Sumatran Rhino news thread

I am listening to it now. Interestingly he mentions having seen Javan rhino in the wild.

It's strange (or is it ? when considering the habitat that the Sumatran rhino inhabits ? ) how many of the rhino conservation specialists of the region have actually seen the Javan rhino at least once in the wild but never manage to glimpse wild Sumatran rhinos.

I remember that there was a time when the Javan rhino was seen by many as this strange cryptic and doomed species and the Sumatran rhino was perceived to be marginally more common and in better straits. Now with the proper population estimates the reality is found to be the reverse.

Way too much international conservation and media focus on the African rhino species IMO and very little towards the South East Asian species has to some extent brought this sad state of affairs about.
 
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Promising news about Sumatran rhino reproduction in Indonesia.

Indonesia plans IVF for recently captured Sumatran rhino - Conservation News | Mongabay

Indonesian authorities will be making their first attempt at in vitro fertilization of a Sumatran rhino.

The eggs for the IVF will come from Pahu, a lone female Sumatran rhino at the Kelian Lestari Sumatran Rhino Sanctuary (SRS) in West Kutai, East Kalimantan. The plan is to fertilize egg cells harvested from Pahu with sperm from one of two males at the Sumatran Rhino Sanctuary in Lampung, Sumatra.
 
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Promising news about Sumatran rhino reproduction in Indonesia.

Indonesia plans IVF for recently captured Sumatran rhino - Conservation News | Mongabay

Indonesian authorities will be making their first attempt at in vitro fertilization of a Sumatran rhino.

The eggs for the IVF will come from Pahu, a lone female Sumatran rhino at the Kelian Lestari Sumatran Rhino Sanctuary (SRS) in West Kutai, East Kalimantan. The plan is to fertilize egg cells harvested from Pahu with sperm from one of two males at the Sumatran Rhino Sanctuary in Lampung, Sumatra.
We can only hope that it will succeed.
 
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Promising news about Sumatran rhino reproduction in Indonesia.

Indonesia plans IVF for recently captured Sumatran rhino - Conservation News | Mongabay

Indonesian authorities will be making their first attempt at in vitro fertilization of a Sumatran rhino.

The eggs for the IVF will come from Pahu, a lone female Sumatran rhino at the Kelian Lestari Sumatran Rhino Sanctuary (SRS) in West Kutai, East Kalimantan. The plan is to fertilize egg cells harvested from Pahu with sperm from one of two males at the Sumatran Rhino Sanctuary in Lampung, Sumatra.

Somewhat (and tentatively) good news. However, it is worth bearing in mind that there is an undeniable and proverbial elephant (or should it be rhino ?) in the room: The continued lack of cooperation between Malaysia and Indonesia.

To me it appears that there are some strong vibes of inter-country competitiveness in this latest Indonesian attempt at IVF. Especially considering that the most recent Malaysian attempt at IVF has failed.

Sure , this competitiveness is currently being channeled "constructively" into conservation of the species but as long as it remains entrenched it will continue to impede inter-country collaboration and bode ill for the long-term conservation of the rhino.

The sad truth is that this is not even limited to countries and the way that they chose to go about conservation between States. The mantra of zero sum toxic competition and organizational cultures (as opposed to collaboration and sustainable cultural norms) are pervasive and encouraged in conservation on all levels; from zoos to academia to policy making to field research, and excuse my French, but it does **** all good for conservation interventions or indeed anything else!

After more than half a century we have had ample time and painful examples to learn the glaringly obvious drawbacks of this moronic way of "thinking" (if it can be termed as such) and group think by now. But we continue to actively perpetuate this bull**** while spouting platitudes to the contrary and myopically and studiously ignoring the inherent hypocrisy. It should come as no wonder at all that partly as a result of this we are failing to mitigate biodiversity loss and losing species (and conservationists!).
 
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1. Pahu suffers from dwarfism? That is news in itself and if correct that may be something of a set-back. Also can they nowadays estimate the age very precisely?

2. I thought ovulation was only induced by actual mating?- that is what has been implied until now. But here they are saying male scent e.g. urine may be sufficient to induce it. Change of tack?

3. 'the surrogate mother could be any captive female Sumatran rhino as long as she's not
undergoing a natural breeding programme' Currently that doesn't leave an awful lot of choice- a. Rosa? or b. the old Bina? both at Way Kambas.
 
