Malagasy Dwarf Hippo May Still Be Alive!

[Sarus Crane]

Just watched the Animal Planet show "Extinct Or Alive"' episode on the Malagasy Dwarf Hippo. In it, he and his team and found a skull (both cranium and mandible) in a swamp in perfect condition that was dated to be 200 or fewer years old. I bet there's still a few around!

 

[TeaLovingDave]

In it, he and his team and found a skull (both cranium and mandible) in a swamp in perfect condition that was dated to be 200 or fewer years old. I bet there's still a few around!

It quite probably did survive into relatively-recent historical times, but I very much doubt it is extant now.

 

[Cassidy Casuar]

I have a question; 'Laloumena', is apparently both a name of a Malagasy cryptid that was hippopotamus-like in appearance, and the Malagasy name for extant hippopotami. Does that mean that the name, 'Laloumena', was applied to the extant hippopotami after the extant hippopotami became known to the residents of Madagascar (similar to how the name, 'Hihi', was initially only used to refer to a mythical Japanese creature, and later also became the Japanese name for baboons)?

 

[Sarus Crane]

I have a question; 'Laloumena', is apparently both a name of a Malagasy cryptid that was hippopotamus-like in appearance, and the Malagasy name for extant hippopotami. Does that mean that the name, 'Laloumena', was applied to the extant hippopotami after the extant hippopotami became known to the residents of Madagascar (similar to how the name, 'Hihi', was initially only used to refer to a mythical Japanese creature, and later also became the Japanese name for baboons)?

Pretty sure that name was mentioned in the episode. It sounds very familiar.

 

[Chlidonias]

I have a question; 'Laloumena', is apparently both a name of a Malagasy cryptid that was hippopotamus-like in appearance, and the Malagasy name for extant hippopotami. Does that mean that the name, 'Laloumena', was applied to the extant hippopotami after the extant hippopotami became known to the residents of Madagascar (similar to how the name, 'Hihi', was initially only used to refer to a mythical Japanese creature, and later also became the Japanese name for baboons)?

Yes, that idea is straight from one of Shuker's books (and he probably got it from Heuvelmans or someone like that).

 

[Chlidonias]

In it, he and his team and found a skull (both cranium and mandible) in a swamp in perfect condition that was dated to be 200 or fewer years old. I bet there's still a few around!

200 years sounds really recent but in terms of the extinctions on Madagascar it may as well be 2000 years ago. The chances of the endemic hippo being still alive today is around zero.

How was the skull dated?

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

200 years sounds really recent but in terms of the extinctions on Madagascar it may as well be 2000 years ago. The chances of the endemic hippo being still alive today is around zero.

How was the skull dated?

I second that and would also underline that a record even if the dating of 200+ years is correct in no way is a justified indication to claim that the species is / might still be alive today. Think thylacine and its history and demise in the last century ….

For this claim it would need … show me decent camera shots and camera trap records of live specimens from this or any other very recent 2010's years. I have never in recent times heard or seen any stories from researchers in Madagascar to suggest the species still (might) range(s) on the Island, I am afraid (and yes I wish it were otherwise … Alas, for now a NO and I would like to be scientifically disproven if / for otherwise … thank you).

 

[Sarus Crane]

200 years sounds really recent but in terms of the extinctions on Madagascar it may as well be 2000 years ago. The chances of the endemic hippo being still alive today is around zero.

How was the skull dated?

The show didn't tell how they dated it. However the villagers that were interviewed saw the hippos in the 70's. They described an animal as big as a cow and even described how it would defecate (the exact same way a hippo would), meaning there is no other animal on Madagascar that would fit the villagers' descriptions. It also didn't help that the episode was filmed during Madagascar's dry season. The film crew often got heat stroke from the high temperatures and even had to take a day off to recuperate. The Malagasy Dwarf Hippo seems larger than the Pygmy Hippo.

Here's a photo of a skeleton shown in the show at the Malagasy Academy:

Here's Forrest and the skull he found in a swamp in western Madagascar:

 

[Coelacanth18]

However the villagers that were interviewed saw the hippos in the 70's. They described an animal as big as a cow and even described how it would defecate (the exact same way a hippo would), meaning there is no other animal on Madagascar that would fit the villagers' descriptions.

Is it possible that common hippos from the mainland ended up in Madagascar and that's what the villagers saw?

I would be skeptical of those carbon dating results unless they are corroborated by other researchers; even if their methods were sound, a very small amount of sample contamination could throw the date off by hundreds of years.

