweep is a) the two bat species and the aardvark are held in the Bush, which is the best tropical house I have visited and b) the manatees are in the Mangrove, which is equally excellent..... and given the fact that these are very subjective opinions based on just how much I like those two exhibits, I freely admit that Taronga probably does deserve a clean sweep
It doesn't really help Burgers' Zoo's case if you ignore over half of the species that count for this challenge.
The complete list is as follows:
Aardvark
West Indian Manatee
Rodriguez Flying Fox
Lyles' flying fox
Seba's Short-tailed Bat
Swamp Wallaby
Capybara
Merriam's kangaroo rat
Hispid cotton rat
Cactus mouse
Variegated rock squirrel.
Nothing on the level of Platypus and Long-beaked echidna, but from a European perspective still a some high quality species in some very good enclosures.
Both Flying fox species as well as a bachelor group of the Short-tailed bat are free-ranging in the 1.3 hectare Burgers' Bush rainforest. Together with Masoala & Gondwana easily the best "enclosures" for these species.
The Aardvark also live in the Bush and have a non-spectacular medium-sized enclosure. The move from the old nocturnal house to the Bush did the Aardvark really well and in the past 30 years over 30 Aardvark were born in Arnhem and nowadays one-third of European aardvarks were born in Arnhem and their genes have even spread to the US (Detroit).
(enclosure continues somewhat further around the corner)
This is the separation enclosure, mostly used when there are young, currently connected to the main enclosure
The Capybara also live in the Bush and nowadays it is a successful breeding pair with a smallish land part, but a huge pool, as they can also fully use the former Manatee pool:
Most rodents are kept in the Desert and about 20 years ago Burgers' Zoo was the first zoo in Europe to hold Merriam's kangaroo rat, a species which is bred very regularly behind the scenes. The same goes for the Cactus mouse and Hispid cotton rats, which have large breeding groups behind the scenes. The Rock squirrels are just a pair and no young were born recently. All four N-American rodents are huge rarities in Europe.
Kangaroo rat enclosure
Hispid cotton rat enclosure
Rock squirrel enclosure (shows less than half)
Cactus mouse enclosure
The Swamp wallaby are kept in a large standard grassy enclosure and are regularly breeding. Back in 2003 Burgers' Zoo was one of the first zoos in Europe to switch from Red-necked wallaby to start with this species.
Back in 1989 Burgers' Zoo was also the 3rd zoo to keep Caribbean manatees in Europe, when 1.1 animals came from Nuremberg, a male from Artis soon followed, but only the brother-sister Nuremberg pair ever produced young. In 2017 the animals moved from the suboptimal enclosure in the Bush to the Mangrove, where they have a one million liter enclosure, shared with a large variety of Central-American cichlids and other fish. It is easily the best Manatee enclosure I have seen and based on pictures it also compares favorably to other enclosures in Europe (but Beauval may surpass it next year). With a new female arriving in 2017, the enclosure was apparently approved on as in 2019 a calf was born.
I won't pretend Burgers' Zoo can win from Platypus and Echidna, but it is not that bad either, 2-1 to Taronga for me.
Well that makes Burgers' species list sound better - but it is still only a third-ish of the number that Taronga has. I'm sticking with 3-0 for Taronga because I still think other reasons for voting are basically equivalent between the zoos.
Well, that's because I thought rodents had their own category and the Lyle's were gone
with their inclusion that makes my 2-1 vote even more justified.
Mmmm, yes it will be close but based in what I have heard and seen of the Equatorial Dome I think Beauval will have the edge next year...
Also, are the long-beaked echidnas Eastern, Western or Sir David's? Would be really cool if they were one of the last two...
It is a single Eastern; the last Western I know of in captivity died some years ago now. Sir David's has never even been seen alive to my knowledge, and may no longer be extant.