1. Pahu suffers from dwarfism? That is news in itself and if correct that may be something of a set-back. Also can they nowadays estimate the age very precisely?

2. I thought ovulation was only induced by actual mating?- that is what has been implied until now. But here they are saying male scent e.g. urine may be sufficient to induce it. Change of tack?

3. 'the surrogate mother could be any captive female Sumatran rhino as long as she's not
undergoing a natural breeding programme' Currently that doesn't leave an awful lot of choice- a. Rosa? or b. the old Bina? both at Way Kambas.

Apparently , it is an induced ovulator. I suspect that the argument for using male scent / urine may be more of a hope that it will work more than anything else.

Also it seems that this method rather conveniently circumvents the need to engage with the Malaysians.
 
It's strange (or is it ? when considering the habitat that the Sumatran rhino inhabits ? ) how many of the rhino conservation specialists of the region have actually seen the Javan rhino at least once in the wild but never manage to glimpse wild Sumatran rhinos.

I remember that there was a time when the Javan rhino was seen by many as this strange cryptic and doomed species and the Sumatran rhino was perceived to be marginally more common and in better straits. Now with the proper population estimates the reality is found to be the reverse.

How? Javan Rhinos have no captive population, have a lower population overall and are only located in one location. Sumatran Rhinos have a larger population, a captive population and are found in the wild in several places.

Not saying your incorrect, I would just like you to elaborate on this point.

I think we can all agree that both species are getting dangerously close to the point of no return.

Also, I agree that the lack of cooperation between Malaysia and Indonesia is disgusting. The likelihood that the Sumatran Rhino will become extinct due to a trivial political disagreement is almost comical.
 
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How? Javan Rhinos have no captive population, have a lower population overall and are only located in one location. Sumatran Rhinos have a larger population, a captive population and are found in the wild in several places.

The Javan Rhino population, while small, is stable while the Sumatran Rhino population is crashing hard. The main issue with the Javans is that they're reached carrying capacity in Ujung Kulon and therefore the population simply can't grow any larger. With Sumatran Rhinos, yeah they have multiple populations but animals are so isolated from each other that they're not coming into contact for breeding.

~Thylo
 
How? Javan Rhinos have no captive population, have a lower population overall and are only located in one location. Sumatran Rhinos have a larger population, a captive population and are found in the wild in several places.

Not saying your incorrect, I would just like you to elaborate on this point.

I think we can all agree that both species are getting dangerously close to the point of no return.

Also, I agree that the lack of cooperation between Malaysia and Indonesia is disgusting. The likelihood that the Sumatran Rhino will become extinct due to a trivial political disagreement is almost comical.

I think the comment above mine from ThylacineAlive succintly sums up the issue facing both of these rhino species and why the Sumatran is currently at greater risk.

Again , the Javan rhinoceros is indeed in dire straits , particular as you said because the population is limited to just one metapopulation location with limited ability of dispersal and therefore does have a vulnerability to stochastic events.

I'm not suggesting that it isn't at risk of extinction , far from it, and I agree that it is also a species whose conservation should be of top concern.

However, there is currently a stability with the Javan rhino that is just not present in with the Sumatran rhino.
 
I think the comment above mine from ThylacineAlive succintly sums up the issue facing both of these rhino species and why the Sumatran is currently at greater risk.

Again , the Javan rhinoceros is indeed in dire straits , particular as you said because the population is limited to just one metapopulation location with limited ability of dispersal and therefore does have a vulnerability to stochastic events.

I'm not suggesting that it isn't at risk of extinction , far from it, and I agree that it is also a species whose conservation should be of top concern.

However, there is currently a stability with the Javan rhino that is just not present in with the Sumatran rhino.

**Typo: I meant to write "limited to just one population", the "meta" wasn't needed, as with the Javan rhino it is a single-population not a sub-population of a larger whole.
 
Somewhat (and tentatively) good news. However, it is worth bearing in mind that there is an undeniable and proverbial elephant (or should it be rhino ?) in the room: The continued lack of cooperation between Malaysia and Indonesia.

Also, I agree that the lack of cooperation between Malaysia and Indonesia is disgusting. The likelihood that the Sumatran Rhino will become extinct due to a trivial political disagreement is almost comical.