 

[Chlidonias]

The show didn't tell how they dated it. However the villagers that were interviewed saw the hippos in the 70's. They described an animal as big as a cow and even described how it would defecate (the exact same way a hippo would), meaning there is no other animal on Madagascar that would fit the villagers' descriptions. It also didn't help that the episode was filmed during Madagascar's dry season. The film crew often got heat stroke from the high temperatures and even had to take a day off to recuperate. The Malagasy Dwarf Hippo seems larger than the Pygmy Hippo.

I've been reading those sort of "eye-witness" accounts about Madagascan hippos for decades. It doesn't mean much because the interpretation of them really depends on what you want them to be describing. There have been loads of moa sightings in New Zealand over the last hundred years - even within the 21st Century - but that doesn't mean that there are any moa alive out there.

I would like to see some evidence of his claimed 200 years for the age of that skull - if that's a genuine result from a genuine dating method then there should be something solid published to back it up. If not, he's just like any other cryptozoologist passing around fables. (And, as an aside, that photo of him with the skull in the swamp looks as staged as it is possible to be).

Probably worth adding on to that: even if the 200 years was accurate that does not mean the hippos are still out there today.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Probably worth adding on to that: even if the 200 years was accurate that does not mean the hippos are still out there today.

The key point.

I think they quite possibly were present in the 19th century but are certainly gone now.

 

[Jurek7]

Hi,
Why to quote some sensationalist TV show and not check the internet?

One radiocarbon date of Malagasy hippo was from the period of European colonization. And thats it. Survival until today is very unlikely - even people in remote villages in Madagascar have mobile phones and would understand the value of passing the news, if they would catch a live hippo or a giant lemur.

 

[Chlidonias]

One radiocarbon date of Malagasy hippo was from the period of European colonization.

"Citation needed"...

 

[Jurek7]

A chronology for late prehistoric Madagascar. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Not very familiar with Madagascar , never been and likely never will go (though I find it fascinating) but from what I've read I think one of the problems of taking claims by local people at face value in this context is that the Malagasy culture is imbued and steeped with mythology and folk beliefs regarding fauna both real and imaginary (I remember reading that Durrell encountered this on several of his expeditions to the island , he had some hilarious annecdotes too).

So it may not be empirically / scientifically true that these animals still exist out there somewhere in the wilds but there may still be the remnants of millenia old folk beliefs that feed a strong heartfelt local belief / conviction in the existence of these creatures. Often this seems to manifest culturally in a liminal and supernatural sense which an extinct animal is believed to exist in a dimension with the long deceased ancestors and intrude or exercise some benevolent or sinister animistic power over the lives of people today.

I think that this anthropological data when combined with flawed carbon dating findings and the need for sensational tv production or equally sensational or contrarian academic papers can lead to a belief or wish that these animals are "still out there" when they are actually extinct.

 

[Giant Panda]

A chronology for late prehistoric Madagascar. - PubMed - NCBI

This specimen almost certainly did not originate from Madagascar. Based on its size, Burney et al. (2004) tentatively attributed it to Hippopotamus laloumena and the Mananjary Floodplain in eastern Madagascar. However, there's no published record of its origins and no specimen number. A more recent morphological study confirmed it was H. amphibius, probably imported for comparative purposes (see Faure et al. 2010, C R Palevol, 9, 155-162).

To my knowledge, witness accounts are the only evidence of Malagasy hippos surviving after European colonisation.

 

[Jurek7]

Well, another case when a sensational find was more announced that the retraction - here hidden in a minor French-language article. I wonder how many people fall for this.

About these reports of creatures resembling giant lemurs and hippos (or just a transported Indri and a water buffalo or a stray bushpig) - they were published in 1995. I wonder if they were ever followed and debunked - or followed several times, but not published.

 

[Fallax]

I was reading an article about the "kilopilopitsofy" which appears to be a hippo-like cryptid from Madagascar (a bunyip-esque situation perhaps?) and it mentioned an old man being asked to imitate the sounds of the kilopilopitsofy and it apparently sounded very similar to the sounds a hippo makes, however the man asserted he had never been to Africa and never saw a hippo before. The man claimed to have seen the kilopilopitsofy as recently as 1976.

I find it hard to believe the hippos survived until these times but it is certainly interesting.

If anyone is interested in reading: The Kilopilopitsofy, Kidoky, and Bokyboky: Accounts of Strange Animals from Belo-sur-mer, Madagascar, and the Megafaunal “Extinction Window”