Whilst I completely agree with the sentiment and think the attitudes of both nations is pretty disgraceful (but hardly surprising), I think we have a tendency to overstate the importance of Malaysia's involvement here. The reality is they have one rhino left. There are none in the wild. Sumatran rhinos are extinct in Malaysia. Whilst Iman's contribution should be absolutely welcomed and is significant if you consider the few rhinos in captivity, her imminent contribution is not really going to make or break the comeback of the species.

In my opinion the rhinos fate rests with Indonesia, and if they act upon capturing the remaining wild rhinos or not.
 
Whilst I completely agree with the sentiment and think the attitudes of both nations is pretty disgraceful (but hardly surprising), I think we have a tendency to overstate the importance of Malaysia's involvement here. The reality is they have one rhino left. There are none in the wild. Sumatran rhinos are extinct in Malaysia. Whilst Iman's contribution should be absolutely welcomed and is significant if you consider the few rhinos in captivity, her imminent contribution is not really going to make or break the comeback of the species.

In my opinion the rhinos fate rests with Indonesia, and if they act upon capturing the remaining wild rhinos or not.

I agree with you , but I would say that we (collectively: the media , the conservation community, zoos , Nation states) understate the responsibility of the administrations both Nations to get their **** together (which considering that they have had four decades they have had ample time to do) with regard to conserving the species.

I know it is easy to critique conservation and say what we would do differently if we were in the shoes of those making the big decisions in terms of conservation. But if I was part of the Indonesian effort at conserving the species I would be working frantically , losing sleep and on the verge of a nervous breakdown to make sure that my name didn't go down in the history books as being inextricably linked with the epitah of an extinct species and last of its genus.

Maybe this is part of the problem , that there are literally too many faceless bureaucrats who due to anonymity feel themselves to be removed and immune or somehow safe from judgement ? Perhaps what is needed is for the parties who have been consistently holding up the progress and success of this conservation intervention to be publically named and held to account or otherwise to some extent put under pressure by the wider world ?

Yes , it is an aggressive approach and I am only entertaining it hypothetically/ philosophically but lets be honest shame is a powerful catalyst for change when it comes to institutions and if we lose this species then both countries will face a truly enormous amount of shame anyway.
 
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Yes , it is an aggressive approach and I am only entertaining it hypothetically/ philosophically but lets be honest shame is a powerful catalyst for change when it comes to institutions and if we lose this species then both countries will face a truly enormous amount of shame anyway.

Agree. Unfortunately the media report major extinctions on page 5. I remember this immense despair overcoming me around 2007 when the Yangtzee river dolphin was declared extinct. It was only in part because of the dolphins extinction (i'd been coming to terms with this for years). The biggest reason was that there was such little fuss about it. Here was an animal right up there on the public charisma list (a dolphin) and in my adult life the first time a large mammal species was declared extinct. When nobody cared I remember thinking "well if the world doesn't give a **** when a dolphin goes extinct, then nothing else much has a chance".

I am am eternally frustrated how (and this was mentioned by yourself earlier) little attention IRF and other conservation organisations speak the facts on the situation regarding sumatrans. Yes they post a lot of pictures of the Ratu and her calves but there is total lack of detail year after year regarding their operations and what they are doing. To me this is totally counter productive and makes zero sense. There is no need for secrecy. If I was on the board of the IRF (or any other NGO working with the rhinos) I would be making press releases monthly about their attempts to breed the species at the sanctuary, about long term plans, about the animals in the wild... everything. Give us micro updates. How is it the Northern white rhino gets more news that the Sumatrans? Because they talk about it. I would be doing everything possible to make people around the world realise there is such a thing as a sumatran rhino and how perilous the situation is. Because people the public don't care about something they don't know exists or are told they should care about. And Indonesia isn't going to feel any shame unless we make the Sumatran rhino the next giant panda.

Lastly, just on a personal note: Sponsor a Sumatran rhino! Trust me, it's helps with the despair late at night and they give you a nice photo to stick on your fridge. We have Rosa.
 
Agree. Unfortunately the media report major extinctions on page 5. I remember this immense despair overcoming me around 2007 when the Yangtzee river dolphin was declared extinct. It was only in part because of the dolphins extinction (i'd been coming to terms with this for years). The biggest reason was that there was such little fuss about it. Here was an animal right up there on the public charisma list (a dolphin) and in my adult life the first time a large mammal species was declared extinct. When nobody cared I remember thinking "well if the world doesn't give a **** when a dolphin goes extinct, then nothing else much has a chance".

I am am eternally frustrated how (and this was mentioned by yourself earlier) little attention IRF and other conservation organisations speak the facts on the situation regarding sumatrans. Yes they post a lot of pictures of the Ratu and her calves but there is total lack of detail year after year regarding their operations and what they are doing. To me this is totally counter productive and makes zero sense. There is no need for secrecy. If I was on the board of the IRF (or any other NGO working with the rhinos) I would be making press releases monthly about their attempts to breed the species at the sanctuary, about long term plans, about the animals in the wild... everything. Give us micro updates. How is it the Northern white rhino gets more news that the Sumatrans? Because they talk about it. I would be doing everything possible to make people around the world realise there is such a thing as a sumatran rhino and how perilous the situation is. Because people the public don't care about something they don't know exists or are told they should care about. And Indonesia isn't going to feel any shame unless we make the Sumatran rhino the next giant panda.

Lastly, just on a personal note: Sponsor a Sumatran rhino! Trust me, it's helps with the despair late at night and they give you a nice photo to stick on your fridge. We have Rosa.

Actually , I am glad you mentioned the baiji as it often crosses my mind in terms of the situation facing the Sumatran rhino and I agree with you , what a tragedy that it went extinct. I also remember reading a brief article at the time about the species being declared extinct and feeling mystified and unnerved that more had not been done to mitigate this. I later read the book about the species by Samuel Turvey too and felt an even stronger sense of nausea about the whole thing.

On the one hand the situation of the rhino is made more complex by the fact that it is now two Nation states that must act decisively to conserve the species whereas the baiji was contingent on a single Centralized communist authority ( but also regional party comitees etc.). But sadly the parallel is that in both situations there was and is a long bureaucratic chain which stymies and impedes progress combined with a historic lack of interest and political will to save the species.

In regards to the media bias towards covering the plight of the African rhinos , I just do not understand it whatsoever, and frankly I've always thought that the whole African bias present in conservation is totally absurd. For example , there has been a ridiculous amount of articles , news reports and documentaries about the demise of the Northern White rhino which are merely a subspecies. Then all the advertisements , campaigns , and endless talk of the rhino horn crisis of black and white rhinos in Africa and all that macho footage of special forces , ex marines and "black mamba" rangers running around with guns like some kind of cringeworthy bad and cheesy B movie.

** Sorry to anyone offended , I dont mean to denigrate efforts to conserve rhinos in Africa. But a while back when I had a facebook page and had subscribed to a number of conservation sites that is all I would see in terms of conservation news , tattooed babes who looked like Suicide girl models and tough guy ex marines decked out in fatigues and waving guns around and stating that it was their gung-ho mission to "save the rhino"**

I couldn't help but think WTF "is this even conservation?" because it all seemed to be about THEM and their embarking on some kind of glamorous ego trip in Africa , just looking at themselves in the mirror. Meanwhile there is a quietly desperate situation of another rhino species just fading out that was an equally noble cause on the other side of the world , undereported , underfunded and underappreciated.

To be honest , throughout it all my thoughts have continually returned to the Sumatran and Javan rhinos and a recurring thought of mine has been "why on earth is no one talking about what is going on with rhinos in Asia?". The Sumatran is the only extant species of an entire genus which will vanish from the earth once it is gone. To me , there is no question as to which is the greater tragedy yet how many people out there even know that the Sumatran rhino exists ?
 
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I am am eternally frustrated how (and this was mentioned by yourself earlier) little attention IRF and other conservation organisations speak the facts on the situation regarding sumatrans. Yes they post a lot of pictures of the Ratu and her calves but there is total lack of detail year after year regarding their operations and what they are doing.

I have to agree. All that is ever reported from Way Kambas is the 'success story' of the birth of the two calves. Apart from that there is virtually nothing. Never any details of what else is happening. Efforts to get Rosa to breed? Why doesn't she? Are any other wild rhinos being targeted for capture? Future plans? There is virtually a news blackout on what is currently happening in Sumatra. Only the news about fertilization attempts and delays because of political divisions, and deaths, seems to get any coverage. The Sumatran rhino's plight never makes the international news headlines either, as has happened several times with the Northern White rhino.
 
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I have to agree. All that is ever reported from Way Kambas is the 'success story' of the birth of the two calves. Apart from that there is virtually nothing. Never any details of what else is happening. Efforts to get Rosa to breed? Why doesn't she? Are any other wild rhinos being targeted for capture? Future plans? There is virtually a news blackout on what is currently happening in Sumatra. Only the news about fertilization attempts and delays because of political divisions, and deaths, seems to get any coverage. The Sumatran rhino's plight never makes the international news headlines either, as has happened several times with the Northern White rhino.

I suspect at least some of the lack of coverage or information about what is going on with this conservation intervention may be an intentional PR effort on their part to keep what is going on secret from the wider press and public. Though I would love to hear more about the situation facing the species to some extent I can't really blame their reluctance and mistrust of the media.

I remember hearing in the podcast (The one that I posted somewhere on this thread) that a previous attempt to capture and translocate a wild Sumatran rhino ended up in the animal dying while it was being administed anesthesia which apparently ended up garnering some heavy criticism in the media. These kind of deaths during the translocation or capture of animals do happen and so are not unexpected considering that the use of anesthesia on any large mammal (even those in zoos or sanctuaries), let alone a wild one under challenging field conditions is a notoriously risky endeavour.

Even so , the death of any individual of this species is a loss and when the press pick up on it (That is if they even bother , because these are not the beloved media darlings , the African rhinos) instead of actually objectively reviewing the situation they typically immiediately begin to heap criticism on conservation groups. This in turn generates greater political pressures and risk aversion in supporting future interventions and also feed into the moronic "Animal rights" extremist narratives of non intervention / "leaving nature alone" which can negatively affect the popular support for conservation which is key for success.

Moreover, I think that much of the secrecy regarding current and future activities may be explained as pertaining to the need to keep certain details about places such as field sites and target areas out of the hands/ sights of poaching gangs which are rife across the region and highly organized networks.
 
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I suspect at least some of the lack of coverage or information about what is going on with this conservation intervention may be an intentional PR effort on their part to keep what is going on secret from the wider press and public. Though I would love to hear more about the situation facing the species to some extent I can't really blame their reluctance and mistrust of the media.

I remember hearing in the podcast (The one that I posted somewhere on this thread) that a previous attempt to capture and translocate a wild Sumatran rhino ended up in the animal dying while it was being administed anesthesia which apparently ended up garnering some heavy criticism in the media. These kind of deaths during the translocation or capture of animals do happen and so are not unexpected considering that the use of anesthesia on any large mammal (even those in zoos or sanctuaries), let alone a wild one under challenging field conditions is a notoriously risky endeavour.

Even so , the death of any individual of this species is a loss and when the press pick up on it (That is if they even bother , because these are not the beloved media darlings , the African rhinos) instead of actually objectively reviewing the situation they typically immiediately begin to heap criticism on conservation groups. This in turn generates greater political pressures and risk aversion in supporting future interventions and also feed into the moronic "Animal rights" extremist narratives of non intervention / "leaving nature alone" which can negatively affect the popular support for conservation which is key for success.

Moreover, I think that much of the secrecy regarding current and future activities may be explained as pertaining to the need to keep certain details about places such as field sites and target areas out of the hands/ sights of poaching gangs which are rife across the region and highly organized networks.
What you say makes a lot of sense. Even if a blackout on the remaining wild rhinos may be desirable for the reasons you say, I would still like to hear more news from Way Kambas for example. Principally what efforts are being made to get Rosa to breed? As one(?) of the only two currently viable females, what are the problems involved to get her breeding? She is hardly ever mentioned outside of rollcalls of the rhinos that are resident there.
 
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What you say makes a lot of sense. Even if a blackout on the remaining wild rhinos may be desirable for the reasons you say, I would still like to hear more news from Way Kambas for example. Principally what efforts are being made to get Rosa to breed? As one(?) of the only two currently viable females, what are the problems involved to get her breeding? She is hardly ever mentioned outside of rollcalls of the rhinos that are resident there.

Yes , I agree , I would also like to hear more about Way Kambas and the individual rhinos kept there. Perhaps they have social media accounts ? or would respond to messaging ?

Afterall keeping up good outreach with people interested in conservation is always a high priority with NGO's. I bet they would respond well to any questions about their work.
 
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